NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[newyorker]

At which site(1-8 ) would the Garden City Twin Supertalls be located on??

Is it even a part of the currently proposed Empire Station District?

[mrnyc]

[QUOTE=BuildThemTaller;9153475]Wow! This would be awesome. I love the idea of a bright, open, glassy MSG with a huge map on the ceiling, too.

The massing of these towers reminds me a lot of the recently-completed NEMA Chicago designed by Raphael Vionly. There's a similar design going up in Detroit, the Hudson Block. It was originally planned as the shorter of two twins but the second has not been developed yet. My sincere hope is that they avoid as much blue glass as possible here in this part of the city. There's way too much of that already.



^ i like my squat vinoly 61 ninth a block over from us, its a lowrise version of 432 park downtown except offices instead of residential. and starbucks reserve lol.


he would not be a terrible choice for these superduper talls.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yes, please. This would be fantastic.

And even the community board NIMBYs are on-board. Probably because the neighborhood is almost entirely non-residential.

I like the idea of MSG being more centrally located, but too much would need to happen too soon for this to be even taken seriously.

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller

Wow! This would be awesome. I love the idea of a bright, open, glassy MSG with a huge map on the ceiling, too.

The massing of these towers reminds me a lot of the recently-completed NEMA Chicago designed by Raphael Vionly.

If MSG were to move, that would open up the opportunity to create something nice over Penn Station. We wouldn't be stuck with that Garden dome. As office towers, the massing on those sites wouldn't end up that way. What was shown at the community board meeting is really just a vision of what could be done, not a current proposal.



• Video Link

Originally Posted by newyorker

At which site(1-8 ) would the Garden City Twin Supertalls be located on??

Is it even a part of the currently proposed Empire Station District?

We're talking sites 6,7, and 8. The portion of the block (lower left of the pic) not included was originally included in the governor's plan, but not currently.











The area outlined in yellow is where their idea would fit...

[newyorker]

With Garden City Twin Supertalls being ~1600-1700 ft and located at sites 6-8,

would site 2 still be location for the tallest tower??

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by newyorker

With Garden City Twin Supertalls being ~1600-1700 ft and located at sites 6-8,

would site 2 still be location for the tallest tower??

That Garden City thing is not a real proposal, but an alternate vision. Even still, it doesn't have any definite heights or designs. Neither does the current Empire Station proposal.

For comparison, the Garden City proposal has about 6 msf of office space, and 1.2 msf of hotel and residential space. The Empire Station proposal currently has about 7.3 msf of office and retail space on those same blocks, and 6.3 msf on site 2.

[NYguy]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/n...high-line.html

$60 Million High Line Expansion to Connect Park to Moynihan Train Hall
Gov. Andrew Cuomo will propose a 1,200-foot elevated pathway that will lead to the new Penn Station development, to be financed by public and private funds.


By Mihir Zaveri and Daniel E. Slotnik
Jan. 11, 2021

For more than a decade, the High Line, an elevated park that stretches for nearly a mile and half through the West Side of Lower Manhattan, has been a symbol of ambitious urban renewal: a sleek, tree-lined walkway created from an old run-down rail line that cuts through once-industrial neighborhoods.

Before the pandemic, it had become a major New York destination for residents and out-of-town visitors alike, drawing about eight million people in 2019.

And now, the park, which showed how the city could reinvent itself and reimagine decaying spaces, is to be expanded.

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said on Sunday that the High Line will be extended to connect to the newly opened Moynihan Train Hall, a project that he said help spur development in the surrounding neighborhoods and boost an economy facing a deep crisis because of the pandemic.

The new link, officials said, will provide an alternative way to access the new station, which serves Amtrak and the Long Island Railroad. It’s part of a broader package, including the new train hall and improvements sought for Pennsylvania Station, that seeks to improve the experience of taking mass transportation into and out of New York City.

A 1,200-foot elevated walkway will connect the existing High Line at 30th Street to a pedestrian path at Manhattan West, a mixed used development adjacent to the train hall.

State officials could not provide a specific timeline on when construction on the expansion would start or when they expected it to be complete.

