Halifax Stadium Discussion

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

This is old news from a month ago (March 20, 2012) which was posted in a Moncton thread - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=198260 .

Although not directly related to the Halifax Stadium discussion, it is the type of news that is required in the Halifax area (for example: an option to buy Shannon Park land for a future stadium) to keep people believing that a stadium is on the horizon in the not too distant future.

The goal of obtaining an option to buy 40 acres of Shannon Park land for a stadium was approved by HRM Council on March 27th, 2012. I hope that we will hear of progress in the next couple of months (if not, then supporters need to contact elected representatives to request information).

I just posted this in the "Canadian Cities Proposals" thread earlier today. If you are interested, you can view the imbedded YouTube video.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The city of Moncton is currently seeking proposals for a redevelopment of the current Highfield Square site to include a new 10,000 seat multi events centre and arena. This is a major project for the downtown, estimated to cost in excess of $100M, generating an additional $100M in development of adjacent sites.

This is an abbreviated (and editted) video of the presentation made in city council chambers last week. Four local Moncton architectural firms were invited to share their visions for the site.

• Video Link

I was at the presentation at Moncton City Hall, and the council chambers were overflowing with spectators. This was especially surprising given that the presentation was not that heavily advertised. I found the presentations to be inspiring and the whole exercise surprisingly emotional. I think many in the room felt the same way.

There is consensus In the city as to where the events centre should be built. There is a building consensus in what it should encompass and what it means to the downtown. Because of this, I have little doubt that this project (in some form) will move forward in the next couple of years.

Halifax needs to develop a similar consensus for the stadium project. Once you get the whole of a community behind a project, then it will become inevitable.

Moncton has reached that point with the events centre. Hopefully the same thing will happen in Halifax with the stadium.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I just posted this in the "Canadian Cities Proposals" thread earlier today. If you are interested, you can view the imbedded YouTube video.


I was at the presentation at Moncton City Hall, and the council chambers were overflowing with spectators. This was especially surprising given that the presentation was not that heavily advertised. I found the presentations to be inspiring and the whole exercise surprisingly emotional. I think many in the room felt the same way.

There is consensus In the city as to where the events centre should be built. There is a building consensus in what it should encompass and what it means to the downtown. Because of this, I have little doubt that this project (in some form) will move forward in the next couple of years.

Halifax needs to develop a similar consensus for the stadium project. Once you get the whole of a community behind a project, then it will become inevitable.

Moncton has reached that point with the events centre. Hopefully the same thing will happen in Halifax with the stadium.

This was a top notch presentation and is exactly the type of presentation that Halifax needs for a stadium. I watched the public consultations for a Halifax Stadium and watched one resident after another express their dreams of a Halifax Stadium and CFL team. A Halifax stadium shouldn't be extravagant but it needs to be impressive enough to get residents excited. Watching the Moncton presentation, I could feel the emotion and civic pride in the voices of the speakers - Halifax needs this type of emotion (some of the HRM representatives involved in the Halifax Stadium project showed that type of emotion - they just need to keep it going).

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

This was a top notch presentation and is exactly the type of presentation that Halifax needs for a stadium. I watched the public consultations for a Halifax Stadium and watched one resident after another express their dreams of a Halifax Stadium and CFL team. A Halifax stadium shouldn't be extravagant but it needs to be impressive enough to get residents excited. Watching the Moncton presentation, I could feel the emotion and civic pride in the voices of the speakers - Halifax needs this type of emotion (some of the HRM representatives involved in the Halifax Stadium project showed that type of emotion - they just need to keep it going).

This is comparing apples to oranges. The emotion and civic pride you've seen is fueled by over three decades of stagnation in Moncton's downtown. People who think downtown Halifax has been dead must not have recently visited any of the cities in New Brunswick.

But yes, Halifax does need to continue this public approach toward a stadium. You say a Halifax stadium shouldn't be extravagant... Well, I think we're underestimating the portion of Haligonians pushing for extravagance!

I hope HRM dreams big!

[pchipman]

Speaking of thinking big...has there ever been any talk of putting the stadium near the Seaport market across from the Cunard Center? I know there was some interest in the site for the convention center, but I don't know about the stadium. I was down there today and was reminded of the amount of unused space/parking. There is a large warehouse on the site, which could easily (?) be relocated.

