London Public Transit

[Doady]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Look at Ottawa. They did it for decades.

Really? Ottawa's system is what brought the problem to my attention in the first place. They are converting their system to rail because of this problem.



If you want to use this as an example of how great articulated buses are in heavy snow, then more power to you I guess. There is nothing else I can say.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Doady

There is one major problem with the idea of BRT in London: articulated buses cannot operate in snow. London will never be able to rely heavily on articulated buses to increase the capacity of its system because of the huge amount of snowfall it receives.

Uhh sorry but I rode an articulated bus to and from Western for 4 years (10A Wonderland). Even on some of the coldest, snowiest days, it ran fine.

The only time it got stuck was in a snowbank in a bus bay on an exam day... Fun times lol. Managed to leave with enough time for this kind of uncertainty and caught the next bus just as they were freeing it from the snowbank.
-But that was the exception.

[Djeffery]

Yeah, London Transit has been using articulated buses for decades. You also can't compare Ottawa to London for snow.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

For example, a typical jet pump for home use is 450 US GPH/hr. I have worked in industry where that is their rating per minute.

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/m...3590p.html#srp

No, it's fine, I can divide by 60. I'm just saying it's an odd comment since I gave a very abstract number, since I can't recall what they actually said several years ago.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Yeah, London Transit has been using articulated buses for decades. You also can't compare Ottawa to London for snow.

I think maybe 10-15 years max.

[ssiguy]

There is an option for BRT to make it truly fast, reliable, and serve many more destinations, and ten thousands of more people but will require political backbone from Ottawa...........taking advantage of the city's rail corridors.

Specifically I am thinking about the Port-Stanley to London route and the CP route at Richmond/Oxford. Both could be turned into Transitways and off shots to serve different areas.

The problem is not the suburban areas but the downtown one where the city is quite heavily populated and the roads cannot be widened. A route using the PT/L rail corridor would help bypass busy Wellington in the core area and would be fast and serve the LHSC. Following the corridor to Wellington, the White Oaks branch could get off there for a ROW along the street, the 2nd route would continue south to Southdale/Pond Mills, while the 3rd would continue south past the 401 to serve the massive number of jobs in the area. A St.Thomas commuter bus could also take advantage of the corridor.

The CP route would veer off RR and then take it west to Woodwar Road up to Western/Masonville, the 2nd veer north off Wonderland to the huge developments along Fanshawe and ditto for the 3rd route up to Hyde Park Road serving the very heavily populated area of Cherryhill & Platts Lane. They would still have to go downtown via RR but only to Queen where it would get on the downtown loop and RR merchants couldn't bitch because there woud probbably be no fewer buses going down the route than there are now but they would simply not have a RoW.

I wouldn't touch the current plans for the Fashawe College/Eastern route {although I would extend it to the airport} as the route seems quite logical and efficient.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

There is an option for BRT to make it truly fast, reliable, and serve many more destinations, and ten thousands of more people but will require political backbone from Ottawa...........taking advantage of the city's rail corridors.

Specifically I am thinking about the Port-Stanley to London route and the CP route at Richmond/Oxford. Both could be turned into Transitways and off shots to serve different areas.

The problem is not the suburban areas but the downtown one where the city is quite heavily populated and the roads cannot be widened. A route using the PT/L rail corridor would help bypass busy Wellington in the core area and would be fast and serve the LHSC. Following the corridor to Wellington, the White Oaks branch could get off there for a ROW along the street, the 2nd route would continue south to Southdale/Pond Mills, while the 3rd would continue south past the 401 to serve the massive number of jobs in the area. A St.Thomas commuter bus could also take advantage of the corridor.

The CP route would veer off RR and then take it west to Woodwar Road up to Western/Masonville, the 2nd veer north off Wonderland to the huge developments along Fanshawe and ditto for the 3rd route up to Hyde Park Road serving the very heavily populated area of Cherryhill & Platts Lane. They would still have to go downtown via RR but only to Queen where it would get on the downtown loop and RR merchants couldn't bitch because there woud probbably be no fewer buses going down the route than there are now but they would simply not have a RoW.

I wouldn't touch the current plans for the Fashawe College/Eastern route {although I would extend it to the airport} as the route seems quite logical and efficient.

Why would you convert a rail line (from St Thomas to London) to BRT?

