Philadelphia Transportation Thread

[thenbagis]

hammer-

Since the BSL is owned by the city, is there anyway that idea of extending the BSL to Gloucester (through the Navy Yard) could have worked? Seems like a political nightmare.

Admittedly, right now would be probably the worst possible time... everyone is up in arms over the DRPA and Gov Christie doesn't exactly seem like the biggest supporter of working with other states (ARC anyone?)



Speaking of Gov Christie... Anyone see anything on his position of the proposed PATCO extensions (Glassboro and Philly Waterfront)?

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

1) Yep. Train tracks.

But Broad Street passes over the tracks. Is reinforcing the bridge less complicated than digging beneath the tracks?

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

2) Clearly you haven't been in this city long.

Considering that I am a middle aged, born and raised Philadelphian, would you like to make your point without being a snide jerk?

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

SEPTA does not have any positive record of designing and funding service extensions. The Broad Street Line itself was built by the City and its physical plant is owned by the City (which SEPTA then leases): that's why you get a City seal on every orange car.

This isn't something SEPTA'll fund; this is something the City will probably fund. (Unfortunately we're kind of broke right now and we're working on things like building a fair tax assessment after that last BRT clusterfuck and the Central Delaware riverfront master plan, so that's not exactly high on our list of priorities.)

Since revamping the tax structure is on the list, we shouldn't pursue any other priorities? I like how you throw "we" at me as if you are somehow managing these city problems and I'm sitting on a couch in Indianapolis. I am a city resident and a tax-paying property owner. I'm raising my family here and want a better future for my children. I haven't been on this site very long but I really wasn't expecting such a reaction to a simple question.

Simply don't respond if you think my question is so stupid, naive, and below your seemingly superior intellect.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by thenbagis

hammer-

Since the BSL is owned by the city, is there anyway that idea of extending the BSL to Gloucester (through the Navy Yard) could have worked? Seems like a political nightmare.

Admittedly, right now would be probably the worst possible time... everyone is up in arms over the DRPA and Gov Christie doesn't exactly seem like the biggest supporter of working with other states (ARC anyone?)



Speaking of Gov Christie... Anyone see anything on his position of the proposed PATCO extensions (Glassboro and Philly Waterfront)?

No , The Riverline will be extended to Glassboro and Eventually Vineland. With Branches to Salem and Penns Grove. And Trenton Transit Center to West Trenton Station.

[volguus zildrohar]

thenbagis, the Gloucester extension was a "what-if" scenario. Such a thing would pose the same issues that the waterfront light rail has - who builds it, who pays for it, who owns it and who operates it?

PHL10, what bridge are you referring to? Raising the line to the surface is impractical - where and how exactly would a third rail running train line be located along Broad Street? Any alternate route would take it either through private property (namely the Sports Complex) or FDR Park and would be needlessly expensive. There are very few places in the US where such rail lines run at grade in urban areas (Chicago being the most conspicuous).

The route has been plotted and, I believe, approved but approved plans are worth exactly the paper they're printed on with no funding and that's the more complex part. I would not hold my breath waiting for this to get off the ground - it's far from pie in the sky but there are other infrastructure/capital projects both on the city's and SEPTA's agenda which I'd argue are more pressing within the next five years. Expand that to ten and maybe.

Remember, it's very difficult to get transit funding for anything other than New Starts anymore and it's always tied to projected ridership which is the biggest thing working in favor of this proposal. If The Navy Yard becomes the economic hub that it's being projected to be than it would be hard to make an argument against the funding on the federal side.

[PHL10]

I'm assuming that if it ran at grade, it would need to be fenced. Hammer mentioned that it couldn't run at grade due to train tracks. I assume that he is referring to the tracks that run on the south/east side of 95 for which Broad Street crosses via a bridge:

[hammersklavier]

Precisely. What's going on is that if you want to elevate the extension to the Navy Yard, you'd have to bring it up to grade at the bottom of the Sports Complex and elevate it over the CSX line, and then elevate further in the Navy Yard proper.

