Ikea Winnipeg | Completed

[SpongeG]

most stores look the same these days

probably something like this - two floors of retail over the parking



this one in Minnesota is pretty much identical to the one in Coquitlam

[1ajs]

i caught a glimps of a rendering but there was some dude in the way and it was so fast i didnt get much

the residents to the north are woried about noise bouncing back at them cause of the buildings along the tracks......... and asking for a walls to cut back on it wtf i live near the tracks it aint that bad hell theres times u can hear a pin drop

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

most stores look the same these days

probably something like this - two floors of retail over the parking



this one in Minnesota is pretty much identical to the one in Coquitlam

.......Oh, the bad memory of having wasted two hours of my life in those two particular stores!

[viperred88]

its a nice touch that they have parking under the building.

[viperred88]

let me see we are going to rebuild a freeway of a bridge the Disraeli and we have a downtown that can handle about 50 000 suv driving suburbanites.

And we can't allocate some of the funds for the road expansion of sterling and kenaston to the disraeli rehab. hmmm

we have multiple roadways downtown that allow for quick and entrance and exits to downtown thats alot better than st james or how sterling and keneston could ever be. Plus we have transit hub downtown that go and from any area of the city.

[1ajs]

big box like being with other big box so they can draw off the other big box vise versa

[viperred88]

downtown is losing out big time for not having Ikea as a new anchor to downtown. What ever happened to all those so called tax incentives to revitalize downtown like they did with the MTS Centre. With those tax incentives they could build a couple of mix-use parkades. St marys road could be tunneled therefore people can push there shopping carts the parkades or you can build a catwalk (bridge) over the road leading into the parkade.

Those tax incentives would help compete with the cheap land in the suburbs.

Another Ideal location for ikea in downtown would be to have ikea in the Bay building since the bay is downsizing its existence downtown down two floors. The bay could move into city place mall. (they would have to renovate the mall to accomodate the bay but thats goes without saying.) If that opportunity don't work then Ikea could retrofit or build on the canada post site off graham.

it seems its all too late as it seems ikea is getting fasttracked regardless of public consultation

[RAFS]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

there any photos on the net at all for this thing i saw some vage clips on ctv tonight but nothing to get shots of blah

I went to the open house and took my wife's camera (and I knew I should have taken the extra battery!). I got 2 shots with the camera, then the rest I took with my iPhone. They are not great, but here they are. I have also included a scan of the 2 letters the residents were giving out, about the "free" wall they would like built.

There were more pictures I should have taken, but the gentleman from MMM Group (http://www.mmm.ca) said he would look at getting this information put onto the city website.

Again, I apologize for the crappy pictures!

[flatlander]

Oh, pity the poor residents of south Tuxedo, complaining about increased traffic. The irony!

At least I think it's ironic - i an never tell anymore since that stupid Alanis song.

[1ajs]

lame we don't have a wall along cp... just a fence

[1ajs]

only thing on the cities site is this transit thing... so people will be able to bus right to the doors of ikea



that parking lot is so going to be grid lock if they do the entry and exit like that let alone are fire trucks even going to be able to get in there?

[c vist]

Originally Posted by rgalston

I love open houses ...
and of course to see Ken Klassen walk around with a stressed look.

[MooseJets]

Originally Posted by flatlander

Oh, pity the poor residents of south Tuxedo, complaining about increased traffic. The irony!

At least I think it's ironic - i an never tell anymore since that stupid Alanis song.

Increased traffic = growing city = progress. If they can't accept that then they can move to the country.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by MooseJets

Increased traffic = growing city = progress. If they can't accept that then they can move to the country.

If they "can't accept" it, they have the right to campaign against it as every other citizen has the right to campaign against whatever they "can't accept". It is not a requirement of living in a city that you have to accept development proposals that would reduce your enjoyment of life in the name of the idol of "progress".

[Only The Lonely..]

Yeesh. Jane Jacobs is probably rolling in her grave..

[vid]

If they got rid of the store they would have even more parking!

I like how in that diagram there are only about a dozen cars in the whole parking lot.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by vid

If they got rid of the store they would have even more parking!

I like how in that diagram there are only about a dozen cars in the whole parking lot.

Hey, that's Winnipeg...each car needs a 10 stall buffer zone around it.

You know, in case you wanted to take your Corvette or rusted (vintage) '89 Buick Century to do some discount furniture shopping.

