National Victims of Communism Memorial | U/C

[HomeInMyShoes]

I've got a great idea for an art project: everyone that feels a victim of this monument can buy a brick for $2 (or however much to recover costs to the artist) and I'll erect a gigantic wall in memory of all those victimized by this process. I might need a donation of a lot of land to build it on though.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by jitterbug

This monument is a nothing more than a physical manifestation of a fascist regime (the "Harper" government), intent on imposing its fundamentalist far-right views on Canadians. As usual, they continue to lie about their true intent, which I believe is to deflect (and deny) the many victims of capitalism -- among them the army of sweat shop workers (who in many cases die on the job) in the world's many sacrifice zones and who ultimately serve to enrich the capitalists while impoverishing virtually everyone else. Shameful.

Actually, capitalism, more than anything else, has contributed to the noticeable rise in global prosperity of the last 10-15 decades. Its true that many lives have been lost on our quest for more things, but before capitalism no system could ever have achieved what we have now.
Just look at how much Asia has grown to see what half the world coming out of poverty looks like. It won't be pretty, but then again neither was our march of progress.
I still really dislike the idea of this memorial, and we are dedicating it to an ideology long ago brought low. Not to mention, there is actually a Communist Party in our elections, who would probably argue against the idea that they are trying to create a world like the one depicted.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Just because Mulcair or Harper might not be keen to lionize Trudeau Sr. doesn't mean the courthouse can't possibly get built. Buildings change their names in the development process all the bloody time.

The replacement for the Lorne Building was renamed The Jim Flaherty Building well after major construction had finished.

The John Diefenbaker Building was previously known as 111 Sussex Drive and, before that, it was known officially as the Old City Hall building (and before that, it was just the City Hall building, naturally).

Zibi started out as Les Iles and, before that, it was The Islands.

The Sir John A. MacDonald Parkway started out as the Ottawa River Parkway.

The list goes on and on and on. Anybody can build a federal court building on that site and call it literally anything if naming it after Trudeau is undesirable.

Except the name was the whole point of the project. No government showed any interest in the courthouse before Trudeau died and nobody really cared that it wasn't built by Martin or Harper until this communist thing came along.

The federal courts have a perfectly good building in a central location and they are only using about half of their current building.
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/dfrp-rbif/s...30578-eng.aspx

Meanwhile the the Supreme Court building is falling apart.
http://ottawacitizen.com/storyline/t...-falling-apart

It would be nice if people put half the energy that they're putting into fighting for or against this communist thing into getting the SCC building fixed.

[rocketphish]

Add council to formal list of critics against location for Memorial

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: May 27, 2015, Last Updated: May 27, 2015 5:48 PM EDT

It’s been a rough week for the Memorial for the Victims of Communism.

First, an EKOS Research poll indicated overwhelming opposition to the memorial, with more than three quarters of respondents from across the country giving it the thumbs down. (In the capital region, where more people are aware of the controversial project, resistance to it was even higher.)

Then on Wednesday, council took the unusual step of passing a motion formally requesting that the federal government move the memorial from its planned location next to the Supreme Court.

So far, neither event appears to be having much influence on the Conservative government’s plans. Cabinet members were unswayed by the poll results, with Heritage Minister Shelly Glover — apparently without irony — referring to the opposition to the memorial as “shallow, improvised rationalizations that sacrifice principle for insensitive political gamesmanship.”

And Glover got into a dust-up in the House of Commons again on Wednesday with Ottawa Centre MP Paul Dewar over the city’s motion.

“Will the minister do our democracy the honour of actually listening and respecting elected representatives?” asked Dewar in the House. “In other words, will Conservatives change the location of the memorial back to its original site?”

It does not seem so. Glover responded that her government would “be very proud to put that monument in a prominent location, to do just what we promised to do.”

Both events this week highlight the ever-more-voluble opposition to the memorial, but for different reasons. The EKOS survey respondents were reacting mostly to the design — they were shown four artist’s renderings of the massive memorial — and to a lesser extent the idea of the memorial itself. (The poll didn’t ask about the ideals behind the memorial, but it did offer five concepts and asked respondents to rank in terms of priorities. A national library “on a grand scale” and a memorial commemorating injustices against Aboriginal people ranked first, while a memorial to victims of communism came last.)

The city’s motion explicitly and painstakingly dealt only with the location of the site. Moved by Coun. Tobi Nussbaum and fully supported by Mayor Jim Watson — who’s already made opposition to the project known — the motion asks the federal government to find another site for the memorial.