Granted that this is all former swampland, and so you'll basically have to tunnel cut-and-cover, but still I actually don't think the cost savings for elevation are all that much (you'd have to incur structural engineering costs for the elevated structure, as well as eminent domain for the ramp, as well as building an elevated terminus--whereas with the tunnel you don't have to worry about eminent domain, or the structural engineering of a cantilever span (it would just be a cut-and-cover box tunnel), or all the extra engineering to make a terminus in the sky.

[pwp]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

If The Navy Yard becomes the economic hub that it's being projected to be than it would be hard to make an argument against the funding on the federal side.

Especially when considering it will be a green technology hub. What better way to promote it than with a mass transit connection

[omp835]

http://planphilly.com/news/notebook/septa-slowly-moving-forward-city-hall-station-rebuild
Spurred on by the Center City District's plans to remake Dilworth Plaza, SEPTA is slowly moving forward with its own project to reconstruct City Hall station ― despite the fact that there's no money to pay for it.

SEPTA held a sparsely attended public meeting last night to discuss the status of the stalled project.

Senior project manager Terry Heiser said the CCD's project has restarted SEPTA's design work, so that both efforts can be coordinated.

To take into account the CCD development, which will replace the current Dilworth Plaza with a new lawn and a plaza with a water feature, the City Hall reconstruction has been split into three parts.

The first part, which would directly interact with the CCD project, is 75 percent designed.

The second phase, which would affect the Market-Frankord El and trolley platforms and reconfigure the corridor linking the El to the Broad Street Line, has yet to enter design.

And the final part, which would reconstruct the Broad Street Line platforms, is 25 percent designed.

The entire project is also undergoing federally mandated environmental and historic-site reviews.

The CCD effort got two large infusions of cash recently, in the form of a federal TIGER II grant and a state capital grant, that have catapulted it ahead of the SEPTA project, which has been put on hold given state subsidy cuts.

At the same time, Heiser and Sherman Aronson, a senior associate at BLT Architects (http://www.blta.com/), which is designing the project for SEPTA, pointed out that both SEPTA's station reconstruction and the Dilworth Plaza renovation are intimately connected.

The CCD, in its project, plans in installing two glass headhouses that will lead to a new transit concourse it will build underneath the plaza, which will in turn have SEPTA fare gates and steps that lead down to transit platforms.

It's also planning on building two new elevators in the plaza that will service the concourse.

(After they're completed, the elevators ― along with 9 or 10 others to be installed by SEPTA ― would be run by the authority.)

For its part, SEPTA needs to tear up swaths of the plaza to waterproof its station and build a new walkway between the El and Broad Street Line and widen and make handicapped accessible the existing one.

The authority also wants to punch a new shaft through to the plaza to provide the subway platforms with better ventilation.

“These [projects] all go together,” Heiser said.

Indeed, it's unclear what will happen if SEPTA doesn't have the money to move forward with portions of its project in tandem with the CCD development. The authority has said that it doesn't want to be in the position of tearing up CCD's work after the fact.

Still, if funding is secured for the project, it aims at remaking the rider experience at SEPTA's busiest transit hub.

SEPTA wants to rebuild and widen the Broad Street Line platforms, as well as reposition fare gates and bring in more natural sunlight to the station, which would also be made fully accessible.

Heiser is inviting feedback on the project, which he said could still change based on outside input.

Riders can send in comments and questions about the plan to [email protected].

[sciguy0504]

Where are the Philly politicians who can bring home money for this project? Alaska, NYC, CA, TX receive billions in federal money for pork projects and we get nothing for a major transportation project. I blame the people representing us.

[manrush]

Hopefully, both the PATCO cars and the Broad Street Line cars would undergo refurbishment. Perhaps something akin to what the older MARTA trains went through.

[pwp]

This was in a recent PlanPhilly article. Can anyone confirm?

On that front, the administration is expanding the city's bike network ― Lombard and South streets got dedicated bike lanes during repaving last week.

http://planphilly.com/transit-planners-talk-bike-policy-council-aides

[thenbagis]

Bad news for Pennsylvania High-speed Rail and other public transit projects...