[viperred88]

well atleast someone in this believes in my idea of ikea in downtown.

shidelman you profitting jack ass
---------
wfp
Saturday Special
Thinking outside the big box
They dominate today's retail scene, but are they here to stay?
Bartley Kives
1:00 AM | Comments (1)
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The former Linens ’n Things on St. James Street has found a new tenant. But U.S. centres are finding a problem with big boxes remaining empty. ( KEN GIGLIOTTI / WINNIPEG FREE PRESS)
FIVE years ago, writer and artist Julia Christensen looked around her hometown of Bardstown, Ky. and noticed two big empty build ings where Wal-Marts used to stand.
The first wound up being bulldozed. The second remains empty. And a third, larger Wal-Mart stands on the edge of town.
Inspired by the comings and goings of the world's best-known big-box chain, Christensen travelled to 50 U.S. cities and towns to find out what happens when massive retailers pack up and leave their big-box shells behind.
"These buildings always last longer than the businesses they were built for. It is inevitable they will be abandoned," said the author of
Big Box Reuse
, which chronicles how 14 communities converted their empty Wal-Mart and Kmart superstores into the likes of schools, churches and seniors' centres.
In the case of Bardstown, business at Wal-Mart was booming and the chain outgrew its downtown space. But other North American big-box retailers are reeling from the combined effects of the worldwide recession and changing consumer tastes.
Linens 'n Things filed for bankruptcy last October and Circuit City followed suit in January. As many as 14,000 U.S. retail stores may close in 2009, CNN has reported, compounding big-box vacancies at shopping malls and retail power centres.
Even in relatively recession-proof Canada, home-improvement chains are scaling back big-box expansions and planning to open smaller stores to cater to younger consumers who want to spend less time wandering around retail aisles, the Toronto Star reported last week.
The future of the big box, which has ruled the retail roost for nearly two decades in North America, is beginning to come into question, even as developers plan to build thousands more of the massive stores.
In Winnipeg, a joint venture between developer Fairweather Properties and European furniture giant IKEA could place up to 10 new big-box stores -- including a 350,000-square-foot IKEA anchor tenant -- on 197 acres of industrial land at Kenaston Boulevard and Sterling Lyon Parkway.
The $400-million Tuxedo Yards Redevelopment, which faces a public hearing at city hall on Wednesday, has politicians excited about the potential addition of $6 million a year in new property, business and education taxes, once the entire development is built out in 2018.
The city and province are prepared to spend $22 million on infrastructure improvements to make the IKEA project happen. But critics say politicians should demand something more than mere development in return.
"I think IKEA is a great idea. The issue is what happens around the IKEA store," said Doug Corbett, an award-winning architect at Winnipeg firm Smith Carter, who began his career designing shopping malls before specializing in sustainable building projects.
Instead of placing big-box stores in the middle of a sea of asphalt, the city should demand more landscaping, less homogenous buildings and a site design that encourages consumers to walk, instead of drive, from store to store, Corbett said.
Developers stopped building indoor shopping malls when they realized it was cheaper to develop big-box pads, which can be built out in stages and don't require as much maintenance or security.
But just as shopping malls have fallen in and out of vogue -- Winnipeg's Unicity Mall was razed, for example -- the time will come when shoppers begin to think outside the big box, Corbett added.
"They'll be in trouble in a few years, just like the malls. It will be based on consumer habits. People will realize they simply don't need so much stuff," he said.
In the U.S., where big-box vacancy is a genuine problem, communities and non-profit organizations struggle to find new uses for massive buildings abandoned by retail chains, said author Christensen.
As a result, communities should demand more concessions from big-box developers from the outset, she said. Multiple facades will allow big boxes to be reused more often, while landscaping and berms can allow the structures to better fit in with the future urban landscape, she suggested.
But right now, major players in the retail industry are not convinced the end of big-box retailing is nigh, especially north of the 49th parallel.
"I think it's the only game in town at the moment," said John Winter, president of Toronto retail-analysis firm John Winter & Associates, who believes tougher planning regulations in Canada have prevented big-box stores from oversaturating the retail market the way they have in the United States.
During a recession, consumers seek out the savings offered at big-box stores, Winter said. And he rejects the idea consumers are becoming more interested in independent retailers or pedestrian-friendly shopping environments.
"There is this mythology of going back the good old days," he said. "That isn't real. Consumers like choice."
In Winnipeg, pedestrian-friendly developments simply don't perform as well as vehicle-friendly power centres, added Sandy Shindleman, president of Shindico, one of the city's largest and most successful developers.
He cautioned against comparing Winnipeg to denser North American cities such as Vancouver, where some big-box stores are stacked above each other and even IKEA shoppers take public transit to the furniture store and have their purchases delivered.
"In a winter climate, people want more ready access to the stores. Half the year, you can't meander outside," said Shindleman, who does not believe his industry should face more regulation in favour of pedestrian access or other design concessions.
"If we don't have the opportunity to accommodate large retailers, we'll get left behind," he said. "The choice isn't whether people will go to Tuxedo Yards or across the street. It'll be whether they go to Winnipeg, or Minneapolis or Milwaukee."
But even proponents of big-box stores acknowledge the detrimental effects of the developments on the environment. While Wal-Mart has taken big strides toward energy savings, there is no question about the effects of massive parking lots and the greenhouse gases required to get vehicles to fill them.
"You're putting up a few acres of asphalt on moose pasture," joked retail analyst Winter.
Critics such as architect Corbett were even more scathing. "I think it's horrendous: A lot of big, open parking lots between buildings. No landscaping at all," he said, surmising there could have been a way to convince IKEA to set up downtown.
Author Christensen, meanwhile, believes cities should eventually find the gumption to say no to more big boxes.
"We have to stop building these buildings. They're environmentally unfriendly and they're not friendly to pedestrians or communities," she said.
But that isn't likely to happen as long as demand remains high and taxes continue to flow from big boxes.
"In general, the public likes them," said Shindico president Shindleman. "For all the efforts of planners, everywhere in North America, the projects that are successful financially are the ones that are successful for the taxation authorities and the lenders."
bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca

Building a bigger box
Facts about the IKEA project, officially known as the Tuxedo Yards Redevelopment, which faces a public hearing at city hall on Wednesday:
Location: 197 acres of land at on either side of Sterling Lyon Parkway, west of Kenaston Boulevard.
Owner: Kenaston Intermodal and a numbered company owned by Kenaston Intermodal's owners, Wayne and Garth Nemy.
Developers: Fairweather Properties and IKEA Canada, who plan to buy the land and subdivide it into 31 lots.
Proposed development: 1.5 million square feet of commercial space, including a 350,000-square-foot IKEA store, a 200,000-square-foot big-box store, two big boxes larger than 140,000 square feet and several smaller stores.
Possible development in addition to commercial space: A 16-screen movie theatre, a 100-room hotel, a 500-unit condo building and a 150,000-square-foot office park.
Development schedule: 2010-2018, pending approval.
Assessed value of the existing land: $5 million.
Taxes paid last year: $213,000.
Proposed value of land, once the project is built out: $139.5 million.
Possible taxes, once the project is built out: $6 million.
Road improvements required for project: $26.5 million worth of street widenings, new turning lanes and new signals on Sterling Lyon Parkway, Kenaston Boulevard and Shaftesbury Boulevard.
City and provincial portion of roadwork: $22 million ($14 million from city, $8 million from the province).
Parking stalls: 7,517 over entire development.
Bike and pedestrian access: 3.5-metre-wide asphalt paths.
Winnipeg Transit access: Crosstown West route, initially.

[Only The Lonely..]

Tuxedo Yards; the challenge

Winnipeg Free Press Editorial - March 14, 2009


There is no "normal" way of approving a development like the proposed Tuxedo Yards Redevelopment, which is steaming toward approval at city hall with such Titanic inertia that it seems unstoppable. Which is not to say that it should be stopped, but it is to say that full-speed ahead is not the most prudent course to set, as the current economic crisis and history attest.

As conceived, Tuxedo Yards is a commercial colossus by any standard, and certainly by the standards of Winnipeg. At 1.5 million square feet of commercial space, it is the largest commercial development in Winnipeg's history, eclipsing the reigning and nearby champ, Polo Park, at 1.3 million square feet. It will cost a projected $400 million to build over 10 years and requires the city to upend its long-term plan and rethink its infrastructure priorities.

The stack of paper reports and documents made available in advance of the single hearing scheduled for public review of the project indicates that much careful thought has gone into it over a long period of time, all of it, unfortunately, behind closed doors. The material was publicly posted March 5, three months after the announcement in December that the project existed and would be anchored by an IKEA store. The release came a scant 13 days in advance of the public hearing, but astonishingly 11 days earlier than required, apparently an acknowledgement that more time than usual will be required for the public to come to grips with the implications of so great an undertaking.