The state is also eyeing another possible expansion of the High Line to connect it north to Pier 76 on West 38th Street, where Mr. Cuomo wants to turn a Police Department tow pound into another park. The existing High Line travels 1.45 miles from 34th Street south to Gansevoort Street in the Meatpacking District.

State officials estimate the connector between the High Line and Moynihan Train Hall would cost about $60 million, though that figure could change.

Mr. Cuomo said one-third of it would be financed by the state; another third would come from Brookfield Properties, the developer of the mixed-use development next to the train hall; and the remainder would come from nonprofit groups and other private organizations.

[chris08876]

That's great, the high line extension. The potential of this neighborhood is incredible.

[BVictor1]

Does anyone know the rough acreage of the footprint of the Empire District?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

Does anyone know the rough acreage of the footprint of the Empire District?

Ooohh, I would have to do the math (or maybe someone else ) But are you referring to just the development sites, or the area as a whole?



Meanwhile, along with the final scope of work, the response to comments on the draft scope was issued. I grabbed a few that I thought was relevant to some of the discussion here...


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[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Ooohh, I would have to do the math (or maybe someone else ) But are you referring to just the development sites, or the area as a whole?

Whatever is within the development boundary I guess...

There's a possible proposal in Chicago that involved decking over a railyard and that'll be a 32 acre site.

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dept...e-central.html


I'm trying to compare site sizes and densities.....

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by chris08876

That's great, the high line extension. The potential of this neighborhood is incredible.

it really is.. they need to extend it across 12th to connect to the hudson river greenway and the 39th street ferry terminal (EDIT: i was so excited about the manhattan west extension that I didnt even notice the 12th street crossing was already right there in the same rendering)

then they ought to add a northern branch to the proposed extention, branching off at manhattan west and running above the lincoln tunnel appraoch ramps toward the port authority terminal, and connecting to the new port authority terminal redevelopment

and then from there, perhaps run it 1 block east down 42nd street and connect it to times square, and maybe keep extending it down 42nd to bryant park and then to grand central (you could do something interesting where it has to cross the Park Ave viaduct), and then keep going, around the UN and finally connect to the east river greenway

then if you wanna get really crazy then you could branch off at the UN and go north a couple blocks and then build a bridge to roosevelt island, and then another bridge to long island city

you could eventually build an entire network of highlines running mostly above streets but occasionally between buildings and through the centers of city blocks. it could just be a new york thing.. as iconic as the subways

[NYguy]

^ The High Line connection to Hudson River Park is needed, and was a no brainer. We’ve talked about having some type of connection to Manhattan West as well. Now it looks like we’ll get both. But I don’t know that we want to see it spreading across Manhattan all willy-nilly. That’s not what New York is about.

Originally Posted by BVictor1

Whatever is within the development boundary I guess...

There's a possible proposal in Chicago that involved decking over a railyard and that'll be a 32 acre site.

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dept...e-central.html


I'm trying to compare site sizes and densities.....

Hudson Yards (just the rails) is 28 acres. This should be close to that if you remove Moynihan from the boundaries. The exact number will have to be looked at. Probably somewhere in the low 30’s.




• Video Link

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by NYguy

That’s not [yet] what New York is about.

there, i fixed it for you

this could be a new NYC thing.. at one point the subways were a new idea.. at one point copenhagen's elevated bike highways were a new idea, and now those are iconic

while we're at it, i also think they should build a second west side highway crossing at the opposite end of the highline, either by extending past the whitney south and then west, or branching west somewhere just north of the whitney... that would create a single, unified greenspace all the way from battery park to hudson yards and moynihan station

[Submariner]

2PP and MSG should be demolished with prejudice. Everyone should be issued a sledge hammer and allowed three minutes to strike away at those god awful testaments to 1960's era of dogshit architecture and taste.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

it really is.. they need to extend it across 12th to connect to the hudson river greenway and the 39th street ferry terminal (EDIT: i was so excited about the manhattan west extension that I didnt even notice the 12th street crossing was already right there in the same rendering)

then they ought to add a northern branch to the proposed extention, branching off at manhattan west and running above the lincoln tunnel appraoch ramps toward the port authority terminal, and connecting to the new port authority terminal redevelopment

and then from there, perhaps run it 1 block east down 42nd street and connect it to times square, and maybe keep extending it down 42nd to bryant park and then to grand central (you could do something interesting where it has to cross the Park Ave viaduct), and then keep going, around the UN and finally connect to the east river greenway

then if you wanna get really crazy then you could branch off at the UN and go north a couple blocks and then build a bridge to roosevelt island, and then another bridge to long island city

you could eventually build an entire network of highlines running mostly above streets but occasionally between buildings and through the centers of city blocks. it could just be a new york thing.. as iconic as the subways

the current planned expansions are fine, but you have to be careful not to go too willy nilly with it.