Corbett Calls Christie His "Role Model" In Victory Speech
by Chris Brennan

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/cityh...ie_His_Role_Model_In_Victory_Speech.html

Governor-elect Tom Corbett, delivering a victory speech in Pittsburgh, just called New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie his "role model" for moving forward on the state's troubled budget and the public employee pension system. Corbett, who thanked Allegheny County Executive Dan Onorato for a "spirited debate," said he would work to make Pennsylvania more attractive for business investment.

We have seen what Christie is doing in NJ... To quote Yonah Freemark... "Elections have consequences"

[theWatusi]

Just saw one of the new SVs roll through Lansdale. Impressive sounding horn!

[hammersklavier]

Dammit I still haven't seen it in operational service or ridden it yet!

[theWatusi]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Dammit I still haven't seen it in operational service or ridden it yet!

http://www.septa.org/service/rail/silverliner.html

[Phil_North]

News from Philly.com

SEPTA lost its bid for nearly $30 million in federal funds to help pay for a new electronic fare system, leaving it with no clear way to finance the long-awaited $100 million project.

Officials at the agency say they hope to award a contract for the new fare system early next year but don't know where the money will come from.

SEPTA could rely on manufacturers of the fare system to operate and pay for it, in exchange for a cut of the revenue. Other transit agencies, in cities such as Chicago and Washington, are seeking similar deals.

SEPTA had hoped to get some of the money for the fare system from the state, as part of the revenue expected from tolls on I-80. But the U.S. Department of Transportation rejected the state's tolling plan in April.

Agency officials also tried unsuccessfully to get $75 million for the fare system last year from the federal stimulus funding program.

On Friday, SEPTA revenue and ridership chief John McGee said the agency did not get a hoped-for $29.3 million from the "TIGER II" program of the U.S. Department of Transportation.

"We need to make some decisions . . . on how we will advance this from a financial point of view," McGee said. "There's a new sheriff in town, and we have to see how that pans out."

Republican Gov.-elect Tom Corbett and a Republican-led state House and Senate will be in charge in Harrisburg by January, and a new Republican leadership will have control of the U.S. House. That may affect transportation funding in Philadelphia and other cities.

SEPTA wants to award a contract by early next year for a high-tech fare system to replace its current tokens, tickets, and passes for buses, subways, and commuter trains.

Passengers would be able to wave a card with an implanted electronic chip at a sensor on a turnstile or fare box and be on their way.

SEPTA says it wants a system that will allow passengers to use bank cards, prepaid SEPTA cards, and even cell phones to pay for their trips.

McGee said SEPTA expected to get answers to technical questions about the current proposals by the end of the year, "and then it becomes an issue of how do we pay for this."

The manufacturers vying for the SEPTA contract have made "alternative financing proposals," McGee said, without detailing them. The makers are ACS Transport Solutions Group, of Columbia, Md.; Scheidt & Bachmann, of Germany; and Cubic Transportation Systems Inc., of San Diego.

The purchasing process has fallen far behind the schedule announced by SEPTA in November 2008, when the agency said it hoped to award a contract by April 2009.

McGee said SEPTA has continued to make preparations for a new fare system, by upgrading bus and trolley fare boxes and by installing fiber-optic lines into all Broad Street and Market-Frankford subway and elevated stations.

Once a contract is awarded, it will take about two years for a new system to be installed in SEPTA vehicles.

[pwp]

Originally Posted by Phil_North

News from Philly.com

This is so annoying. Just when there's a light at the end of the tunnel, it' extinguished. I can only imagine that Corbitt will not be transportation-friendly.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by pwp

This is so annoying. Just when there's a light at the end of the tunnel, it' extinguished. I can only imagine that Corbitt will not be transportation-friendly.

Maybe its time PAT and Septa get there act together , they are 2 of the worst systems in terms of upgrades and Management in the Northeast. And throwing $$$ at them doesn't seem to help that , so maybe this will wake them up?

[Phil_North]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/201011...r_bidder_critical_of_PATCO_s_choice.html

The long-awaited rebuilding of PATCO's 40-year-old railcars has run into controversy even before the contract for the work has been awarded.

