DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[BG918]

Atlanta was probably not the best comparison, and I do believe Seattle and Atlanta are in a different league than Denver and closer to Dallas, Houston, Miami and Boston in the upper echelon of business centers in the US. In terms of GDP though Denver is not far off from Seattle and Minneapolis and roughly on par with Baltimore, Portland, San Jose, Charlotte and San Diego.

Miami is an interesting case in that it doesn't have very many F500 corporate HQ's but attracts a large amount of foreign investment from South America, and acts as a de facto major business and banking center for the Americas & Caribbean. Denver doesn't attract anywhere close to the same amount of foreign investment at this time.

Back on the development front, I heard 1401 Lawrence would begin in September with the demolition of the old Great Gulf condo showroom that has been vacant for 5 years. We shall see.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I'll also dispute Wizened's claim that the metro area has few world class companies. There are at least three areas where Denver has established itself as a global center- aerospace (namely space systems), engineering design (infrastructure and process engineering), and O&G exploration. It's also kind of obvious with how our companies are located in the metro area. Aerospace and engineering design companies tend to prefer campus settings and this has a trickle down effect for supporting companies as well. It's amazing the number of engineers that live in Wash Park and reverse commute to the Tech Center, Wateron Canyon, and to Boulder.

Oh, Denver is also a global center for mining engineering. Not exactly the biggest industry or one that is very public, but a massively important one.

Had I not read two in-depth (and fascinating) articles about the Panama Canal expansion I might never have become aware of MWH, a private engineering company located in Broomfield. Other than Euro companies, MWH and CH2M Hill played key roles. Out of curiosity I researched their background (of mergers etc.); they're very much a global company.

Methinks giving O&G any global credits is a wee bit of a stretch. Many firms are prominent in the Bakken and other fracking hotspots though. Not sure how much of a mining engineering center Denver is either but they participate.

I have no desire to argue your SLC rant (LOL). It would be fair to acknowledge they have outflanked Denver with respect to industrial - manufacturing growth. Actually make that Utah as compared to Colorado. It's that whole cost competitive thingy.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I shamefully admit that I used to subscribe to the periodical before admitting that the content was shit-encrusted drivel that was better purposed as smoking papers for ditchweed.

People magazine for those who pray for money for nothing (and the chicks are .....).

I read it, too, years back. It used to be more independent, actually, back when Malcolm Forbes (Sr) was at the helm. At times, Forbes used to be even a bit irreverent.

That, of course, no longer is true as the internet has killed the "Golden Goose" that magazines used to be.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by BG918

Atlanta was probably not the best comparison, and I do believe Seattle and Atlanta are in a different league than Denver and closer to Dallas, Houston, Miami and Boston in the upper echelon of business centers in the US. In terms of GDP though Denver is not far off from Seattle and Minneapolis and roughly on par with Baltimore, Portland, San Jose, Charlotte and San Diego.

Miami is an interesting case in that it doesn't have very many F500 corporate HQ's but attracts a large amount of foreign investment from South America, and acts as a de facto major business and banking center for the Americas & Caribbean. Denver doesn't attract anywhere close to the same amount of foreign investment at this time.

Back on the development front, I heard 1401 Lawrence would begin in September with the demolition of the old Great Gulf condo showroom that has been vacant for 5 years. We shall see.

No biggie re: Atlanta. It's also hard to appreciate the amount of billions going for industrial development in (metro) Houston and Louisiana resulting from the O&G revolution. The cost to build (or modify) specialized refineries, crude based chemical factories and new port capacity is so big it's hard to conceptualize.


It's always hard to see a piece of history bite the dust. Even though 1401 Lawrence is only to be a revised 21 stories, I do like this project so me toes are crossed.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I have no desire to argue your SLC rant (LOL). It would be fair to acknowledge they have outflanked Denver with respect to industrial - manufacturing growth. Actually make that Utah as compared to Colorado. It's that whole cost competitive thingy.

True. Though having one of the largest copper deposits in the world in your MSA helps boost those manufacturing numbers. The revenue produced by the smelting and refining operations is awesome.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

True. Though having one of the largest copper deposits in the world in your MSA helps boost those manufacturing numbers. The revenue produced by the smelting and refining operations is awesome.

