Halifax Stadium Discussion

[someone123]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Even if they get the shovels in the ground and start this, who is going to step up and put the dollars up to own a CFL team like Jeff Hunt et al have done in Ottawa. I think that would go a LONG way to get this over the hump. It seems the McCains and other big names would have stepped up if they had the interest....

Am I missing something?

The first step is to build a stadium, and Halifax could clearly use a new stadium whether or not a CFL team is established.

If and when Halifax does build a stadium that can be expanded to CFL proportions, I think it would become a more attractive investment. Another possibility is that the team could be publicly owned, like Regina's.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Even if they get the shovels in the ground and start this, who is going to step up and put the dollars up to own a CFL team like Jeff Hunt et al have done in Ottawa. I think that would go a LONG way to get this over the hump. It seems the McCains and other big names would have stepped up if they had the interest....

Am I missing something?

I think that after what happened with the Schooners conditional franchise in 1983 it would be unlikely that a group would come forward without a stadium in place.

I am looking forward to hearing details of which (if any) of the six private groups will be selected for a funding agreement.

[c-way-dude]

An interesting article on the economic impact of last year's Grey Cup in Vancouver.
www.cfl.ca/article/grey-cup-economic-impact-exceeds-118-million

[c-way-dude]

Apparently we will find out about the level of public interest in investing in a stadium on March 20.http://www.news957.com/news/local/ar...up-for-stadium

[RyeJay]

^

The article mentions councillor Darren Fisher's assurance that even without FIFA a stadium in HRM will still go forward, though at a slower pace of planning. Concerned about rushed plans, I wonder if a better job were done if the city didn't get to host FIFA 2015.

Here's praying the private interest in this project really push for Shannon Park. It would be great to have more waterfront property developed. I would prefer something even more central, such as the area of Windsor Park. Just as long as Dartmouth Crossing isn't chosen.

March 20th will bring more details. This could be really exciting!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

Apparently we will find out about the level of public interest in investing in a stadium on March 20.http://www.news957.com/news/local/ar...up-for-stadium

Thanks for the link. Another link is reporting a staff presentation on March 27th - http://www.ns.dailybusinessbuzz.ca/P...-stadium-bid/1 .

In the long run, it might be better to take a bit longer and make sure that private partners can be arranged and a good location is chosen with good public transit (as close to the central core as possible, possibly Shannon Park or better). However, I hope it won't be indefinitely put on the back burner as Halifax waits to get a major sports event - this is becoming a local cliche (the old) "waiting for a major sports event to build a stadium" that many have heard for the past 30 years.

On another topic - it is good to see that the Skyscraperpage login issues have been solved. (PS: since the new server has been introduced, I have been getting the following message when I log-out - "Warning: in_array() [function.in-array]: Wrong datatype for second argument in [path]/includes/functions.php(2948) : eval()'d code on line 131"

[hollistreet]

Quebec City is officially looking for an NHL team for there $400M arena. Quebcor will own them.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

In the long run, it might be better to take a bit longer and make sure that private partners can be arranged and a good location is chosen with good public transit (as close to the central core as possible, possibly Shannon Park or better). However, I hope it won't be indefinitely put on the back burner as Halifax waits to get a major sports event - this is belonging a local cliche (the old) "waiting for a major sports event to build a stadium" that many have heard for the past 30 years.

On its face the argument for waiting for a major sports event is pretty weak. If it's worthwhile to build a stadium for a brief FIFA event then it must be worthwhile to build it without. Conversely, if the only reason to justify a permanent stadium is a temporary event then it is a bad investment. 95% of the funding pitch for FIFA should be that the stadium can be used regularly by existing local sports teams or for local events.

The real issue is that governments like to fund "sexy" projects that get a lot of attention, and a sports event adds publicity to a stadium. A modest stadium however is cheap enough that it is viable even with a few local partners (businesses and the universities). When a basic stadium is built there will be more opportunities to bid successfully on sports events and the funding can be used for expansion.

[resetcbu1]

Originally Posted by hollistreet

Quebec City is officially looking for an NHL team for there $400M arena. Quebcor will own them.

Also there's interest in Saskatoon, believe it or not it is being taken quite seriously for an NHL team. I am positive that if Saskatoon could support a team , Halifax Halifax most certainly could although we don't have an arena big enough.

The Saskatoon idea even has the blessing of dawn cherry, not that he isn't a little cuckoo

[Hali87]

I think Halifax could support a CFL team and maybe an NHL team, but definitely not both. Best case scenario IMO would be if Halifax got NHL and Moncton got CFL.

Major league soccer is also something that should be looked at as a potential tenant for any stadium here.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I think Halifax could support a CFL team and maybe an NHL team, but definitely not both. Best case scenario IMO would be if Halifax got NHL and Moncton got CFL.

Major league soccer is also something that should be looked at as a potential tenant for any stadium here.

MLS franchise fees are expected to be $100 million for a team in New York and $80 million for potential teams in Orlando, San Antonio, Detroit or Minneapolis. Halifax might be better off going after a USL franchise instead.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Halifax might be better off going after a USL franchise instead.

If recent expansions are anything to go by, a USL franchise is needed before you even think of an MLS franchise. The MLS is looking into places like Atlanta and Miami next for expansion, and after that places like Edmonton and Ottawa are miles ahead of Halifax. The odds of Halifax getting an MLS franchise at this point are 0, so USL would be their best bet.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Welkin

[/B]

MLS franchise fees are expected to be $100 million for a team in New York and $80 million for potential teams in Orlando, San Antonio, Detroit or Minneapolis. Halifax might be better off going after a USL franchise instead.

