General Infrastructure Discussion

[Migrant_Coconut]

Cross-laminated timber =/= conventional wood; the former has actually proved to be more fire-resistant than concrete in certain cases (though much less soundproof).

[jollyburger]

I guess there might be more concern over the lower wood frame buildings that might make more use of conventional wood? Like the 6-storey type structures being allowed..

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Kisai

But more to the point the least efficient electric heating is your baseboard electric heat registers that all the crappy apartment and "luxury" condo's use.

That's a pretty old standard. Concrete condos are by and large using heat pumps now, with centralized cool and warm water feeds.

On a related note I rented a condo built in the late 90s that had hot water baseboards. I imagine that's pretty efficient using the centralized boiler.

Originally Posted by Kisai

Anyway not the forum for this specific argument. Suffice it to say, "natural gas is bad" is only wrong when it's used to generate electricity.

It turns out natural gas indoors is not great for kids with developing lungs (and the rest of us) as there was some links to asthma and other breathing ailments. I love my NG stove but this is part of the reason.

Has a natural gas fireplace caused a condo fire in Metro Van recently? I can't think of any examples.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It turns out natural gas indoors is not great for kids with developing lungs (and the rest of us) as there was some links to asthma and other breathing ailments. I love my NG stove but this is part of the reason.

As well as increasing asthma in kids, the Nitrogen Oxide and small particulates from burning can make COPD in adults worse. Gas stoves also leak methane, and there are other known carcinogens released by burning gas, including formaldehyde. And it contributes to global heating too. There are many good reasons to switch from burning stuff to electrification.

[Sheba]

BC Hydro to dismantle decommissioned natural gas power plant in Port Moody

BC Hydro has announced plans to dismantle an aging and all but shuttered natural gas power plant on Port Moody’s north shore.

The 950-megawatt Burrard Generating Station is 62 years old and, until it was decommissioned in 2016, served as a backup power source for B.C.’s hydroelectric grid during low water years.

Since then it has been functioning much like a substation, converting high-voltage electricity from the hydro grid to a lower voltage for use in Metro Vancouver.

What the site will be used for once the plant is dismantled hasn’t been decided yet, said BC Hydro spokesperson Kevin Aquino, with preliminary steps of what will likely be a multi-year process still underway.

“We want to identify whether or not there are archaeological resources or if there’s like contamination and that will help us determine the future use of the site,” Aquino said.

While the future of the site remains unclear, there are already hopes it will be used for green power infrastructure.

...

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

seems like a bad time to get rid of it as we go into lower-water years.

but was bound to happen.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Hope BC Hydro has a plan... this could easily turn into our own little Energiewende if it's not a good one.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Hope BC Hydro has a plan... this could easily turn into our own little Energiewende if it's not a good one.

As the report says, the gas plant was decommissioned in 2016. If anything gets developed on the site that generates power from a carbon-free source it would be a bonus for BC Hydro.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

seems like a bad time to get rid of it as we go into lower-water years.

but was bound to happen.

It's not the 1950s anymore, if we struggle to produce enough energy in BC, we just buy power from Washington state which at worst is also natural gas.

Originally Posted by Changing City

As the report says, the gas plant was decommissioned in 2016. If anything gets developed on the site that generates power from a carbon-free source it would be a bonus for BC Hydro.

The closest thing to a "green energy source" that would be viable in that location would be a hydrogen plant and tanker terminal which I'm sure that particular Coquitlam NDP MLA would love to have. Don't expect a solar or wind farm on the IOCO slopes any time soon.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

The closest thing to a "green energy source" that would be viable in that location would be a hydrogen plant and tanker terminal which I'm sure that particular Coquitlam NDP MLA would love to have. Don't expect a solar or wind farm on the IOCO slopes any time soon.