To me this is an ideal location: http://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.637697,...01929&t=h&z=16

Accessibility may not be an issue with a possible third crossing. Also the train station is right there, so it may pair well with developments to rail-based transit in the city. Something like this could really catalyze Halifax's maturation.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by pchipman

Speaking of thinking big...has there ever been any talk of putting the stadium near the Seaport market across from the Cunard Center? I know there was some interest in the site for the convention center, but I don't know about the stadium. I was down there today and was reminded of the amount of unused space/parking. There is a large warehouse on the site, which could easily (?) be relocated.

To me this is an ideal location: http://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.637697,...01929&t=h&z=16

Accessibility may not be an issue with a possible third crossing. Also the train station is right there, so it may pair well with developments to rail-based transit in the city. Something like this could really catalyze Halifax's maturation.

Even without a third crossing, I love this. A downtown stadium would be a dream come true.

[someone123]

I think part of the Commonwealth Games bid included a new arena to be built on that site. At first glance it seems like a great location. It might be a bit more complicated than a greenfield site but it is more convenient, has more character, and is close to the universities.

[Keith P.]

It's an interesting site but access right now is a big problem - narrow one-lane streets and at the very tip of the peninsula, not close to any major arteries. Without some significant changes that is a big problem. Imagine Water St after an event. I cannot imagine any move to rail even if such a project was built there because Transit is so biased against it and the capital costs would be huge.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It's an interesting site but access right now is a big problem - narrow one-lane streets and at the very tip of the peninsula, not close to any major arteries. Without some significant changes that is a big problem. Imagine Water St after an event. I cannot imagine any move to rail even if such a project was built there because Transit is so biased against it and the capital costs would be huge.

This is an old way of thinking. We do not need highways surrounding the stadium.

University students will be one of the largest group of attendees to the stadium, and something this close is definitely walkable even for non-students.

Precluding rail-based transit is unwise.

Considering this site's use of existing infrastructure, and the boost the restaurants, retail outlets, and hotels would experience, it is an assumption to claim 'huge' capital costs before considering the benefits.

This site is great for the community concept everyone has been preaching.

[W.Sobchak]

It isn't an old way of thinking, not in this instance. Short of re-laying the grid, it is a bottleneck. Now if the stadium was more towards the north end of the peninsula, you would have healthier traffic flow to/from. We do have to face the fact that at least 60% of the spectators would drive, and that's being generous. It would take time to get number down, but it would given the right incentives.

I hate Shannon Park as an option personally. It might as well be (sorry MonctonRad) Casino New Brunswick in Moncton, on the water. If this Stadium is going to be a "good business case", then it needs to be built in an established entertainment area, that has established transportation links, car/transit. Rail can be hoped for, but not depended on, as MT has obtusely displayed.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by W.Sobchak

I hate Shannon Park as an option personally. It might as well be (sorry MonctonRad) Casino New Brunswick in Moncton, on the water. If this Stadium is going to be a "good business case", then it needs to be built in an established entertainment area, that has established transportation links, car/transit. Rail can be hoped for, but not depended on, as MT has obtusely displayed.

Casino New Brunswick should have been built downtown. Nobody on the Moncton thread likes it's current location.

Maybe Casino NB should have been built at Shannon Park..... at least it has a lighthouse!

BTW, I agree that Shannon Park would be a nightmare site for the stadium. I am neutral about building it near the seaport though. I fear it would be cold and foggy and vehicular access would be a significant issue. It however would be handy to the universities and might give a boost to the south end of downtown.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by W.Sobchak

It isn't an old way of thinking, not in this instance. Short of re-laying the grid, it is a bottleneck. Now if the stadium was more towards the north end of the peninsula, you would have healthier traffic flow to/from. We do have to face the fact that at least 60% of the spectators would drive, and that's being generous. It would take time to get number down, but it would given the right incentives.

I hate Shannon Park as an option personally. It might as well be (sorry MonctonRad) Casino New Brunswick in Moncton, on the water. If this Stadium is going to be a "good business case", then it needs to be built in an established entertainment area, that has established transportation links, car/transit. Rail can be hoped for, but not depended on, as MT has obtusely displayed.

A stadium on Shannon Park isn't as dreadful a location as Casino New Brunswick's. Shannon Park, surrounded by some density and situated along the water, has more options for spin-off developments and much less car dependency.

For a stadium on the peninsula, what other options do we have that haven't been raised? I don't think Windsor Park is overly popular. Developing on the Commons likely wouldn't fly either...

[q12]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

For a stadium on the peninsula, what other options do we have that haven't been raised? I don't think Windsor Park is overly popular. Developing on the Commons likely wouldn't fly either...

How about the sands of salter.