And for good reason. The Conservatives unilaterally decided to move this memorial from a perfectly reasonable site at the Garden of the Provinces to the land beside the Supreme Court, despite decades-long plans to build a federal court on the property (a courthouse, coincidentally, to be named after Pierre Trudeau).

Six councillors voted against the motion, some wondering — and not without justification — whether it was wise to annoy our federal partners with this symbolic, yet powerless statement. After all, the city needs the feds at the table for wee items such as a $1-billion investment in the second phase of LRT.

As much as Watson opined that “good friends can have arguments,” we’ve seen how hard feelings between politicians can negatively affect how this city operates. So ticking off the feds is a risk, certainly.

Other councillors, such as Allan Hubley who is a known Conservative, said this issue “is not our sandbox.” How the federal government develops the heart of the capital has nothing to do with the city, according to the Kanata South councillor.

But Hubley is wrong.

The future federal court site — the location for the proposed memorial — is written into the official Long Term Vision and Plan for the Parliamentary and Judicial Precincts. That planning document was the product of years of consultation with national and local stakeholders, architects and urban planners, and was updated and approved by the federal government in 2006.

As Nussbaum pointed out, the city played a critical role in that plan and was one of the key stakeholders who “helped to essentially frame that document that had wide buy in.”

So while the land in question is under federal jurisdiction and the decision for what happens there ultimately rests with the feds, the city has every right to express an opinion on a matter of this magnitude.

As Watson pointed out at council, when the federal government decided to redevelop the Rockcliffe airbase and Tunney’s Pasture, it consulted the public. (He also mentioned that when the city needs to use federal land, it pays for it, while Tribute to Liberty — the private charitable group behind the monument — is getting one of the primest pieces of capital real estate for free. Actually better than free: the government is putting $3 million into the project.)

But for this memorial, the government summarily changed long-term plans with the stroke of a pen, a move that would change the spirit of the ceremonial route in the nation’s capital forever.

“Most Canadians, most Ottawans would agree that Confederation Boulevard is our most important street,” said Watson. “And to have this massive monument that is almost as big as the National War Memorial and put in a place that is completely out of character and out of size for that site is the wrong decision. And I think that we’re totally within out right to offer our perspective.”

Coun. Rick Chiarelli, who voted against the motion, suggested residents who oppose the memorial contact their MPs. It’s an excellent idea.

With files from Lee Berthiaume

jchianello@ottawacitizen.com

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-col-chianello

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by silvergate

Actually, capitalism, more than anything else, has contributed to the noticeable rise in global prosperity of the last 10-15 decades. Its true that many lives have been lost on our quest for more things, but before capitalism no system could ever have achieved what we have now.
Just look at how much Asia has grown to see what half the world coming out of poverty looks like. It won't be pretty, but then again neither was our march of progress.
I still really dislike the idea of this memorial, and we are dedicating it to an ideology long ago brought low. Not to mention, there is actually a Communist Party in our elections, who would probably argue against the idea that they are trying to create a world like the one depicted.

Capitalism has also contributed, more than a lot of other governing ideaologies, to economic inequality among people. On the other hand, the basic ideal of communism is that people are all just as wealthy.

Governing idealologies don't victimize people in a vacuum. They may victimize because of how they're implemented.

[Temperance]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The federal courts have a perfectly good building in a central location and they are only using about half of their current building.
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/dfrp-rbif/s...30578-eng.aspx

Meanwhile the the Supreme Court building is falling apart.
http://ottawacitizen.com/storyline/t...-falling-apart

It would be nice if people put half the energy that they're putting into fighting for or against this communist thing into getting the SCC building fixed.

According to the website you cite the building is fully occupied. Moreover, it does not include all the courts which were supposed to be in the Trudeau Building, such as the Federal Court, Courts of Court Martial, and Tax Court.

Even if the Trudeau Building isn't built I still think the Communism memorial is a very poor use for the site.

[jitterbug]

Originally Posted by silvergate

Actually, capitalism, more than anything else, has contributed to the noticeable rise in global prosperity of the last 10-15 decades. Its true that many lives have been lost on our quest for more things, but before capitalism no system could ever have achieved what we have now.
Just look at how much Asia has grown to see what half the world coming out of poverty looks like. It won't be pretty, but then again neither was our march of progress.

Well, at least the memorial proposal has got some of us talking about interesting stuff! No system is perfect, and neither capitalism nor communism is all good or all bad. All the more reason why reasonable people can probably agree on one thing: this memorial is just wrong (in any location, but especially in the one proposed).