The unsuccessful bidder for the $200 million project, Bombardier Inc. of Canada, says PATCO, in its push to get the contract out, didn't give the company a chance to make a "best and final offer" that would have offered brand-new car shells.

The award of the contract to Alstom Transport Inc. of France to rebuild the cars at its Hornell, N.Y., plant was approved by a Delaware River Port Authority committee on Wednesday.

The contract still needs the approval of the DRPA board, which is scheduled to consider it Dec. 15. PATCO is a subsidiary of the DRPA.

Alstom's bid was $194.2 million. Bombardier's bid was 19 percent higher at $230.3 million.

"We had been working on an enhanced offer and were disappointed we didn't get a chance to present it," said Maryanne Roberts, spokeswoman for Bombardier in Horsham. "We weren't anticipating an award until January."

The project involves gutting PATCO's 120 cars and replacing the interiors, the brake and propulsion systems, the lighting and messaging systems, and the heating and cooling systems. The stainless-steel car shells, wheel assemblies, and traction motors will be reused.

The whole project, including design and construction, is expected to take about five years.

PATCO officials said buying new cars would have cost about twice as much.

Thomas Martin, Bombardier general manager for sales and business development, wrote in a letter sent last Monday to DRPA contract administrator Howard Korsen: "As per our previous discussions, we were under the impression that a BAFO [best and final offer] would be requested by the DRPA, and have been working very hard on cost-saving ideas for a BAFO, which we feel would provide great benefits to the DRPA."

Martin said the best-and-final-offer process would have allowed DRPA "to negotiate the best value for itself, its toll payers, and its riders."

Roberts said Bombardier's alternate approach "would have been to offer new car shells."

Alstom offered a proposal that was "consistently superior at prices that were consistently lower," PATCO general manager Robert Box told the DRPA operations and maintenance committee Wednesday.

The bidding process took nearly two years. After initial proposals were received in August 2009, a third company, Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles of Spain, was eliminated as noncompetitive.

Alstom and Bombardier submitted revised proposals last August, and Alstom received the better score from PATCO on price and technical issues, Box said.

In a letter to Bombardier's Martin on Wednesday, Korsen confirmed that the DRPA "has decided to forgo further negotiations" and award the contract.

Korsen acknowledged that the bidding rules envisioned a two-stage process that permitted the DRPA to request best and final offers. But, he wrote, the rules don't "require that the DRPA request the submission" of such offers.

DRPA Chief Executive John Matheussen said he didn't think PATCO had missed any opportunities by not getting another round of offers.

"I don't believe we do," he said. "We followed very strict guidelines" of the Federal Transit Administration.

There was speculation that the DRPA had wanted to award the contract before the 16-member board changed in January, when Gov. Rendell's six appointees can be replaced by the new governor, Tom Corbett.

Matheussen said the decision to forgo a final round of offers had been driven by a desire to finish the process by February, the end of the six-month period specified in the bidding rules.

That meant approval by a DRPA committee, approval by the full board, and the expiration of a 10-day period during which Gov. Christie can veto DRPA actions, Matheussen said.

"We're feeling we've got the best technical proposal and the best price proposal," Matheussen said.

Bidding for expensive transit projects can end up in court and delay the projects for years, if unsuccessful bidders challenge the fairness of the bid process.

For instance, in Philadelphia, a contract for new SEPTA Regional Rail cars was first awarded in 2004, thrown out because of competitor complaints, and awarded again in 2006.

Transit agencies have learned to proceed cautiously with big procurement projects to avoid such costly lawsuits.

The DRPA hired a consulting firm, LTK Engineering Services of Ambler, to prepare contract specifications and monitor the process. The DRPA also had guidance from a federal transit team.

Bombardier isn't interested in suing over the PATCO contract, Roberts said.

"We've been working on this for two years, and we were just disappointed we didn't get a chance to present our enhanced offer," she said.

[pwp]

It's good to see some traction on this, given that the technology to implement such a system has been around for some time. Found this from a new PlanPhilly article. SEPTA has real-time information on 2 bus routes:

http://appdev.septa.org/busview-beta/?route=33