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  #441  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2016, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
This is a huge improvement, not because it appeases the Unitarians, but because it brings the station out to Richmond Road where it should have been in the first place.
+1, and the kinks it adds to the alignment shouldn't hurt performance any since they're immediately into and out of the station in each direction, when the train is moving slow by definition.
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  #442  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2016, 6:56 PM
Mr.Flintstone Mr.Flintstone is offline
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These are def good changes. I didn't understand the original plan of digging tunnels, instead of using the transitway.
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  #443  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2016, 7:06 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Are there before-and-afters of the eastern alignment changes?
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  #444  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2016, 7:11 PM
Mr.Flintstone Mr.Flintstone is offline
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here you go!



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  #445  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2016, 10:33 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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here you go!



Thanks!

And yuck!

And I thought the city had banned itself from using the loaded word "improvement" to describe things that aren't necessarily improvements for everyone? This "improvements" pretty much rules out adding a station to serve Jasmine, which is not an "improvement" in my books.
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  #446  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2016, 11:03 PM
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The city's plans are perfect and unchangeable right up until the moment they aren't

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 24, 2016 | Last Updated: March 24, 2016 3:36 PM EDT


Mayor Jim Watson’s plans are perfect and nothing can change and if you suggest something should, there’s something wrong with you. Any tradeoff you might suggest is absurd. Maybe you’ll get the money from your friends, the leprechauns.

Until suddenly the plan changes.

That’s what happened Thursday. Ottawa’s Unitarians, who have a church, daycare and care home near the planned light-rail line near the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway, have been publicly complaining for over a year that the deal the city struck with the National Capital Commission for a station at Cleary Avenue and Richmond Road would carve through their property, disturbing elderly residents and children. Tough, the city told them repeatedly, rejecting a petition and multiple presentations they made to council committees. Big projects sometimes come with pain.

“You can’t just have the thing float from air,” Watson said last year, specifically responding to their concerns.

But now the plan has changed to all but move the line just off their property and farther from their buildings.

“We’ve spent an enormous amount of time working with the community around there to ensure that their concerns were heard,” Coun. Mark Taylor explained as a group of city officials (not including Watson) announced that change, and some other tweaks in the east end. “This is a good example of, after having it back from the engineering team, yes we can, we can move things and reiterate that design.”

The rail plan changed for the National Capital Commission. Modifications to the leg planned to run along the Ottawa River were out of the question and the NCC board was operating in a fairyland when it kept demanding improvements. And then the city found a way.

Even if you propose ways to find the money, you’re a ninny. What if we didn’t spend $50 million on just two kilometres of road from Riverside Drive to the Smyth Road hospital campus and instead tripled the bike-lane budget for four years? Or built five footbridges? Ha, no. That second road to the hospitals just has to be built.

We’re right now planning out a $343-million widening of Highway 174 to Ottawa’s eastern boundary to go along with a light-rail extension to Orléans, because pairing a high-capacity rail line with a wider highway can’t possibly be a bad idea. Meanwhile, no rail to Kanata until forever.

Another rail-related request the city, via the mayor, rejected was a fourth underground LRT station, one that would have served the National Arts Centre and Confederation Square. It would have cost between $40 million and $50 million, which was money the city didn’t have, had no hope of having, and wouldn’t have spent if it did have. Quite a lot of people pushed for it all the same, proposing that the city put something else off to get a once-in-a-lifetime project right. Didn’t happen.

Here’s a funny thing now. The federal government has a whole lot of money that it wants to spend on city transit projects — $1.4 billion over the next three years in Ontario alone.

The money is to be doled out according to transit ridership — at least, that’s how it’ll be divided among the provinces. Assuming that applies to the next level down, Ottawa’s share is about $140 million. That’s money to be spent as soon as possible: If there’s something you’ve been waiting to do, now’s the time. Infrastructure Minister Amarjeet Sohi says he wants to get money out this construction season.

On budget day, Watson named a couple of things that could eat up $100 million of that: detailed planning for the next phase of light-rail construction ($60 million) and a Transitway extension to Moodie Drive ($40 million). Which leaves $40 million. A few weeks ago the city was quietly putting together a list of projects it could submit for federal funding if something like this happened and Thursday I asked to see the transit plans that might qualify. The city couldn’t produce any.

There’s a lesson here. If the city says a project plan can’t be changed, assume it’s not true. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but the only way you’ll find out is by pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing until they’re royally sick of you. The more sneering the rejection, the better your chances.

