The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Demolished property on Waterloo Street:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/greghickman/

BTW, this pic shows how great the granite curbs look over time.

[Fischbob]

Kudos Mr. Rocca, for envisioning some commercial uses in your Harbourfront project. I'm rooting for its success as much as you are. Mixed-use and live/work configurations were common before the 20th century and its automobiles came along, and today have plenty of merit from ecological and quality-of-life perspectives.

As I've said before, Water Street has tons of potential. Hopefully we'll hear of some more projects that will compliment everything that's been done so far and further increase the prominence and walkability of the area.

On another note, I've updated a Google map I made last year of Saint John Transit's routes with the new ones. They're on two pages because Google seems to only allow so many lines on a page.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=U...7498759381504.00045127b4cf24b9a8fca&z=11

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Urban Deli is now open on King Street. The food and service were great when I went in for dinner.

[michael_d40]

A 3rd lane addition to McKay Highway might come sooner than we thought.
Just on C94 News.

It must be summer!!! - more paving is scheduled for a busy stretch of highway in the greater Saint John area. The Transportation Department plans to repave almost four kilometers of the westbound lanes along Highway One between the Ashburn Lake Road and the Harbor Bridge - the contract is worth 1.2-million dollars. Meantime -- District Transportation Engineer Allan Kerr says there has been some very preliminary discussion about adding a third lane to a busy stretch of the MacKay Highway -- he says if traffic counts don't justify the addition -- they soon will. Ken Valley councils have expressed concern about the growing volume of traffic in the area which is leading to an increasing number of accidents.

[kwajo]

Adding highway lanes does NOT reduce traffic congestion, this is a huge mistake IMO and will just make the sprawl worse than it already is. I grew up in KV and loved the place more than words could e'er express, but it is out of control now and is now just a caricature of what it once was. Someone needs to save the valley from itself, and I mean that.



EDIT: Sorry for my strong anti-KV parlance last night

[manhattan08]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Adding highway lanes does NOT reduce traffic congestion, this is a huge mistake IMO and will just make the sprawl worse than it already is. I grew up in KV and loved the place more than words could e'er express, but it is out of control now and is now just a caricature of what it once was. Someone needs to save the valley from itself, and I mean that.

It's too late in saving it now, you might as well just go ahead with it. Whether or not it happens, the valley is going to continue to expand...

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by manhattan08

It's too late in saving it now, you might as well just go ahead with it. Whether or not it happens, the valley is going to continue to expand...

My father has a story he loves to tell. When highway 401 was built in Ontario past Toronto, everyone wondered why they were building a 4 lane highway so far outside of the city. Now it almost seems like the 401 is downtown with so much development extending towards the north.

The reality is that the population is expanding, and more housing is needed if the area is to grow. I've given my opinion before that there is a large amount of housing stock in Saint John which needs to be bulldozed to the ground and replaced, however many of us don't have the means and knowledge to undertake such projects ourselves, and as a result new housing stock is purchased at the locations developers build their projects in.

It's unfortunate that rural areas experience development, but so close to the city there is no way around it. Even if there was a way to put another 20,000 or so people into housing in the city, it would only come at the expense of green space within the city limits, or the wholesale rebuilding of some areas of the city. When that is then compounded with the desire by many to live outside the fog belt in areas with larger lots and lower taxes, there is just no way of realistically preventing development in KV and GB/Westfield.

Although the KV is certainly not being developed in the manner I'd wish, at least it's largely escaped the semi detached garages with a house attached to it styles on 25 foot lots which are seen in many cities. Things could be far worse.

[mylesmalley]

Sometimes highway widening is necessary to ease congestion. Unfortunately what usually happens is one or both of the following:

1 - People who stopped taking the highway and took alternative routes because the highway was too congested return when traffic is eased by more lanes.

2 - Cutting congestion means people can live further from the core while keeping their commute the same distance. There are always going to be people who insist on living three quarters of an hour from downtown and commute in.

In effect, easing congestion doesn't improve access to the city, it improves access to more areas so that they can be turned into suburbia.

I think the best solution is for cities to encourage smaller lot sizes, and obviously to foster growth closer to the core. Smaller lots mean more people can occupy the same space, facilitates mass transit, and so on.

[JRocca]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

Sometimes highway widening is necessary to ease congestion. Unfortunately what usually happens is one or both of the following:

1 - People who stopped taking the highway and took alternative routes because the highway was too congested return when traffic is eased by more lanes.

2 - Cutting congestion means people can live further from the core while keeping their commute the same distance. There are always going to be people who insist on living three quarters of an hour from downtown and commute in.

In effect, easing congestion doesn't improve access to the city, it improves access to more areas so that they can be turned into suburbia.

I think the best solution is for cities to encourage smaller lot sizes, and obviously to foster growth closer to the core. Smaller lots mean more people can occupy the same space, facilitates mass transit, and so on.

