[Halifax] Parkland at the Common (6009 Quinpool) | 78 m | 25 fl | U/C

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by someone123

The Governor, Cunard, and the art gallery are still in the pipeline.

Not to mention possibly the Ralston Building replacement and the United Gulf Tex-Park project (whatever its current name is).

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by someone123

One thing I have noticed is a lot of people seem to think there is a kind of authenticity that is separate from quality of work, materials, and use. The 19th century style building can only be authentic if it's from the 19th century. But I don't really see it that way. There is value in having neighbourhoods and districts that have a theme of coherent style and if the quality is good then what's the problem. Halifax has a certain kernel of the kind of skills needed for better masonry and woodworking on buildings but it has not really exploded as the city has grown.

It would be nice to see high-quality traditional carpentry work/detailing integrated into some new development. There are a couple examples like the Glubes townhouses. There are some close-but-not-quite-right examples like the Gladstone Ridge houses.

There are certainly differing perspectives on how to restore/rehabilitate old structures. This became a topic of conversation with the notre-dame reconstruction, since Viollet-Le-Duc, the last person to design the restoration of the cathedral, had a philosophy of using past architectural styles but making them grander with the aid of modern building techniques. His books describe someting along the lines of "to restore [the building] to a state of completeness that may never have existed". For that reason, people argued the cathedral should not be replicated, and built to a grander scale using past styles.

I don't see anything wrong with improving heritage buildings using modern techniques, so long as it is respecting past craftmanship and style. Even if the storm porch on my Halifax example was lost, the building is certainly much nicer today.

There are exceptions of course, say for example having a certain story attached to that building. Perhaps you would want to preserve the structure as experienced in that era.

Really, either approach is good. There are other credible philosophies as well.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

Even if the storm porch on my Halifax example was lost, the building is certainly much nicer today.

The city has large numbers of old wooden buildings in various states of repair. If there were better heritage incentives, more of them would be restored like that and the impact on the attractiveness would be huge. Probably the easiest "low hanging fruit" in the city. Many other places have these types of incentives. My impression is that they exist in a modest form for the heritage districts like Barrington but not so much around the North End or most of the South End.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

Queen's Marque is an example of a large scale building that has adopted some local architectural motifs. There are lots of historic buildings around there that are rich in architectural detail too.

The Alexander is another one that incorporated historic styles and materials (stone) even though it's part highrise. It could have been done in a West Coast style with a 2 storey glassy/airy podium. How successful it was is a matter of opinion I guess. Then there's TD, the Roy. There are actually quite a few major modern buildings with recently constructed heritage-inspired architecture. This doesn't seem to have happened as much outside of downtown. There are those medium sized North End buildings that have broken up podium facades with bright colours, although often the end product does not seem to match the rendering. The George looks totally generic to me. Not bad, but it would be hard to guess at the city by looking at it without knowing ahead of time.

Queen's Marque is a good example, though I've noticed it can be quite polarizing in that many love it and some absolutely hate it. I don't think I've heard many "meh, it's alright" reactions... but maybe that's a good thing in that it evokes a strong response one way or the other.

I think the Alexander is a special case in that the podium was made to mimic/continue the Keith's brewery facade, but the rest of the building seems somewhat detached in concept. I do like it though.

The Roy would be a good example of "faux heritage" to me, though. It's been discussed here before that the attempt to follow the motif of the original without retaining any of the original building was basically a fail. It's trying to look like it's from the early 20th, but lacks relief and detail, and basically looks contrived.

These examples are fine, but not really what I thought you were talking about. I wasn't thinking of 'Halifax architecture' in terms of trying to mimic or blend in with old designs of which many were drawn from architectural styles of other places, but rather what building could you look at out of context and think... "that must be a Halifax building". Perhaps Queen's Marque would fit into that, though...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

I was hoping for another conversation like this , let me share my thoughts:

I agree with the general consensus that the ultra-modern Shannex building is not necessarily better than the previous building when we account for the era each was constructed in.
I think now is the time to start thinking about what buildings from 50s & 60s we want to conserve. As much as this era gets portrayed as one of destruction there are certainly some gems worth keeping, and they are now old enough to be considered heritage.