The report doesn't mention green power production, it suggests green power infrastructure might be developed there. For example, there are already examples of large scale battery storage being developed on former thermal power plants in Germany, Australia and California. The grid connections already exist, which is a significant advantage, and large scale storage using a variety of technologies like redox flow or liquid air batteries have been developing - and coming down in cost - in the past few years. For almost instant grid energy top up, alongside more traditional lithium ion batteries there are now grid systems like EnerVenue's nickel hydrogen batteries.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The report doesn't mention green power production, it suggests green power infrastructure might be developed there. For example, there are already examples of large scale battery storage being developed on former thermal power plants in Germany, Australia and California. The grid connections already exist, which is a significant advantage, and large scale storage using a variety of technologies like redox flow or liquid air batteries have been developing - and coming down in cost - in the past few years. For almost instant grid energy top up, alongside more traditional lithium ion batteries there are now grid systems like EnerVenue's nickel hydrogen batteries.

It basically makes zero sense to have battery mass storage in BC. Hydroelectric reservoirs are inherent energy storage systems and we're the world's envy when it comes to reservoirs. We can have wind farms producing when it's windy and ramp down hydroelectric generators to let reservoirs fill. Natural battery.

[Migrant_Coconut]

SMR? It's right next to the water, after all.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

SMR? It's right next to the water, after all.

nUcLeAr PoWeR iN a PoPuLaTeD aReA???

[Migrant_Coconut]

Standards change. I mean, if you'd told me twenty years ago that we'd be seeing highrises south of False Creek...

[chowhou]

In all seriousness, it may or may not make sense. In an ideal scenario a nuclear reactor would be cooled with fresh water not salt water (as Burrard Thermal was), but Sasamat Lake has been dumping water over its dam for years upon years. It potentially might be enough to provide cooling to a smaller nuclear reactor... or it might not be.

On the other hand, cue the environmentalists saying that dumping heated water into Burrard Inlet is going to kill all the salmon or something.

[mcj]

Most SMRs don't need water at all for cooling. Molten salt does just fine. You're thinking old reactor tech.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by mcj

Most SMRs don't need water at all for cooling. Molten salt does just fine. You're thinking old reactor tech.

Where exactly do you think the heat goes in a molten salt reactor? For one, you're not spinning a turbine with molten salt, and you're also not using the air as your heat sink for the condenser...

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

It basically makes zero sense to have battery mass storage in BC. Hydroelectric reservoirs are inherent energy storage systems and we're the world's envy when it comes to reservoirs. We can have wind farms producing when it's windy and ramp down hydroelectric generators to let reservoirs fill. Natural battery.

Except that for years BC Hydro used Burrard Thermal as a backup electrical source for Metro Vancouver during peak hours or when the reservoirs for hydroelectricity were running low. So it's entirely possible that with more intermittent sources of electricity being added to the grid like wind and run of river, a battery mass storage might add reliability to the supply. BC Hydro already battery storage in parts of BC.

For what it's worth the local MLA wants the site to potentially be used for a carbon capture or carbon sequestration project.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Except that for years BC Hydro used Burrard Thermal as a backup electrical source for Metro Vancouver during peak hours or when the reservoirs for hydroelectricity were running low. So it's entirely possible that with more intermittent sources of electricity being added to the grid like wind and run of river, a battery mass storage might add reliability to the supply. BC Hydro already battery storage in parts of BC.

For what it's worth the local MLA wants the site to potentially be used for a carbon capture or carbon sequestration project.

Again, Vancouver doesn't have much use for a backup electrical source anymore and battery mass storage doesn't fit that role anyway. Especially with renewable development in the interior, hydroelectric dams are looking more and more like our energy storage system by the year.

And if you're talking about Field, BC, that's more of a UPS than "battery storage". Field is connected to the grid by hundreds of kilometres of tree level low voltage power lines through the Rockies meaning one treefall takes out the entire town. Vancouver does not have that issue.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Changing City

... So it's entirely possible that with more intermittent sources of electricity being added to the grid like wind and run of river, a battery mass storage might add reliability to the supply. BC Hydro already battery storage in parts of BC.

Then we'll need a much more efficient storage medium than lithium-ion. It's great for smartphones, less great for EVs, and terrible for large-scale grids.