Critics of secrecy, the city's often uninspired planning and of elected officials who seem open for business at any cost have rightly complained that it appears the project is being rammed down Winnipeg's throat with take it or leave it brinksmanship.

They correctly point out that the hearing is overloaded with far too many complex issues -- rezonings, variances, agreements and studies (20 not counting sub-agreements) -- to be adequately and critically reviewed in a single day. This public review process is woefully inadequate for a project of this size, one that will affect development and transportation planning forever. It reflects a political arrogance and condescension that is shameful. If it is that the city cannot expand the time for hearings because it has agreed in secret not to, then the shame should fall on the mayor's office and its occupants. Councillors should look closely at a recent report calling for more, not less, public scrutiny at city hall.

Public review, however, is about process and transparency. What of the project itself as presented in some 300 pages of city documents?

Well, obviously, it is big -- or rather, it is big on the drawing board. That at once represents some of the risks and the benefits involved. The site is huge, 200 acres of largely "vacant" land that, oddly, is close to the centre of the city relative to the miles of developing commercial and residential sprawl south of it. It is situated, in fact, to take advantage of sprawl, not to add to it.

While "progressive" thinkers see the project as a betrayal of promises to plan "green," to incorporate more not less public transportation into development, to shrink rather than expand concrete footprints, to put downtown first and more, the fact is that those trains left the station when the Doer government decided to make Crown land the agent of change for sprawling Waverley West.

The infrastructure that is now needed to accommodate that decision might be wasteful and environmentally unfriendly, but it now is needed and will serve the Tuxedo Yards site whether or not it is developed. Kenaston Boulevard, for example, must expand to serve southwestern sprawl with or without IKEA. Tuxedo Yards might speed up the time frame for more paved lanes on existing routes, but it will not create the need.

What it will do is require some new routes, eventually, like a link to Pembina Highway from Waverley Street, and, immediately, a massive expansion of Sterling Lyon Parkway at a cost of $14 million. The developer agrees to pay those costs up front to ensure the expanded roadways are in place before they are actually needed so that they will be there as they are needed. That means that in the unlikely event that no other big box development joins IKEA in Tuxedo Yards, streets immediately serving the site will be overbuilt. That is a risk to both the developer and the city, which has agreed to pay back $14 million in property tax revenues as development grows. But if the project is the success that is imagined, it also means that the capital investment will occur at no loss of existing revenues to the city. Not a bad thing.

And because the development will occur over at least a decade, it means that traffic loads should grow slowly and create time to expand Waverley and Kenaston in a manageable way. Also not a bad thing.

Troubling is the city's assertion that the current low expectations for annual commercial construction are suddenly very optimistic, in line with what would justify 1.5 million new square feet at Tuxedo Yards without harming existing commercial enterprise. The Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce could usefully analyze that claim for the comfort of its members and citizens generally who do not want to see neighbourhood commerce move and concentrate in south Winnipeg.

Other interest groups could usefully examine issues in which they have expertise. Is the very modest transit service plan sufficient? What does it mean that the development would have no negative environmental consequences? Is there sufficient attention being paid to landscaping and screening or are we about to get another Regent Avenue?

There isn't much time. What there is could be used effectively if interest groups concentrate on narrow issues of which they have expertise rather than reaching for broad brushes with which to paint unrealistic alternatives.


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Comments

Posted by:gepinniwMarch 14, 2009 at 9:37 AM
Thank you for exposing the scandalously perfunctory consultation process. City Hall and the province should be deeply ashamed. But while you may accept Waverley West as fait accompli - I and many others do not. You also seem to accept the idea that the developers will "pay" for the necessary infrastructure. This is laughable. What your analysis does not take into account are the externalized costs that this development requires - the cost to the environment and human health (physical and mental), primarily. The writing is on the wall. We are running into very real ecological limits. According to Eva Pip, lake Winnipeg is "dying." Is she some wild- eyed radical? Worldwide oil production has likely hit the "bumpy plateau" predicted by Hubbert. Respected scientists and thinkers the world over are calling for a radical departure from this kind of development. But we, as Winnipeggers, don't seem to be listening. How sad for future generations that we continue to pursue what I would call "development for the desperate."

[newflyer]

Lake Winnipeg is dieing more due to farm chemicals and not because of Swedish furnitire stores, but hey don't let that stop the typical whiner from complaining the city is growing.

I am really looking forward to seeing Route 90 widened and expanded in the coming years.. and if possibile I will be at the Grand Opening of this IKEA.