Elements of "Haligonian" architecture I would like to see better conserved or masterfully recreated are: 1) Scottish dormers 2) Ironstone (probably my favorite material in the city) & 3) Storm porches.
Tastefully replicating past architectural marvels is certainly difficult, as it appears most attempts end up being over-commodified.

Here's what I would call a decent re-creation from Harlem: Former Corn Exchange Bank

Here's something OK from Halifax, the renovated house looks much nicer but isn't authentic. The stormporch was lost, and the building didn't originally have a metal roof: https://www.instagram.com/p/CN5h572rMyH/

Now for a more Disneyland-styled approach from Chongqing:

Source: Viator
Certainly very interesting, but far from authentic.

As a streetview enthusiast, I've noticed new russian apartment buildings trying to re-create the more ornate stalinist past. They look pretty cheap to me though: https://www.instagram.com/p/CN5iIcmrflp/

Instagram link wants me to log in, but I don't plan to open an instagram account...

In terms of mid century buildings to preserve, I don't think of the "Gulf" building as a particularly good example (though am appreciating the irony of a building whose major tenant was an oil company being looked at with some degree of nostalgia in an urban focused forum). We've already lost one of the best IMHO - The Bank Of Canada building - to make way for the Maple. The Ralston would have been another one if the original window configuration was restored and the stone cladding attachment had been fixed - too late for that one as well.

The Bank Of Montreal tower looks like it will have a new lease on life, though, and in my mind it's one of the better ones to exemplify mid 20th optimistic architecture.

To your requirements, I would have to add sandstone and local granite... ironstone is neat, but was usually relegated to the side of the building where it couldn't be seen as readily.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

These examples are fine, but not really what I thought you were talking about. I wasn't thinking of 'Halifax architecture' in terms of trying to mimic or blend in with old designs of which many were drawn from architectural styles of other places, but rather what building could you look at out of context and think... "that must be a Halifax building". Perhaps Queen's Marque would fit into that, though...

All culture is borrowed and adapted but a lot of Halifax buildings basically have some twist or combination of influences that makes them unique. Morse's Teas is one example. It's an ironstone and granite base with a red brick addition. There are probably very few buildings like that anywhere in the world; it is a kind of New World take on European styles that also incorporated local building materials.

I'd argue that even the box style wooden houses in Halifax have a somewhat different flavour from other cities and the mix of buildings is unique. This is getting more pronounced over time as Halifax diverges from other cities in the region, including New England.

The austere red brick and sandstone institutional and residential buildings of the 40's and 50's are somewhat unique to the city too. You don't find the same building stock around the rest of Canada and the other Atlantic cities have a small fraction as much of that type of construction.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

Here's what I would call a decent re-creation from Harlem: Former Corn Exchange Bank

This one is marvelous compared to the most likely outcome. I hope that some options like that are considered in Halifax if the city keeps growing. This is actually quite common in Europe, often with 100% reconstruction and no salvage.

I don't think it will happen with Cogswell but I feel like a couple of strategic reconstructions could be great; they would anchor new construction. Some old buildings to consider would be the Hauser Stores for the naval clock, the Great Pontack, the Pentagon Building, Cunard warehouse, or the customs house. I see these as cultural and archaeological projects, not just architectural or a way to create new space to use in the city.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

All culture is borrowed and adapted but a lot of Halifax buildings basically have some twist or combination of influences that makes them unique. Morse's Teas is one example. It's an ironstone and granite base with a red brick addition. There are probably very few buildings like that anywhere in the world; it is a kind of New World take on European styles that also incorporated local building materials.

I'd argue that even the box style wooden houses in Halifax have a somewhat different flavour from other cities and the mix of buildings is unique. This is getting more pronounced over time as Halifax diverges from other cities in the region, including New England.

The austere red brick and sandstone institutional and residential buildings of the 40's and 50's are somewhat unique to the city too. You don't find the same building stock around the rest of Canada and the other Atlantic cities have a small fraction as much of that type of construction.

All good points, but I was really wondering is how could this translate into new, tall structures like the one that this thread is about (to bring it full circle). Like, how do you make it distinctly 'Halifax' vs 'a tall modern building that could exist anywhere in Canada'?