Besides copper-

Various factions in SLC, for reasons most of us know, work together better than in almost all other US cities. Much gets done outside formal government. Most of us, too, are aware of the Wasatch Front work ethic, which, BS aside, actually is a fact.

We in the Denver metro, like in most large US metros, are splintered into numerous groups that, when compared to the Wasatch Front constituent groups, do not work well together. For example, the Denver metro is run by an upper class that tends to be less aware of social needs of the rest of the metro area than the upper class that lives along the Wasatch Front is to lower classes in their neighborhood.* While in both metro areas, the primary aim of the upper class is to make more money, I believe the Denver metro upper class tends to be less socially responsible.

I do believe, however, that when metro Denver is compared to cities besides the Wasatch Front Metropolis, that the various Denver groups do work rather well together across economic, ethnic, and, racial lines.

*I am not going to get into the "why." I am looking more at the "bottom line."

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

True. Though having one of the largest copper deposits in the world in your MSA helps boost those manufacturing numbers. The revenue produced by the smelting and refining operations is awesome.

Wong, everything you're said about what has motivated job numbers and growth in SLC is correct, but I just want to help you a little bit here. The bedrock of the manufacturing and industrial boom in the Wasatch Metro has to do with warehousing and freight. Our location makes us ideal for major freight companies (many of which were founded here and are headquartered here). And we created a bunch of incentives for companies to store their products here, tax free. A lot of the older warehousing has been repurposed over time into small light industrial manufacturing start ups. If you're interested look into the Freeport Center and Utah Freeport Law. Here's a recent Reuters story about the scale of warehousing here and industrial job creation.

A big industrial product from Utah is chemicals, and THAT is actually where the byproduct of the smelting of all that copper comes back into play. Monsanto loves that sulfuric acid byproduct from the western united states' tallest freestanding structure, the good old Kennecott (Rio Tinto) smokestack. Anyway, I've enjoyed this discussion, I just wanted to add my two cents. Carry on.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

Wong, everything you're said about what has motivated job numbers and growth in SLC is correct, but I just want to help you a little bit here. The bedrock of the manufacturing and industrial boom in the Wasatch Metro has to do with warehousing and freight. Our location makes us ideal for major Freight companies (many of which are headquartered here). And we created a bunch of incentives for companies to store their products here, tax free. A lot of the older warehousing has been repurposed over time into small light industrial manufacturing start ups. If you're interested look into the Freeport Center and Utah Freeport Law. Here's a recent Reuters story about the scale of warehousing here and industrial job creation.

A big industrial product from Utah is chemicals, and THAT is actually where the byproduct of the smelting of all that copper comes back into play. Monsanto loves that sulfuric acid byproduct from the western united states' tallest freestanding structure, the good old Kennecott (Rio Tinto) smokestack. Anyway, I've enjoyed this discussion, I just wanted to add my two cents. Carry on.

Thanks for that information, I was aware of Utah's importance to freight which is something that Denver isn't as capable of due to our lack of really good E/W highway and freight connections, but didn't realize it was that big and the incentive of the Freeport Law is pretty cool.

Kenecott's production of sulfur is pretty substantial and it provides a lot of chemical feedstock in the Rocky Mountain region. It was a fun scramble last year when the landslide led to fears that the acid plant wouldn't be producing for a couple of years.

[Denver]

From James Real Estate Services

Brow Group filed plans with the City and County of Denver for the construction of two 30-story apartment buildings on South Downing Street between East Ellsworth and East Bayaud avenues, across from the Denver Country Club. The buildings would contain a total of 500 units and would replace three of the five Country Club Gardens apartment buildings. Pending planning approvals, Broe expects to start demolition this fall and begin work on the towers in early 2015. The remaining apartments, and the adjacent Country Club Tower at 1001 East Bayaud Avenue, will be renovated.

Lets hope this pans out...

Edit. Link http://jres.com/articles/show/Broe-to-Add-Country-Club-Towers/18289

[bunt_q]

#whocares #moreapartments #renternation #proletariat

[blm3034L!fe]

Originally Posted by Denver

From James Real Estate Services

Lets hope this pans out...

Edit. Link http://jres.com/articles/show/Broe-to-Add-Country-Club-Towers/18289

This is in Cherry Creek area right?
I think with everything taking place over there they should also consider remodeling and expanding the mall itself. Just a thought...