PS: I would counter your argument by pointing out that no system before capitalism has created the level of income inequality that we now have in the world, and getting worse. Excessive inequality is not just a problem for the poor, it's a big problem for capitalism itself. So while many middle-class Canadians are still pretty well off (and therefore complacent), that doesn't tell the full story. It would be naïve to think that capitalism, like any other social system, will last in its current form indefinitely, and some thinkers are now saying the system itself is in decline (i.e. rotting from within). The storm clouds are certainly brewing.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by jitterbug

It would be naïve to think that capitalism, like any other social system, will last in its current form indefinitely, and some thinkers are now saying the system itself is in decline (i.e. rotting from within).

Not to mention it's first cousin... democracy.

I'm sure most politicians honestly enter the field with the best of intentions... i.e. lets represent the people and push for positive change.

However once they reach the pinnacle (cough.. Ontario.. cough.. Federal) they become either beholden to the money.. or completely obsessed with re-election to the point that drives all political decisions.

At the pinnacle, I see very little evidence of representing "the will of the people".. and/or "doing the right thing". These comments apply to all parties equally... it's the system that is in trouble...

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by jitterbug

Well, at least the memorial proposal has got some of us talking about interesting stuff! No system is perfect, and neither capitalism nor communism is all good or all bad. All the more reason why reasonable people can probably agree on one thing: this memorial is just wrong (in any location, but especially in the one proposed).

PS: I would counter your argument by pointing out that no system before capitalism has created the level of income inequality that we now have in the world, and getting worse. Excessive inequality is not just a problem for the poor, it's a big problem for capitalism itself. So while many middle-class Canadians are still pretty well off (and therefore complacent), that doesn't tell the full story. It would be naïve to think that capitalism, like any other social system, will last in its current form indefinitely, and some thinkers are now saying the system itself is in decline (i.e. rotting from within). The storm clouds are certainly brewing.

I don't think you're taking into account the fact that before capitalism there were just ~1.5 billion humans. Nor are you considering the feudal system that doinated much of Eastern Europe prior, and western europe before that. If you want to talk about income inequality, how about how the serfs were literally tied to the land and robbed blind by the millionaires and billionaires of their day. The middle class is not losing ground. The middle class is actually growing, if you want to count people around the world who are rapidly joining.
No doubt the system is imperfect, but changes are coming from within, as companies develop CSR programs and start actually improving the lives of everybody that works for them.

[Arcologist]

I sent a letter to MP Pierre Poilievre over a month ago, with one simple question (I wanted to keep it simple and avoid getting a political beat-around-the-bush answer).

My question was: Why wasn't the public consulted on such an important initiative, on one of Canada's most prominent sites?

Over a month, and still no answer... I don't expect to ever get one either...

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by jitterbug

This monument is a nothing more than a physical manifestation of a fascist regime (the "Harper" government), intent on imposing its fundamentalist far-right views on Canadians. As usual, they continue to lie about their true intent, which I believe is to deflect (and deny) the many victims of capitalism -- among them the army of sweat shop workers (who in many cases die on the job) in the world's many sacrifice zones and who ultimately serve to enrich the capitalists while impoverishing virtually everyone else. Shameful.

Looking at Ekos' poll results, it is very noteworthy that when crossed by vote intention, the group the most likely to support this monument are conservative voters. But even then, nearly 2 in 3 conservative voters oppose it.

[jitterbug]

Originally Posted by silvergate

No doubt the system is imperfect, but changes are coming from within, as companies develop CSR programs and start actually improving the lives of everybody that works for them.

LMAO

CSR programs, yes, they look so good in annual reports. Make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Where is Joe Fresh's CSR program to compensate victims of the Bangladesh sweat shops who lost their loved ones, and their limbs, so you can buy a $10 t-shirt!? (Yes, they're still waiting!)

[ars]

Originally Posted by Arcologist

I sent a letter to MP Pierre Poilievre over a month ago, with one simple question (I wanted to keep it simple and avoid getting a political beat-around-the-bush answer).

My question was: Why wasn't the public consulted on such an important initiative, on one of Canada's most prominent sites?

Over a month, and still no answer... I don't expect to ever get one either...

I sent him a reply a few months ago calling him out on a BS response(which most likely wasn't even written by him) he sent me to my original email that I sent him. Still haven't received a response for that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

Library and Archives Canada could do with a new HQ building. The current one's been serving well for decades, but they need something better if not larger.

The white office building across the road from the shiny preservation centre *is* is the new LAC HQ building.

That department is no longer headquartered on Wellington in Ottawa, although they do still have some operations there (direct services to the public for example, AFAIK). Not sure how many administrative staff still work there though...

