Retail News

[adam]

Further to the point I just made, Mac doesn't have the same issues with their homecoming as Queen's.

[bornagainbiking]

You want retail you need people. Montreal and New york have plenty of lofts.
Buy up every vacant building, gut them and build loft condos.
Housing prices are still alittle steep for a new home owner or a good deal for an empty nester who winters elsewhere.
Set up starter condos for the single crowd and they will live downtown not in the suburbs. They will need a grocery store and a hardware store. So a smaller scale Sobeys and a home hardware.
Funny other towns have great successes from things we have.
New York has Central park but we don't have much around Gage park.
A casino downtown get real!
We are trying to get rid of the Bingo hall and the peep shows.
lets look at getting people who will force business with a need.
Bring the shows back downtown. People will walk to King and mary to see the movie hall and then grab a drink on the way home to Durand on an evening stroll that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[adam]

I am looking forward to the day when I can catch a movie and a drink within walking distance, Bornagain.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by Blitz

The casino has worked for Windsor. It employs over 4000 people and having a major employer that is separate from the auto industry was and still is very important for the city. The expansion has brought in big-name acts that casinos in Detroit can't compete with.

So Windsor has a dying auto sector and likely a casino in long term decline. Fantastic.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by bornagainbiking

A casino downtown get real!
We are trying to get rid of the Bingo hall and the peep shows.

Apples and oranges

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by drpgq

So Windsor has a dying auto sector and likely a casino in long term decline. Fantastic.

The Windsor casino is not in long term decline. In fact, with the exception of the current year, it has been a very strong performer. 2008 saw a dramatic decline in US tourism, something that took its toll on the entire Ontario tourism industry this year, not just casinos. This is nearly all attributable to the current U.S. recession. Come 2010, the tourism industry will rebound and the casino in Windsor will return to profit. In the meantime, it continues to offer 4000 decent local jobs and contributes $6 million to the municipality's annual tax coffers. And that is, in a word, fantastic.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by adam

The article has nothing to do with what we are talking about. It is about Queens "student ghetto" area. Not the downtown. We are talking about downtown Hamilton, not Mac's student ghetto (Emerson St. and surrounding area).

Um, Queens 'student ghetto' is in downtown Kingston. Just like what you'd end up with in downtown Hamilton, which would effectively recreate the conditions that have contributed to Kingston's woes. Better to learn from other cities' mistakes rather than repeat them.

[FairHamilton]

Is it just me or is markbarbera now trolling?

The Windsor casino is not in long term decline. In fact, with the exception of the current year, it has been a very strong performer. 2008 saw a dramatic decline in US tourism, something that took its toll on the entire Ontario tourism industry this year, not just casinos. This is nearly all attributable to the current U.S. recession.

30 Percent revenue drop reported in November 2007 over previous year (2006), http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...50330/0/auto01

And I'm not aware of the 2007 US recession. If you are saying only in 2008 then you appear to be wrong and 2 years in a row make a trend, which is poised to continue through 2009.

In the meantime, it continues to offer 4000 decent local jobs

3000 jobs (1000 part-time) from the Windsor Star in April 2008. http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/ne...3-cf5cc531a7b5

Still significant number, but you threw out a number that is 33% over-estimation.

Um, Queens 'student ghetto' is in downtown Kingston. Just like what you'd end up with in downtown Hamilton, which would effectively recreate the conditions that have contributed to Kingston's woes. Better to learn from other cities' mistakes rather than repeat them.

Queens Student Enrollment (17,000+) vs. a Hamilton satellite campus I suggested (a few hundred students). Have you lost site of what I suggested? What I suggested was a graduate school campus from a university outside of Hamilton.

Now who's talking apples & oranges. BTW, the Queens Ghetto is adjacent to downtown and not downtown as it's a little North-West of the downtown.

[adam]

Sometimes its hard to tell if someone is just uninformed about a subject or trolling.. wish there was an easier way to tell!