[CharlesCO]

I'm all for more density, and I'm glad to see more projects happening in Cherry Creek, but does anyone think that two 30-story apartments would be *too* much density for that area?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

#whocares #moreapartments #renternation #proletariat

You'd have to be blind in one eye and can't see out of the other not to notice the invasion. Fortunately, it's hardly like the scourge of locusts or grasshoppers.

It seems like each new generation has a way of making their own mark. At least until they are corrupted er assimilated into "normal" society they usually march to the beat of a different drum.

Many were just coming of age in 2008. They may not have been mature enough to fully grasp the Great Recession but chances are that many have personally experienced a foreclosure or family job upheaval. If not, then maybe a close personal friend or at the least they knew of others. Many found finding a good job or even a job hard to come by. It's no wonder Milennials have no visions of "white picket fences" and much preferred renting when they couldn't predict what job or where they might be living a year into the future.

Millennials are the Smart Phone - Twitter generation. They socialize more in groups (than dating) and prefer accessibility and convenience to entertainment and jobs. Nothing better than the "perfect storm" that is the Y generation to fulfill the hopes and dreams of urban planners.

The DBJ connects the dots between renting downtown and millennials HERE.

When I read a couple of months ago that Millennials were lovin' downtown rentals in Birmingham and Orlando then I knew this was a virus that had spread everywhere.

Credits to BG918 for inspiring this comment.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

I'm all for more density, and I'm glad to see more projects happening in Cherry Creek, but does anyone think that two 30-story apartments would be *too* much density for that area?

Haha... it quickly jumped out at me as something that might cause a bit of controversy. I wonder if Pat didn't intentionally start out reaching for the stars as a negotiating strategy. Time will tell; perhaps much time.

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

I'm all for more density, and I'm glad to see more projects happening in Cherry Creek, but does anyone think that two 30-story apartments would be *too* much density for that area?

You should look at the address. I wouldn't call this Cherry Creek. This is more of a Speer adjacent tower project, next to an existing tower.

[bob rulz]

Are we actually arguing that renting is a virus or is there some sort of sarcasm I'm missing?

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

does anyone think that two 30-story apartments would be *too* much density for that area?

No.

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Are we actually arguing that renting is a virus or is there some sort of sarcasm I'm missing?

I hope the latter. I'm a renter, and I'm pretty insulted by insinuation that I'm less of a good citizen for it.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

You'd have to be blind in one eye and can't see out of the other not to notice the invasion. Fortunately, it's hardly like the scourge of locusts or grasshoppers.

It seems like each new generation has a way of making their own mark. At least until they are corrupted er assimilated into "normal" society they usually march to the beat of a different drum.

Many were just coming of age in 2008. They may not have been mature enough to fully grasp the Great Recession but chances are that many have personally experienced a foreclosure or family job upheaval. If not, then maybe a close personal friend or at the least they knew of others. Many found finding a good job or even a job hard to come by. It's no wonder Milennials have no visions of "white picket fences" and much preferred renting when they couldn't predict what job or where they might be living a year into the future.

Millennials are the Smart Phone - Twitter generation. They socialize more in groups (than dating) and prefer accessibility and convenience to entertainment and jobs. Nothing better than the "perfect storm" that is the Y generation to fulfill the hopes and dreams of urban planners.

The DBJ connects the dots between renting downtown and millennials HERE.

When I read a couple of months ago that Millennials were lovin' downtown rentals in Birmingham and Orlando then I knew this was a virus that had spread everywhere.

Credits to BG918 for inspiring this comment.

What are you talking about.

[RyanD]

I'm all for more towers, housing, rentals, whatever but, beating the dead horse so hard it's in a parallel universe by now, I wish one of the 30-story towers were for-sale housing. I'm going to want to buy in Denver before I'm 40 years old.

So once condo defects get figured out, because you know 48 other states have figured this out, we are going to need some serious Kroger / Daily Essentials brand condo towers. Like Spire stripped of all the 'luxury' amenities. Wouldn't that just be the dream for all.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by RyanD

So once condo defects get figured out, because you know 48 other states have figured this out, we are going to need some serious Kroger / Daily Essentials brand condo towers. Like Spire stripped of all the 'luxury' amenities. Wouldn't that just be the dream for all.

Apparently not since the development community hasn't done it (Can we blame the lawyers again? Because that's the most fun thing to do). Urban = luxury and non affordable. Suburban = pure shit and affordable.