based on similar in the past, montreal underground is fine and minneapolis and st paul are fine with their skywalks, but cinci bailed on theirs. so maybe a mixed bag with this kind of thing.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

there, i fixed it for you

this could be a new NYC thing.. at one point the subways were a new idea.. at one point copenhagen's elevated bike highways were a new idea, and now those are iconic

while we're at it, i also think they should build a second west side highway crossing at the opposite end of the highline, either by extending past the whitney south and then west, or branching west somewhere just north of the whitney... that would create a single, unified greenspace all the way from battery park to hudson yards and moynihan station

Originally Posted by mrnyc

the current planned expansions are fine, but you have to be careful not to go too willy nilly with it.

based on similar in the past, montreal underground is fine and minneapolis and st paul are fine with their skywalks, but cinci bailed on theirs. so maybe a mixed bag with this kind of thing.

The High Line is fine for what it is, a unique (to the city) experience to walk what was once a piece of the city's industrial past converted to a space for public use as it winds it's way through that area of Manhattan. And it serves it well. The extensions they are proposing aren't something that will take it far away from where it is now. But New York is meant to be experienced from the street. The point of it all would be removed if you could just zip above and around everything, sort of like a bypass for pedestrians. Also, they eliminated the elevated trains and the skies are more open, even in the canyons of Manhattan. You don't want to go covering up the streets again, we wouldn't even be able to see the skyscrapers that people say block the sky.

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I don’t know that we want to see it spreading across Manhattan all willy-nilly.

Originally Posted by mrnyc

the current planned expansions are fine, but you have to be careful not to go too willy nilly with it.

based on similar in the past, montreal underground is fine and minneapolis and st paul are fine with their skywalks, but cinci bailed on theirs. so maybe a mixed bag with this kind of thing.

I guess you guys are right that it shouldnt go too far.. going willy-nilly would make it not as special. Still, I think they should for sure extend it from manhattan west up to the new port authority bus terminal development, and from there west to the ferry terminal. In fact, (at the risk of being sorely disappointed) ill be sorely disappointed if they dont do that

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

I guess you guys are right that it shouldnt go too far.. going willy-nilly would make it not as special. Still, I think they should for sure extend it from manhattan west up to the new port authority bus terminal development, and from there west to the ferry terminal. In fact, (at the risk of being sorely disappointed) ill be sorely disappointed if they dont do that

Even extending it to the PA bus terminal won't really make a lot of sense unless that area is redeveloped along the lines of what they are looking at. Connecting it to other recreational areas, like the Hudson River Park is more logical. The extension to Manhattan West just connects it to a nearby property - and makes the connection to the west side without having to go through that mall.

That will become more clear when the rest of Moynihan and Manhattan West opens...








Meanwhile, there was more testimony last year, both pro and con, about the Empire Station Complex. Here's some of the testimony for, as Macy's weights in:

















And of course, this isn't really on the table of discussion, but there are always more people to put forth ideas for a new MSG:

[jbermingham123]

Is the possibility of rebuilding MSG above the farley building completely off the table?

That plan made the most sense to me... others are welcome to weigh in

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

Is the possibility of rebuilding MSG above the farley building completely off the table?

That plan made the most sense to me, but others are welcome to weigh in on that

Yeah, that would be impossible, at this point. The Farley building has been rebuilt.

Also, the MSG plan for Farley had its limitations, in that MSG would have to be slightly smaller than today, and the Moynihan train hall would have been slightly less grand. It wasn't a great solution.

If there's a new MSG, and if it's in Manhattan, the only places I could see it happening are on one of the West Side piers, or in the megadevelopment that eventually replaces Javits.