WINNIPEG | Portage Place Redevelopment

[Alexander 90]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

Yeah with the recent revelations on CBC, it either signals that Starlight was looking for a guaranteed “no” to wiggle out of this plan due to the pandemic’s effects on the retail landscape (or other reasons), or they are shady as fuck like the last guys (Fortress).

You are 100% correct.

[bomberjet]

Hey I can redevelop Portage Place. All I need is $400 million from you folks. Let's go!!

Starlight can pound sand.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

Yeah with the recent revelations on CBC, it either signals that Starlight was looking for a guaranteed “no” to wiggle out of this plan due to the pandemic’s effects on the retail landscape (or other reasons), or they are shady as fuck like the last guys (Fortress).

My thoughts exactly. When I read about the last minute demands by Starlight I thought it sounded like a "poison pill" move.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

My libertarian friends won't like this but short of leaving steaming piles of rubble in Downtown Winnipeg the three levels of government need to lead a development plan. Handing over billions to would-be developers is getting us nowhere. Create a Crown and invest that way. Affordable housing and general mixed-use development can be the core principles. Create jobs, create economic activity, collect taxes.

IMO It's going to need some form of government involvement coupled with some private $$ from locals who want to see downtown improvements as much as they want to see a positive bottom line. I'm not asking private developers to deliberately take a loss, but perhaps be willing to take less of a profit than they normally would expect before starting a development project?

Honestly I am speaking from ignorance here...what level of profit from a project is usually expected before a development project moves forward? 100%? 1000%? Can anyone educate me on this?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by pspeid

IMO It's going to need some form of government involvement coupled with some private $$ from locals who want to see downtown improvements as much as they want to see a positive bottom line. I'm not asking private developers to deliberately take a loss, but perhaps be willing to take less of a profit than they normally would expect before starting a development project?

Honestly I am speaking from ignorance here...what level of profit from a project is usually expected before a development project moves forward? 100%? 1000%? Can anyone educate me on this?

Idk exactly but it's gonna be much less than 100%. Wouldn't be surprised if it's no more than 20

[esquire]

At what point do developers require so much in the form of grants and loans that it just makes more sense for government to do it themselves? What exactly is Starlight bringing to the table here?

As an aside, it feels like Portage Place is like our Olympic Stadium. Huge, cost a fortune, never really worked properly, now figuring out what to do with it is an expensive puzzle with seemingly no right answer.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Hey I can redevelop Portage Place. All I need is $400 million from you folks. Let's go!!

Starlight can pound sand.

Wait, I want to build a new house, I just need $900 K, I promise to add a room with bathroom in the garage for a low income tenant, now give me the funding all levels of govt.!

oh wait..... I also don't want to pay property taxes on the property for the next 30 years!

[thurmas]

At this point would it just be cheaper to tear it down and replace it with a sobeys and a couple of condo towers and some low income apartments to fill the gap? There is really zero need for retail in the downtown anymore

[DirtWednesday]

Sell PP to Amazon. They're gobbling up malls in the US already anyway.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-...rs-11596992863

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by thurmas

At this point would it just be cheaper to tear it down and replace it with a sobeys and a couple of condo towers and some low income apartments to fill the gap? There is really zero need for retail in the downtown anymore

Build a bunch of high end towers everywhere downtown and change it forever. Retail to some extent might return at some point.

Introduce the low income units later, there's enough already. That's the only thing that will ever work in this city. Current trajectory for retail seems grim. Definitely need WAY more people living downtown. That's the only fix.

[WinCitySparky]

Tear the whole mall down and market the land for residential towers and other miscellaneous?....I kinda like it.

Discuss.

[Wpgstvsouth94]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Build a bunch of high end towers everywhere downtown and change it forever. Retail to some extent might return at some point.

Introduce the low income units later, there's enough already. That's the only thing that will ever work in this city. Current trajectory for retail seems grim. Definitely need WAY more people living downtown. That's the only fix.

I agree with you. It’s time Winnipeg starts getting up with the rest of the world. Luxury condos 50-80 floors all around downtown would transform this city forever and drive the useless scum right out.

[bomberjet]

Tear down the atrium parts, even along the interior mall corridor, and convert into residential. That would probably be the easiest option.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Tear down the atrium parts, even along the interior mall corridor, and convert into residential. That would probably be the easiest option.

Hey theres an idea. I wish the area north of the mall weren't so blighted, it might stand a fighting chance if things were better there

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

Tear the whole mall down and market the land for residential towers and other miscellaneous?....I kinda like it.

Discuss.

How does this resolve the issue? How is the land more attractive to private development? I think we've seen how that goes with all the vacant land (including surface lots) in Downtown.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by pspeid

IMO It's going to need some form of government involvement coupled with some private $$ from locals who want to see downtown improvements as much as they want to see a positive bottom line. I'm not asking private developers to deliberately take a loss, but perhaps be willing to take less of a profit than they normally would expect before starting a development project?

Honestly I am speaking from ignorance here...what level of profit from a project is usually expected before a development project moves forward? 100%? 1000%? Can anyone educate me on this?

Would really depend on how the financing is structured whether from government, banks, other lenders. The developer is hoping for positive cash flow immediately or within a few years, meaning the cash they bring in from tenants and other revenue streams outstrips their costs including finance costs.

In a lot of these deals with the government the debt ends up getting written down, basically forgiven. I think that was the long-term play here. Get some cash flow out of the place initially and basically move on. Appears to have been a giant bait and switch even before the deal closed.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Build a bunch of high end towers everywhere downtown and change it forever. Retail to some extent might return at some point.

Introduce the low income units later, there's enough already. That's the only thing that will ever work in this city. Current trajectory for retail seems grim. Definitely need WAY more people living downtown. That's the only fix.

I've been saying that for 30+ years. Probably closer to 40. Downtown as a retail destination's days were numbered by the time I was born. Over the years, all the city has ever done is keep on trying to jam that square peg into that round hole. The crown on that sovereign was Portage Place yet the jewel has always been the Forks.

Portage Place failed not simply because it was downtown. It failed because residential development was rarely encouraged and there's been so little. It also didn't help that it was a nice place to get stabbed (oh, just drop it for those who are going to run in to the rescue of PP. It was a hangout for hoodrats from nearly the get go and that's never been a secret) But the root of the problem has always been that there simply weren't enough people in the core to support the mall and the city never encouraged more. Now it's too little, too late.

I agree with the poster on the previous page who suggested that we should create a crown corporation who's sole purpose is to densify the core with various projects. The only issue I foresee is that without a sort of quality control, such a corporation would wind up building 20 storey slum houses that would be destroyed in no time, similar to "projects" in the States.

[thurmas]

I would say rezone portage place residential and make it condos and maybe have the lower level a few retailers and a sobeys or save on foods, make the bay next door a casino and hotel like regina did with their rail station and make the old tribune site some pubs and condos once jets can have fans again

[davequanbury]

Originally Posted by Wpgstvsouth94

I agree with you. It’s time Winnipeg starts getting up with the rest of the world. Luxury condos 50-80 floors all around downtown would transform this city forever and drive the useless scum right out.

Care to elaborate oh your 'useless scum' comment? Who are you talking about?

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by davequanbury

Care to elaborate oh your 'useless scum' comment? Who are you talking about?

Pretty sure he’s talking about indigenous people, refugees and immigrants.