[teej1984]

You know what, I wouldn't be opposed to a Truth and Reconciliation Monument at this location, especially after seeing all the news regarding the Commission's report.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by teej1984

You know what, I wouldn't be opposed to a Truth and Reconciliation Monument at this location, especially after seeing all the news regarding the Commission's report.

That would be a much better use than this political statement Harper wants.

[jitterbug]

Originally Posted by teej1984

You know what, I wouldn't be opposed to a Truth and Reconciliation Monument at this location, especially after seeing all the news regarding the Commission's report.

You just might be on to something. The monument could be called "Victims of Cultural Genocide" — and might include images of Canadian prime ministers, past and present, accompanied by descriptions of their respective roles in setting up and facilitating/defending the residential schools.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by jitterbug

You just might be on to something. The monument could be called "Victims of Cultural Genocide" — and might include images of Canadian prime ministers, past and present, accompanied by descriptions of their respective roles in setting up and facilitating/defending the residential schools.

Perhaps including a pathway of golden pavers, representing good intentions.

I'd prefer a building rather than any monument on that site, however.

[rocketphish]

Messing with 'a remarkable plan' a century in the making

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 7, 2015, Last Updated: June 7, 2015 7:54 PM EDT

It’s a plan more than a century in the making. And the Conservative government blithely ignored it when it designated a 5,000-square-metre property on Wellington Street as the future site of the Memorial to the Victims of Communism.

So say Robert Allsopp and Lyette Fortin, two key architects of the Long Term Vision and Plan (LTVP) for the parliamentary and judicial precincts.

Allsopp, one of Canada’s leading urban designers, helped prepare the LTVP’s 1987 iteration and its 2007 update. Fortin, who spent 16 years as the House of Commons’ director of architecture strategic planning, participated in the plan’s development and kept the powerful all-party Board of Internal Economy informed about it.

On Wednesday evening, the two will present a joint lecture, hoping to raise public understanding of the LTVP at a time when its integrity is under direct assault from the victims of communism memorial.

Both are dismayed that the government saw fit to plunk a memorial on a site long reserved for a future home for the Federal Court of Canada.

“It has a major, major impact on decades of good, solid, thoughtful planning,” says Fortin.

The LTVP spells out certain principles for the parliamentary and judicial precincts, such as the concept of “pavilion buildings” — buildings that stand independently in the landscape, visible from all sides.

In the judicial precinct, centred on the Supreme Court of Canada, the idea of a triad of buildings, mirroring the three Parliament Buildings, is one of the key principles, Allsopp says. Placing a large monument there scuttles that forever.

Part of Allsopp’s frustration comes from the fact that the current LTVP builds on planning for the parliamentary and judicial precincts that dates back to 1912.

“This latest plan is part of a string going back 100 years or more,” he says. “We’ve been moving in a certain direction. We continue to move in this direction. We shouldn’t be screwing it up.”

Fortin calls the LTVP “a remarkable plan. It’s all-encompassing and it’s integrated. You cannot just take away a piece, because it would jeopardize the plan.”

Moreover, it was developed through “truly exemplary” consultation with a wide variety of stakeholders, she says. By contrast, the government consulted no one before announcing the memorial would go on the Wellington Street site, Fortin says. “It was a unilateral decision.”

The 2007 update, ordered by the incoming Conservative government, had all-party support, Allsopp points out. “Why is it suddenly not such a good plan?”

Fortin had left her House of Commons job before the government announced the memorial site in 2013. “I don’t think it would have happened if I would have been there,” she says.

“There are all kinds of sites that have been identified for commemoration. A most appropriate and proper site can be found which would not impact on an extraordinary plan and break up a plan that is so solid.”

“We’re talking about something that’s incredibly important,” says Allsopp, whose 75-year-old partner, Roger du Toit, an urban designer who also worked on the LTVP, was killed less than two weeks ago in a cycling accident in Toronto.

“This is the heart of the country. It’s the symbolic centre. You treat it with as much care and respect and TLC as you can muster. If people don’t care about that, I’m sorry, but I do. And I think there are a lot of people who do.”

dbutler@ottawacitizen.com
twitter.com/ButlerDon

Robert Allsopp and Lyette Fortin will speak about the Long Term Vision and Plan at 7 p.m. Wednesday in the council chambers at Ottawa City Hall.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-in-the-making

[Uhuniau]

Remember, folks - Harper's fixation with plunking monuments all over Ottawa is driven by one thing, and one thing only: taking up all the good spots that might otherwise be occupied by a future statute of Pierre Trudeau.