I agree with your analysis of the impact better highway systems have on where people chose to live but I think your solutions will only marginally help cities until such time as we address the fundamental challenge North American cities face, that is, the attitude fist embraced in England a century ago that the countryside with its wide open spaces is a more desirable places to live than congested, polluted,chaotic cities.
So long as we love "nature" more than Cities,the middle and upper class will continue to flock to suburbia leaving the poor and the small percentage of city lovers behind. And governments will continue to spend money on better roads that create ever larger communities to compete with cities for scarser resources.
Even more damaging is the fact that susburbs have become encloves of conformity.Subdivisions are designed to attract people who think the same and discourage people from other socioeconomic groups and contrarians from moving into their subdivision.
Cities look and feel chaotic because they are a microcosm of life itself.Walk down the street and pass by a drunk, the mayor and a beautiful woman all watching cruise ship passengeers admiring our architecture and the work of our artists.Meanwhile,Martians are still searching for signs of life in suburbia.
I know, I just told one of them I'm moving back Downtown.

[mylesmalley]

The problem is that the idea of owning a large house in suburbia is engrained in the minds of a lot of people, and that kind of goal is very hard to change. My suggestion that lot sizes be shrunk is certainly a band-aide solution in the long term, but in the short term, it could have a positive effect in slowing down the amount of sprawl outwards. More importantly, it would still allow the population to increase unrestrained.

Cities like Chicago, New York, and Toronto are very densely populated in areas with excellent mass transit coverage. The further away one gets from these alternative modes of transportation, the greater the need for a car. Cities like Saint John (and Moncton) are at a size in their lives where mass transportation is viable on a certain scale, but not to an extent where it's easy for many people to live completely free of a private vehicle. As the population in these centres increases, more comprehensive mass transit systems will be feasible. This will make city living a lot easier and a lot more attractive.

[Wrightguy0]

I swear every subdivision I design will have sidewalks, bike trails and at least one lot designated commercial and one designated as a park. and I will lobby city hall to get sidewalks put in on millennium, that street is just dangerous for the pedestrians. I'm tired of this town's half baked ideas for pedestrian trails (say wasn't there supposed to be a trail that goes all the way to rockwood park? what happened to the path behind the Businesses on Millennium? both were half assed attempts at making this valley pedestrian friendly. I'm tired of stepping out my front door and being alone in the great outdoors (believe me, there is a problem when you can walk from the old hampton road to millennium and not see anyone) and the buses, wouldn't it be nice if they ran out here all day, and had stops that were convenient?
and this town, quispamsis is the most boring place on earth, I mean it's no wonder I don't go out, not only can I not get anywhere, but there's nowhere worth going.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Originally Posted by Wrightguy0

I swear every subdivision I design will have sidewalks, bike trails and at least one lot designated commercial and one designated as a park. and I will lobby city hall to get sidewalks put in on millennium, that street is just dangerous for the pedestrians. I'm tired of this town's half baked ideas for pedestrian trails (say wasn't there supposed to be a trail that goes all the way to rockwood park? what happened to the path behind the Businesses on Millennium? both were half assed attempts at making this valley pedestrian friendly. I'm tired of stepping out my front door and being alone in the great outdoors (believe me, there is a problem when you can walk from the old hampton road to millennium and not see anyone) and the buses, wouldn't it be nice if they ran out here all day, and had stops that were convenient?
and this town, quispamsis is the most boring place on earth, I mean it's no wonder I don't go out, not only can I not get anywhere, but there's nowhere worth going.

Unfortunately the pedestrian unfriendliness of these suburbs goes well beyond the lack of infrastructure. In areas where 1 acre lots are the norm there simply is not enough density to support much commercial development, except in centrally located strip malls and power centres. You could put all the sidewalks in you want but people would be unlikely to use them for much more than recreation, it would simply be to far to get anywhere useful. Same thing with buses, you could run them but most people aren't going to walk more than 300-400 metres for a bus stop (if that). The street patterns and density simply won't support frequent transit services - Comex supported by park-n-ride is one of the few options.

The suburbs have been built for the automobile and they will continue to be built that way as long as driving is cheap and convenient. It's unlikely there will be the political will in New Brunswick, at either the provincial or municipal level, to seriously discourage suburban growth or significantly alter suburban development patterns (provincially there isn't even the political will to move forward on the issue of municipal governance, which will inevitabely get into the suburban/urban divide). Even if there was the political will to put growth managment plans and intensification targets in place for urban areas these policies can only do so much, especially in the short to medium term. Until the City becomes a much more attractive place to live I think the status quo will be the norm in the Saint John region for the next couple of years.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

Unfortunately the pedestrian unfriendliness of these suburbs goes well beyond the lack of infrastructure. In areas where 1 acre lots are the norm there simply is not enough density to support much commercial development, except in centrally located strip malls and power centres. You could put all the sidewalks in you want but people would be unlikely to use them for much more than recreation, it would simply be to far to get anywhere useful. Same thing with buses, you could run them but most people aren't going to walk more than 300-400 metres for a bus stop (if that). The street patterns and density simply won't support frequent transit services - Comex supported by park-n-ride is one of the few options.