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Instagram link wants me to log in, but I don't plan to open an instagram account...

In terms of mid century buildings to preserve, I don't think of the "Gulf" building as a particularly good example (though am appreciating the irony of a building whose major tenant was an oil company being looked at with some degree of nostalgia in an urban focused forum). We've already lost one of the best IMHO - The Bank Of Canada building - to make way for the Maple. The Ralston would have been another one if the original window configuration was restored and the stone cladding attachment had been fixed - too late for that one as well.

The Bank Of Montreal tower looks like it will have a new lease on life, though, and in my mind it's one of the better ones to exemplify mid 20th optimistic architecture.

To your requirements, I would have to add sandstone and local granite... ironstone is neat, but was usually relegated to the side of the building where it couldn't be seen as readily.

I uploaded them to an alternate service for more to see:

House by the mid-east food centre in 2019 vs 2009



Stalinist replica I found while exploring Moscow in streetview.

Source

As for 50s/60s era buildings worth keeping, I definitely agree on the BMO building. Memorial library is a must as well. I'm particularly fond of both Oxford House and Mathers House that appear to have been designed by the same people. There are a few other seemingly unremarkable buildings that I think have aged well.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

All good points, but I was really wondering is how could this translate into new, tall structures like the one that this thread is about (to bring it full circle). Like, how do you make it distinctly 'Halifax' vs 'a tall modern building that could exist anywhere in Canada'?

I think this is an open challenge for local architects. There's the Queen's Marque example which is large but midrise, and then the TD and Alexander type examples that have podiums sympathetic to the nearby buildings. The TD tower portion is nice but I'd call it generic.

One thing I will note is that historically local proponents of projects/architects/developers were less inclined to go for height than in some other places in North America. For example I think the Bank of NS is something that probably would have had more of a highrise typology in the US. Same for the Dominion Public Building, the lack of a newer legislature with giant dome/tower, etc. The culture was somewhere between the US and UK.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by someone123

The city has large numbers of old wooden buildings in various states of repair. If there were better heritage incentives, more of them would be restored like that and the impact on the attractiveness would be huge. Probably the easiest "low hanging fruit" in the city. Many other places have these types of incentives. My impression is that they exist in a modest form for the heritage districts like Barrington but not so much around the North End or most of the South End.

Sadly, yes. Vinyl siding is the surest way to destroy a building without demolishing it. Cornwallis, Falkland and Cogswell streets have unique buildings that could benefit from better protections. I think pryor terrace in the south end could use some help too: https://www.shapeyourcityhalifax.ca/...55/photos/1653

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by someone123

This one is marvelous compared to the most likely outcome. I hope that some options like that are considered in Halifax if the city keeps growing. This is actually quite common in Europe, often with 100% reconstruction and no salvage.

I don't think it will happen with Cogswell but I feel like a couple of strategic reconstructions could be great; they would anchor new construction. Some old buildings to consider would be the Hauser Stores for the naval clock, the Great Pontack, the Pentagon Building, Cunard warehouse, or the customs house. I see these as cultural and archaeological projects, not just architectural or a way to create new space to use in the city.

The “old Halifax” section definitely has many sources of inspiration. Say if new offices were needed, why not do it with a new customs house? Or say that proposed “transit hub”, could that somehow be incorporated into one of the buildings on the list? I don’t picture these things happening, but it’s nice to ponder about possibilities.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

I uploaded them to an alternate service for more to see:

House by the mid-east food centre in 2019 vs 2009



Stalinist replica I found while exploring Moscow in streetview.

Source

As for 50s/60s era buildings worth keeping, I definitely agree on the BMO building. Memorial library is a must as well. I'm particularly fond of both Oxford House and Mathers House that appear to have been designed by the same people. There are a few other seemingly unremarkable buildings that I think have aged well.

Thanks. Yes, the house does look nice despite losing some of its authentic details. I'd call it an overall win, though, as so many similar houses were let go and torn down in the past (especially notable when you go through the Municipal Archives site and see how many didn't survive the 'slum clearance' of the fifties and sixties.

A definite yes on the Memorial Library, especially after losing the Maritime Life building just up the street (late art deco, 1954). St. Pat's school was a decent example that is now just a field waiting for a purpose (would have been nice to find some way of keeping part of the building, but I know how it goes...).