[Djeffery]

The LPS railway doesn't go to Wellington, it goes to Commissioners and Adelaide and then to Southdale and Pond Mills. It's also a single track, so it's not very wide. You'd never get approval to widen it to allow buses south of Commissioners through the Ponds (or Adelaide would have been connected by now).

The CP line cross north of Oxford at the river, west of Richmond, not sure what you mean by Woodward Ave, which is what Platts Lane becomes, south of Oxford. The CP line also is a single track and elevated along most of it's passage from Talbot to Wonderland, so again, would be very expensive to make wide enough for a transitway. Not to mention the various bridges and underpasses that would also need to be replaced, (like the one that was just done 3 years ago) .

[ssiguy]

^^^^ Because the BRT offers far more flexibility. The P/L line doesn't even go remotely close to White Oaks and the CP Richmond line again is to far from Western. In other words by using BRT you get the advantage of interlining which results in people being able to get downtown without a transfer.

An LRT would also be more expensive as all of these corridors are single tracked, would need to be electrified, would get huge blow back from RR merchants and probably Western as well. Also downtown merchants would have none of it as they have already endured construction on Dundas Place, then COVID, now the downtown loop, and to expect them to again allow the streets to be torn up for streetcar/LRT tracks would be more than they could bare.

An interlined BRT Transitway would allow the system to be fast, reliable, and serve tens of thousands of more people and hundreds of more destinations.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I think maybe 10-15 years max.

Quick search of LTC site says 2002 and 2003.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Doady

Really? Ottawa's system is what brought the problem to my attention in the first place. They are converting their system to rail because of this problem.

If you want to use this as an example of how great articulated buses are in heavy snow, then more power to you I guess. There is nothing else I can say.

It's a problem, but only under certain circumstances. Roads do get cleared of snow, even in wintry Ottawa.

I thought Ottawa's bigger and consistent issue was the bus congestion in the city core, because the bus transit capacity couldn't meet demand.

[ssiguy]

I lived in Ottawa, and yes the congestion was the biggest problem. You would get days when the buses had problems but even in Ottawa they were very few and far between. When there was a major storm all the offices, schools, and businesses would shut down anyway.

[jammer139]

London could see 10 EV buses on road by mid 2024 with this plan. Of note is a purchasing deal with Burlington Transit for bulk purchasing to gain some savings.



https://london.ctvnews.ca/london-tra...leet-1.5918793

[ssiguy]

It's good news and a step in the right direction. I believe the entire BRT articulated bus fleet will be electric from Day 1.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by jammer139

London could see 10 EV buses on road by mid 2024 with this plan. Of note is a purchasing deal with Burlington Transit for bulk purchasing to gain some savings.



https://london.ctvnews.ca/london-tra...leet-1.5918793

I really wish the province would do bulk orders for the smaller transit agencies to lower the costs.

[tyeman200]

I just find it crazy how fast LTC is going through buses now. In 2000, you could see some LTC buses from 35 years ago still running, we had the oldest fleet.

Now, we retire buses too fast. You all remember the New Flyer Inveros we had? The ones that caught fire a couple times, those were all retired within 10 years of being bought. Some went to Ottawa where they still use them, and some other places. Oldest buses on the road are probably the articulated buses we got in 2003.

[jammer139]

City decides to use the $120M to rebuild the LTC offices and garage on Highbury. Prepare it for an EV future is supposed to be the motivation. Would like to hear the date when the last fossil fueled bus purchase will happen. Would be helpful to hear the plan and vision from LTC leadership on setting that date.



https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...c-headquarters

[ssiguy]

Well at least the city isn't going to miss out on those senior level funding dollars.

Obviously would have preferred getting the North & West corridors moving but this is still a good investment. The reality is that if London is going to transition over to an all electric fleet it has to have not just the buses but also the garage & maintenance facilities to do it.

The current facility is woefully inadequate and outdated and any future expansion plans {both BRT and regular routes} will not be able to take place without it. It's not like this a quick attempt to spend money as this proposal, as noted by the LFP, has been on the LT priority list for many years so it is a very good use of funds.

[haljackey]

LTC is struggling to keep up with increased ridership demand. Lack of buses and drivers

https://london.ctvnews.ca/video?cid=...clipId=2529542

We're back to 90% of pre-pandemic usage, and over 100% on weekends.

[jammer139]

Rebuild of Highbury LTC facility costs balloon to over $330M.


LFP- https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...oubles-to-332m