Obviously this isn’t a healthy relationship between the government and the governed, but it’s the one they’ve trained us for.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ent-they-arent
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  #447  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2016, 11:37 PM
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This maps pretty well with my lived and observed experience.
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  #448  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2016, 2:24 PM
eltodesukane eltodesukane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
The city's plans are perfect and unchangeable right up until the moment they aren't

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 24, 2016 | Last Updated: March 24, 2016 3:36 PM EDT

..
Even if you propose ways to find the money, you’re a ninny. What if we didn’t spend $50 million on just two kilometres of road from Riverside Drive to the Smyth Road hospital campus and instead tripled the bike-lane budget for four years? Or built five footbridges? Ha, no. That second road to the hospitals just has to be built.

We’re right now planning out a $343-million widening of Highway 174 to Ottawa’s eastern boundary to go along with a light-rail extension to Orléans, because pairing a high-capacity rail line with a wider highway can’t possibly be a bad idea. Meanwhile, no rail to Kanata until forever.

Another rail-related request the city, via the mayor, rejected was a fourth underground LRT station, one that would have served the National Arts Centre and Confederation Square. It would have cost between $40 million and $50 million, which was money the city didn’t have, had no hope of having, and wouldn’t have spent if it did have. Quite a lot of people pushed for it all the same, proposing that the city put something else off to get a once-in-a-lifetime project right. Didn’t happen.
..

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twitter.com/davidreevely

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ent-they-arent
I agree! You are right!
Reasonable ideas seems to go nowhere.
And reasonable extras are cut to save money (things like escalators, elevators, proper shelters, public toilets, heated enclosed stations, etc...).
Always the cheapest is chosen, while the users comfort is deemed irrelevant.
Would you buy a tv without a remote because it is $5 cheaper? No.
Would they built a transit station without proper shelter? Yes.
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  #449  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2016, 3:13 PM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Thanks!

And yuck!

And I thought the city had banned itself from using the loaded word "improvement" to describe things that aren't necessarily improvements for everyone? This "improvements" pretty much rules out adding a station to serve Jasmine, which is not an "improvement" in my books.
"Improvement" is the city's Orwellian speak for "cheaper". I've expressed my concerns about Jasmine station (my neighbourhood) to the city & my councillor but seems it was a pointless exercise. 3km+ of LRT bypassing an existing neighbourhood.

Under the current proposals I'll live 1km from LRT tracks but a 2km walk from the nearest station. Guess the city expects us all to cram on the 12 & transfer as is today.
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  #450  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2016, 7:54 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by Capital Shaun View Post
"Improvement" is the city's Orwellian speak for "cheaper". I've expressed my concerns about Jasmine station (my neighbourhood) to the city & my councillor but seems it was a pointless exercise. 3km+ of LRT bypassing an existing neighbourhood.

Under the current proposals I'll live 1km from LRT tracks but a 2km walk from the nearest station. Guess the city expects us all to cram on the 12 & transfer as is today.
Yes, that is what they expect.

Lrt is for th suburbs outside the Brownbelt. Us peasants need to shut up and eat our buses.
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  #451  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2016, 11:35 PM
CanadaGoose CanadaGoose is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Yes, that is what they expect.

Lrt is for th suburbs outside the Brownbelt. Us peasants need to shut up and eat our buses.
They didn't say, "let's build a MUP, multi-use pathway" to replace service there. So, at least buses will stay
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  #452  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2016, 9:14 PM
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Eric Darwin's missive on the opportunities that present themselves because of the Cleary Station realignment, and some interesting public comments following the recent Info Session:

http://www.westsideaction.com/i-can-see-cleary-now/
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  #453  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Eric Darwin's missive on the opportunities that present themselves because of the Cleary Station realignment, and some interesting public comments following the recent Info Session
Certainly an interesting viewpoint. My first thought though is he is appearing to jump to conclusions based on assumptions prior to receiving information. Still he has some good points. For those interested, the strip mall mentioned, where the proposed station would be, can be seen in Google Street View here.

Quote:
with this station pavilion right on the edge of the Road, it should have some strong retail presence.
I totally agree. I would say most if not all stations should have at least a "newsstand" or coffee shop, especially major transfer points. Given the frequent departures of the LRT, in the morning, people who had to run out the door to catch the bus to the station, might be willing to miss a train or two to grab their morning Java. Similarly, in the evening, those having to wait for their bus might grab a snack or a convenience item while waiting.

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I’ll be really bold and upset the McKeller NIMBY’s by suggesting it have NO PARKING at all. Walk in, bike in, or take transit.
I don't disagree. I don't think there is enough land to provide significant parking anyway. I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of "kiss and ride" though (short term stopping, no parking).
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  #454  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I don't disagree. I don't think there is enough land to provide significant parking anyway. I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of "kiss and ride" though (short term stopping, no parking).
You can park pretty easily on Byron, or any of the streets south of Byron. Can't see that being a problem at all
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  #455  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 12:00 AM
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Not everyone pleased with new alignment of Cleary LRT station

By Melissa Murray
Ottawa West News, Apr 19, 2016


The city may be labelling the new the Cleary light rail transit station realignment as an improvement, but not everyone agrees.