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

Is it just me or is markbarbera now trolling?

Having an opinion other than that of yours does not constitute trolling. I take great exception to being labelled as such, and you should exercise caution before utilizing the troll label as some sort of straw man tactic.

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

30 Percent revenue drop reported in November 2007 over previous year (2006), http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...50330/0/auto01

And I'm not aware of the 2007 US recession.

Are you aware of a Canadian dollar at par with the US dollar in 2007, and the negative impact it had on Ontario tourism as a whole in 2007?

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

- 3000 jobs (1000 part-time) from the Windsor Star in April 2008. http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/ne...3-cf5cc531a7b5

Still significant number, but you through out a number that is 33% over-estimation.

The 3000 you are referencing is the Casino's unionized workers, not the full workforce. And lets not forget the spin-off employment for surrounding businesses, and the construction jobs created by Caesar's multi-year expansion project.

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

Queens Student Enrollment (17,000+) vs. a Hamilton satellite campus I suggested (a few hundred students). Have you lost site of what I suggested? What I suggested was a graduate school campus from a university outside of Hamilton.

Now who's talking apples & oranges. BTW, the Queens Ghetto is adjacent to downtown and not downtown as it's a little North-West of the downtown.

While Aberdeen is two blocks from the western boundary of the Kingston Downtown BIA, it is actually part of downtown Kingston.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by adam

Sometimes its hard to tell if someone is just uninformed about a subject or trolling.. wish there was an easier way to tell!

Well, the purpose of Adam's most recent post was easy to determine...

From the Urban Dictionary:

trolling: Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Having an opinion other than that of yours does not constitute trolling. I take great exception to being labelled as such, and you should exercise caution before utilizing the troll label as some sort of straw man tactic.

I simply asked a question, if you were trolling and you answered. I think that's fair, on both sides.

Are you aware of a Canadian dollar at par with the US dollar in 2007, and the negative impact it had on Ontario tourism as a whole in 2007?

Yes, I am aware of that. I was merely countering your agrument that 2008 was an exception year. Thank-you for now agreeing 2008 was not an exception, but a continuation of 2007's declilne.

The 3000 you are referencing is the Casino's unionized workers, not the full workforce. And lets not forget the spin-off employment for surrounding businesses, and the construction jobs created by Caesar's multi-year expansion project.

I won't dispute there would be some spin off from those jobs, but I don't think any greater urban renewal has occurred with the casino. Something Hamilton (as well as Windsor and Niagara Falls) needs.

While Aberdeen is two blocks from the western boundary of the Kingston Downtown BIA, it is actually part of downtown Kingston.

So politically, but not geographically, and still comparing a school with 17,000+ students to a suggested campus of grad students. Apples and Cadillacs.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

Yes, I am aware of that. I was merely countering your agrument that 2008 was an exception year. Thank-you for now agreeing 2008 was not an exception, but a continuation of 2007's declilne.

At risk of belabouring a point, I certainly do not agree with your coclusion here. Overall, 2007 was a good year for Caesars Windsor The final quarter of the calendar year was impacted negatively by an unusually strong Canadian dollar, but their fiscal 2006-07 finished well in the black. It is the fiscal 2007-08 which posted the first loss of the casino's history. You see, November 2007 is part of the fiscal year that you originally commented on, so there is no multi-year trend happening at all.

Furthermore, the hardships facing the casino for their fiscal 2008-09 are of a completely different nature to the issue of late 2007. It is no longer a strong Canadian dollar that is the business challenge at hand. Rather the challenge is a lack of consumer confidence brought on by the global recession, compunded by a primary demographic most heavily impacted by the recession (visitors employed in the auto sector).

The decline in tourism is not going to be a multi-year phenomena for the casino seeing that the impact of this global recession on American tourists visiting Canada will likely ease towards the end of 2009. And the impact on the casino will be countered by domestic visits, which traditionally increase during economic slowdowns. Which is why the casino business, while not immune to the impact of a recession, is generally considered recession-proof.