This:


Was turned into this:


And a stadium will be built again here this summer. If the weather is decent enough for beach volleyball than it shouldn't be a problem for football (especially since football takes place during the good weather months).

http://www.novascotiawebcams.com/hal...at-salter.html
http://sandjamhalifax.ca/index.htm


How about this beauty on our waterfront?


http://inhabitat.com/files/hmstadium2.jpg


http://inhabitat.com/files/aerial2.jpg


http://inhabitat.com/files/hmstadium1.jpg


http://inhabitat.com/files/stad-interior.jpg

Website: http://inhabitat.com/herzog-and-de-m...mouth-stadium/

[RyeJay]

The sands of salter, possibly with the lot next to it, may be an option?

The residents in Bishops Landing may light themselves on fire if a stadium proposal were to ever be approved here though...

And maybe a stadium could take a cue from Purdy's Wharf and be built on the water?

[q12]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

The sands of salter, possibly with the lot next to it, may be an option?

The residents in Bishops Landing may light themselves on fire if a stadium proposal were to ever be approved here though...

And maybe a stadium could take a cue from Purdy's Wharf and be built on the water?

This is what I'm thinking. Put it out further on to the water and give it a classy exterior that would make it more appealing to the Bishops.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by q12

This is what I'm thinking. Put it out further on to the water and give it a classy exterior that would make it more appealing to the Bishops.

Though the costs would be minimal compared to the sum required for the stadium, it would almost be a shame that a portion of the boardwalk would have to be moved outward after just being recently completed It would obviously be worth it.

[q12]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Though the costs would be minimal compared to the sum required for the stadium, it would almost be a shame that a portion of the boardwalk would have to be moved outward after just being recently completed It would obviously be worth it.

It's right next to the Metro Park parkade, so it has lots of parking close by. The more I think about it the more I like this location. 10,000 people at friday nights Mooseheads game had no major issues coming and going from downtown.

[wespidel]

It's interesting how it all played out in the end. I was totally surprised to see zero support from the NS govt. especially to pass on two World class international FIFA World. Cup events. They were the only provincial govt. ever not to support a major stadium for their own capital and by the way they could of changed the small recommended 10 to 14 thousand bare boned permanent seat community stadium easily by injected 50 to 60 million into a CFL model modestly priced stadium. I 'm totally convinced now that this could have been happened, where the provincial had 100 million to give to two dying paper mills and over 200 million to the Irvings and 56 million for a new convention centre that was not near as popular as a major stadium. One of the city Councillors said that the reason the NS govt. didn't support the stadium project was because the stadium was too small! Well if that was the case why didn't they step up to help build a CFL model stadium. I seriously believe if the NS govt. would have contributed 50 to 60 million to build a bigger and better stadium, Halifax would have put in 40 million and not just twenty. I was also shocked that the Feds would give 51 million towards the new convention centre without getting the NS govt. to commit to a major stadium for their own capital city to be part of FIFA and to attract the 10th CFL franchise to Halifax. I truly believe this will play a huge part in the outcome of the next provincial govt. Also I totally agree with Fenwick, Halifax should be thinking bigger and better and build it right! Especially now where there is absolutely no excuse or a minimum requirement of only 10 thousand permanent seats.

[Waye Mason]

I think if we were talking about a renovation for Metro Centre to bring it to 15K capacity I'd be excited. The fact that Moncton is building a new arena does not compel me to want to build a stadium.

The Coliseum is too small, as it is the place that most bands play on the way to Halifax/NS, and has to serve not just Moncton but traffic from Fredericton and Saint John. I'm glad to see them talking about a new, bigger facility.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by wespidel

I truly believe this will play a huge part in the outcome of the next provincial govt.

This may be why the provincial government said no. A strong narrative exists outside of HRM that "Halifax gets too much."

Essentially, after Halifax received the 'gift' that is the shipbuilding contract, after the 'gift' that is federal funding for a convention centre, if we also received a stadium then rural Nova Scotia would look at every crack in their under-used roads with increasing bitterness. Rural Nova Scotia wants new hospitals, new schools, new public offices, new parks....

The fact that Halifax is more capable of generating a return on investments doesn't phase the townies.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

The fact that Halifax is more capable of generating a return on investments doesn't phase the townies.

Even if we forget about that, we will soon be to the point where about half of people in NS live in the Halifax area. Already about 2/3 of people in NS who live within an hour or so of Halifax (mostly Lunenburg, Kings, and Hants) and could easily visit something like a stadium. In other words, it makes perfect sense for a large proportion of provincial money to be spent in Halifax because that's where the people are.