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

One thing I will note is that historically local proponents of projects/architects/developers were less inclined to go for height than in some other places in North America. For example I think the Bank of NS is something that probably would have had more of a highrise typology in the US. Same for the Dominion Public Building, the lack of a newer legislature with giant dome/tower, etc. The culture was somewhere between the US and UK.

Actually, the lack of height doesn't bother me as much as others on this forum. Everything was built on a smaller scale here, as that's all that was required. Halifax's days of being a major player in commerce and industry faded after the 1800s, and thus continued on as a smaller grade city with smaller buildings.

I still prefer quality over quantity, and style over height. But that's just me.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

This one is marvelous compared to the most likely outcome. I hope that some options like that are considered in Halifax if the city keeps growing. This is actually quite common in Europe, often with 100% reconstruction and no salvage.

I don't think it will happen with Cogswell but I feel like a couple of strategic reconstructions could be great; they would anchor new construction. Some old buildings to consider would be the Hauser Stores for the naval clock, the Great Pontack, the Pentagon Building, Cunard warehouse, or the customs house. I see these as cultural and archaeological projects, not just architectural or a way to create new space to use in the city.

The Pentagon Building and the Customs House would be huge pluses for me, as they are the ones that hurt the most when I look at old photos. Though I also agree on the Cunard warehouse and the Hauser Stores.

[someone123]

Another one I wonder about, in the future when the Law Courts are redeveloped, is some kind of construction of the old 3 storey buildings that were there. Basically an extension of Historic Properties and better than the strip mall style structure that is there now. It would not take up the full development site.

I would like the see the city get away from "modernist reinterpretation" style simplified ersatz masonry blocks that represent old buildings and strategically build some that actually look like the originals.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

Another one I wonder about, in the future when the Law Courts are redeveloped, is some kind of construction of the old 3 storey buildings that were there. Basically an extension of Historic Properties and better than the strip mall style structure that is there now. It would not take up the full development site.

I would like the see the city get away from "modernist reinterpretation" style simplified ersatz masonry blocks that represent old buildings and strategically build some that actually look like the originals.

I would like to see that as well - actual replicas of previously existing buildings would give Historic Properties greater meaning and IMHO provide a better waterfront/downtown experience to locals and tourists alike.

I don't see any movement towards this end, unfortunately, so it seems like the best we can hope for is "modernist reinterpretations", at least for now. It would be cool if an "activist" group could put together a good proposal and present it to the city/province to get the idea out there... you never know if a little media/social media exposure might gain some momentum.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I don't see any movement towards this end, unfortunately, so it seems like the best we can hope for is "modernist reinterpretations", at least for now.

But in 2005 I would not have predicted that Halifax was going to get a bunch of high quality downtown buildings constructed with sandstone, granite, nice glass curtain walls, and Muntz metal panels. So who knows? I think the higher growth and greater wealth changes things a lot.

[Hali87]

The Vic, Maple, and St. Joseph's Square are all examples of mid-to-highrises that I would consider non-generic; the detailing on the St. Joseph's balconies is a pretty graceful way of incorporating the sort of baroque Hal Forbes-style elements into a post/modern context without it looking cheesy. For all of its faults, I also would have trouble seeing something like the Mary Ann built anywhere in Canada outside of the Atlantic provinces. It ended up being a bit... chaotic for my tastes, but at least they tried.

The common thread in most of these (not the Maple) is the use of coloured glass, the Pavilion and Curve do this as well. The fact that there's a requirement for some sort of defining feature or variation in the top 1/3 of buildings tends to save us from the absolute most generic stuff as well, something I notice in contrast to Ottawa, which doesn't seem to have this requirement.

One city that I find does sort of port its older architectural traditions into new developments really well is Saskatoon (a lot of earth tones and rounded, streamline-moderne detailing).

I'm glad we never ended up like something like the Rooms or those buildings in the Hague that look like giant houses.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

As for 50s/60s era buildings worth keeping, I definitely agree on the BMO building.

While perhaps of that era visually or stylistically, the Bank of Montreal tower is actually a 70s building. Memory says 70 or 71.