The suburbs have been built for the automobile and they will continue to be built that way as long as driving is cheap and convenient. It's unlikely there will be the political will in New Brunswick, at either the provincial or municipal level, to seriously discourage suburban growth or significantly alter suburban development patterns (provincially there isn't even the political will to move forward on the issue of municipal governance, which will inevitabely get into the suburban/urban divide). Even if there was the political will to put growth managment plans and intensification targets in place for urban areas these policies can only do so much, especially in the short to medium term. Until the City becomes a much more attractive place to live I think the status quo will be the norm in the Saint John region for the next couple of years.

Very well put.

[michael_d40]

Seems like Rocca wont be wasting anytime to get Harbourfront Residences up once the land is deemed fit. All the shrubs and landscaping has been dismantled from the Demo Suites.

[Wolkenkratzerliebhab]

According to a report by MacClean's magazine, Saint John has come out as being one of the best managed cities in all of Canada! Saint John comes in at number 8, the only city in Atlantic Canada to make the list.


Here are the magazine's top 10 cities:


Burnaby, B.C.
Saskatoon
Surrey, B.C.
Vancouver
Longueil, Que.
Sherbrooke, Que.
London, Ont.
Saint John
Quebec City
Toronto

Report via: CBC

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2009/07/17/sask-macleans-cities-rankings.html

Way to go Saint John!

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by Wolkenkratzerliebhab

According to a report by MacClean's magazine, Saint John has come out as being one of the best managed cities in all of Canada! Saint John comes in at number 8, the only city in Atlantic Canada to make the list.


Here are the magazine's top 10 cities:


Burnaby, B.C.
Saskatoon
Surrey, B.C.
Vancouver
Longueil, Que.
Sherbrooke, Que.
London, Ont.
Saint John
Quebec City
Toronto

Report via: CBC

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2009/07/17/sask-macleans-cities-rankings.html

Way to go Saint John!

The rankings are based on some odd criteria - recreation is measured, in part, based on kms of trails if I'm reading it right.

Too bad the city got rid of the mayor and many councilors who were at the helm when this positive data was collected.

[Seely32]

Townhouses will add plenty of colour to the city
Published Saturday July 18th, 2009

B1
John Chilibeck
Telegraph-Journal


SAINT JOHN - The style that once made the city one of the most attractive places on the east coast will soon have a renaissance, if Shawn Doucette has his way.

The owner of the private real estate company ForSaleByOwnerNB.com plans on developing eight heritage-type executive townhouses overlooking Courtney Bay, in the heart of the city.

"They're going to be indicative to the architecture you see in Saint John," said an enthusiastic Doucette. "So you're going to see some flat roofs, with shingles on them. Some finials, some copper cladding and they'll all be in different colours. It's something that hasn't been done here since the 1940s."

Doucette and his business partner, Donnie Morine, got some of their ideas from Morine's wife, who hails from Newfoundland, where the old style of architecture has helped fuel a property boom in downtown St. John's.

The advertisement on the Crown Street site between Princess and Leinster streets is reminiscent of the recent publicity campaign put on by the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador that prominently featured multicoloured, retro-look buildings.

Doucette hopes to sell to professionals and empty nesters. He said besides the impressive view, Irving Oil was making investments nearby that would make his property more attractive.

"Irving's doing a big development on a park across the causeway and they've also got the old East Saint John School renovated for 65 new executive offices. So I'm hoping to attract some of those people and as well as someone who wants to enjoy uptown living. I only have eight townhouses so I don't think it will be difficult to sell them."

The units will be 1,800 square feet each, with three bedrooms and three and a half bathrooms. The interior design will be adjusted according to the buyer's wishes. A backyard courtyard will also be available for relaxation. Doucette said the average price range will be $300,000, depending on what the buyer wants.

In going for the historical look, the developers ran into a bit of history. First, they had to buy two buildings on either end, one a ramshackle four-unit apartment building and the other a duplex that had seen better days.

Next, they spent four months finalizing the purchase of some city property near the front end. Once they did some test drilling, they discovered the old buildings had been put up on rubble, waste that had been dumped from the Great Fire of 1877.

"When we tore the houses down, there were shards and pottery and stuff and I thought, 'what the heck is this?' And my engineer from Fundy Engineering explained that it was all rubble pushed back toward Courtney Bay. We did test drilling and found ink wells, copper pots, you name it. When we excavate, I hope to find some interesting stuff."

The soil in the area is terrible, so the developers plan on excavating it and putting in good, compact fill. They hope to have the first two units built within six months.




What a view these people would have the refinery the port the smokestacks an industrialists dream.

[JHikka]

I hope the homeowners enjoy their views of A) A swamp B) A drydock C) An industrial haven.

[Ottawa]

A few positive things about this...

1 - It sounds like this guy is 'shovel ready'.

2 - He's building on the peninsula - somebody has to start the upgrade in that area.

3 - It will likely an improvement over what was there - I will keep my fingers crossed.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

A few positive things about this...

1 - It sounds like this guy is 'shovel ready'.

2 - He's building on the peninsula - somebody has to start the upgrade in that area.

3 - It will likely an improvement over what was there - I will keep my fingers crossed.

Agreed, well-built in-fill housing on the central peninsula is never a bad thing. Besides, the potash terminal and oil-products terminal won't be in Courtenay Bay forever, so housing on that side of the peninsula might be a good long-term investment.