Did I mention that Caesar's contributes $6 million in taxes to the City of Windsor each year? A university satellite campus, while a noble thought, would contribute about six million less than that amount. And this is really my point. I am not saying that no other option besides a Casino should be considered for this site, but adding more institutional facilities to the downtown core causes a drag on tax revenue that this city cannot afford. Investments downtown need to be revenue generators. Otherwise the increasing tax burden will added to the tax burden of residents.

[FairHamilton]

^ Well neither are going to happen so all the above points are moot.

[adam]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Having an opinion other than that of yours does not constitute trolling.

While Aberdeen is two blocks from the western boundary of the Kingston Downtown BIA, it is actually part of downtown Kingston.

You've done some great googling to find some info on the subject and I commend you on that. But I've lived as a student at both Universities and believe me - you are comparing apples to oranges just has FairHamilton has already said. And your opinion is fine, but if its based on faulty information then it doesn't hold any water. An undergrad party in the Queen's student ghetto cannot be compared to grad-student living in Hamilton's downtown core.

[markbarbera]

Adam you make incorrect assumptions about my familiarity with Kingston, as well as my own undergrad experiences. It goes well beyond Google. Despite your claims otherwise, everything I have said about Kingston and its university is correct.

As far as downtown Hamilton goes, undergrad or grad, it still would be a financial mistake to relenquish a property with zoning that generates tax revenue so to build an institution that generates zero tax dollars for the city. The argument of the net benfit of a student presence downtown is flawed. The contribution students make to their surrounding area is generally overstated, be they grads or undergrads, particularly in the context of a satellite campus. The downtown campus Mac already has at John and Main has had neglible impact on neighbouring businesses, save for the revenue at the area parking lots that the evening students park at once a week. But since the property on Main was previously a courthouse, there was no loss of potential tax revenue when Mac took it over, and an empty building was occupied by suitable alternative use. That is a benefit that certainly would not be realized by making something like City Centre a satellite campus.

There are plenty of alternative opportunities to redevelop the City Centre that would be of greater benefit to the city. Despite its current state, it is prime real estate whose value would be squandered if the city were to allow the placement of any kind of institutional facility here.

[adam]

This view is very short-sighted. You state a tax revenue loss would be the main result of grad students downtown. You forget that people use services and those services are provided by businesses. Forget about "Cheques Cashed", bingo halls and dollar stores. I mean real businesses that students use. You have to look at the big picture.We need to get more middle and upper class people into the downtown to stimulate growth. This is an excellent opportunity to do that.

[markbarbera]

And what new businesses would be attracted by a couple hundred university students who spend a couple of weekdays attending a course downtown?

You accuse me of being short-sighted, but let's consider Mac's downtown campus for a moment. It has been at Main and John for about a decade now. What long term benefit has it brought for that area? What new businesses were drawn to that location that has enriched the downtown (besides parking lots)? Where are these middle and upper class people you claim would be drawn by a downtown campus? Why would it happen for a campus at City Centre and not for one at Main and John?

What is short-sighted is proposals like that which diminish the tax base for the city without any material gain for the community left to foot the bill.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

You accuse me of being short-sighted, but let's consider Mac's downtown campus for a moment. It has been at Main and John for about a decade now. What long term benefit has it brought for that area? What new businesses were drawn to that location that has enriched the downtown (besides parking lots)? Where are these middle and upper class people you claim would be drawn by a downtown campus? Why would it happen for a campus at City Centre and not for one at Main and John?

Mac has a downtown campus? I won't claim to be all that knowledgeable on what goes on in that building, but realcity posted the below a few pages back,

Mac's downtown 'campus' is only administration for "Continuing Ed", NO STUDENTS."

Is that truly the case?

[SteelTown]

There's continuing education students, which means classes during the evenings and weekends. The rest is office space for payroll and the purchasing department.