The city now plans to have the station front onto Richmond Road. To do that, the plaza at 747 Richmond Rd. will need to be acquired by the city in its entirety. Previously, the route cut through the Unitarian Church campus, which drew heavy opposition from members of the church and the 130 senior tenants of Unitarian House.

The station is part of the plan for Stage 2 of the city’s LRT project — a plan to add 30 kilometres of track and 19 stations — which the city hopes to launch in 2023.

During a presentation to residents, city staff touted the benefits of the alignment, including improved station accessibility and community presence, reduced property acquisition costs and a reduced number of properties with development impacts.

Lynn McCuskee, who works at Christina Thompson’s consignment and antique store, Treasures Anew, one of the businesses that will be forced to close or relocate because of the city’s new plan to tear down 747 Richmond Rd., questioned the city’s need to push approval through in such a short period of time. Council will consider the realignment on May 11.

“What’s the rush, given that there are so many question marks?” she said.

When Thompson began the business, she spent $20,000 just to get the doors open.

“Not everyone is on board,” McCuskee said of the new plan.

“But we have no choice,” Thompson said, adding, “Fait accompli.”

Both women were surprised just how soon the city would move to acquire the property, either by purchasing it or through expropriation.

“Eight months is not enough time to relocate or sell off and shut down,” McCuskee said.

No matter council’s decision on the fate of the plaza, McCuskee and Thompson hope the area will remain walkable, open and accessible to all demographics. They also hope any new development will capture the flavour of the existing neighbourhood.

“I wish they talked more about the larger plan and how this fits with it,” McCuskee said.

On behalf of the owner of the plaza, his lawyer, Timothy Cullen with McMillan law firm, expressed disappointment — for both the tenants who have been in the plaza for more than 10 years and the missed development opportunity.

“They are disappointed with the last minute change to the route,” Cullen said.

Other residents, especially those living in condos at 57 Cleary St., raised concerns about noise and vibration, both during construction and after, when LRT is up and running.

Chris Swail, city director of LRT Stage 2, explained the city has a number of options to mitigate noise and vibration concerns, including resilient fasteners, which absorb vibrations. Those fasteners will be used nearby, he said.

“We will design the track system to mitigate, using resilient fasteners to the point that you won’t be able to feel it,” Swail said.

Evaluations of the nearby buildings will also be done before, during and post construction, including photos, and any damage will have to be remedied, a process also undertaken during Stage 1 of construction.

But not everyone who asked questions of staff were against the proposal — others expressed a sigh of relief.

“Given all of the problems that the original proposal created, I think this looks like a very good solution to the problem, despite the fact that we’ve heard some issues,” David Jeanes, treasurer of Transport Action Canada, said at the meeting.

Kitchissipi Coun. Jeff Leiper opened the meeting with his approval as well.

“Let me be clear about something — this alignment is going to be a good thing for residents and a good thing for the city overall,” Leiper said.

According to city documents, the realignment will go back to the finance and economic development committee on May 3, where committee members will hear from the public. The matter will be considered by council on May 11. If all goes to plan, property acquisition would begin in the first quarter of 2017 with construction beginning in 2018.

Melissa Murray is a reporter with the Ottawa West News. She can be reached at [email protected] .

http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/n...y-lrt-station/
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  #456  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 2:36 PM
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Maybe this headline should read, "One person not pleased with new alignment of Cleary LRT station"
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  #457  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 12:47 PM
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If we try to please everyone then nothing will ever get built.
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  #458  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 5:50 PM
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I can't help but think of Eric Darwin's words on this strip mall in the link posted by rocketphish above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Darwin
It will replace a plain but functioning strip mall that has parking along the front. It epitomizes 60’s and 70’s mindset that puts parking first. It is actively hostile to pedestrians and cyclists. It discourages impulse shopping, “dropping in” and human contact. It is a great social spot for giant metal beetles needing temporary storage, but that’s it.
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  #459  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2016, 11:03 AM
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Why can't we have the new Cleary LRT station as an integrated part of the mall? Or is the concern because the strip mall will have to be torn up during LRT construction (but can be redeveloped in conjunction with LRT construction).
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  #460  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2016, 2:39 PM
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Why can't we have the new Cleary LRT station as an integrated part of the mall? Or is the concern because the strip mall will have to be torn up during LRT construction (but can be redeveloped in conjunction with LRT construction).
That strip mall will be purchased or expropriated by the City and then demolished in order to excavate the underground station that will replace it on that site. The land will belong to the City after that and will also contain the above ground entrances, public spaces and other features of the new station.

You can see in this image how the at-grade (ie. above ground) western entrance along Richmond Rd. occupies almost the entire site of the current mall.

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