A CFL franchise seems like a a bargain compared to these two leagues, and in Canada it is more popular. I think that the Nova Scotia government should not only be considering the direct business case of a stadium but should also be considering the tourist promotion impact of having a CFL team in the Halifax area. How much does the NS tourist department spend a year on tourist promotion? A CFL team would be promoting Nova Scotia across Canada, which is where most of the tourists to NS come from.

Unfortunately, many Nova Scotian politicians consider a CFL franchise for the Halifax area to be farfetched (I am not sure why).

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I think Halifax could support a CFL team and maybe an NHL team, but definitely not both. Best case scenario IMO would be if Halifax got NHL and Moncton got CFL.

Major league soccer is also something that should be looked at as a potential tenant for any stadium here.

An NHL team in Halifax and a CFL team in Moncton would be a dream scenario. Realistically though, Moncton does not have the resources to support such a venture now, nor in the near future. With a lack of tax revenue from major industries, out of control urban sprawl with absolutely no end in sight, and most of New Brunswick in decline (making Moncton virtually the only economic engine upon which the province is dependent), Moncton will not be able to commit financing for a CFL team because of the mounting budgetary pressures the city is experiencing.

I am indifferent as to the area of sports in which Halifax invests; they are both extremely popular. I would be thrilled with either because of its business potential for the city and province as a whole.

[Hali87]

^ Saint John NB doesn't seem to be doing too badly, and is about the same size as Moncton. It doesn't get much attention but seems like a busier city from the few times that I've been there.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Hali87

^ Saint John NB doesn't seem to be doing too badly, and is about the same size as Moncton. It doesn't get much attention but seems like a busier city from the few times that I've been there.

If you think SJ is doing fine, I'm doubtful you've read anything recently about the city. Major employers have continued laying people off, as the city's rate of poverty and crime increases, as the city cuts back on public services (such as police), as the city is dealing with deciding which parts of its sprawled infrastructure to maintain (they cannot maintain it all).

SJ, contrary to Moncton, has at least begun to densify its core, though not at all at a fast enough pace to build its tax base enough to handle the increasing costs of everything.

[cjones2451]

I am still baffled by the costing of this "bare bones" 14,000 stadium costing $60-70M

I know Fenwick has provided ample examples of stadia, such as InfoCision Stadium that seat about 30K range for $50M

I just saw some stories on the Saputo Stadium in Montreal for the Impact. It will be about 20,341 seats with the original $17M price + $23M for expansion it is a full stadium for $40M.
How can Halifax not get a 25K stadium, CFL ready for $5 to $10M more than that, might I also point out that Montreal got help from ALL levels of government on this.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

I am still baffled by the costing of this "bare bones" 14,000 stadium costing $60-70M

I know Fenwick has provided ample examples of stadia, such as InfoCision Stadium that seat about 30K range for $50M

I just saw some stories on the Saputo Stadium in Montreal for the Impact. It will be about 20,341 seats with the original $17M price + $23M for expansion it is a full stadium for $40M.
How can Halifax not get a 25K stadium, CFL ready for $5 to $10M more than that, might I also point out that Montreal got help from ALL levels of government on this.

I think $60-70M includes the cost of land, which is often excluded in price quotes for other stadiums. The structure itself will be cheaper than $60M if I understand correctly.

[W.Sobchak]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

If you think SJ is doing fine, I'm doubtful you've read anything recently about the city. Major employers have continued laying people off, as the city's rate of poverty and crime increases, as the city cuts back on public services (such as police), as the city is dealing with deciding which parts of its sprawled infrastructure to maintain (they cannot maintain it all).

SJ, contrary to Moncton, has at least begun to densify its core, though not at all at a fast enough pace to build its tax base enough to handle the increasing costs of everything.

They seem to be stuck in a limbo of 70's solutions for 2000's problems. That justice centre is good for short term jobs, but the amount of space used, and none of it for any type of housing... Luckly the Harbourfront condos beside the lower cove loop are done, or are nearing completion. My biggest bone of contention when I was there, was the fact you can not build higher than the already established buildings in the south-end. It's like the viewplanes times a million! However, their Canada Games field by the University, it perfect for expansion, it's a shame the biggest sports it gets there is club level football.

I hope, hope, hope that our stadium gets a little more moxi to it's specs. Is there any designs or public literature on this debacle of public spending?

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by W.Sobchak

They seem to be stuck in a limbo of 70's solutions for 2000's problems. That justice centre is good for short term jobs, but the amount of space used, and none of it for any type of housing... Luckly the Harbourfront condos beside the lower cove loop are done, or are nearing completion. My biggest bone of contention when I was there, was the fact you can not build higher than the already established buildings in the south-end. It's like the viewplanes times a million! However, their Canada Games field by the University, it perfect for expansion, it's a shame the biggest sports it gets there is club level football.

I hope, hope, hope that our stadium gets a little more moxi to it's specs. Is there any designs or public literature on this debacle of public spending?

Saint John, and indeed the entire province of New Brunswick, suffers from 'Irving Syndrome'. I do not believe New Brunswickers are able to understand the budgetary problems they face because they do not have easy access to information outside of the Irving bubble.

There also exists a strong, almost religious belief in the province that downtowns are always dirty and dangerous, and therefore, are never suitable for families. Period. If you present evidence to the contrary in an attempt to promote urbanisation, you're labelled as anti-development and anti-business.

Every municipality in the province is based on a suburban format, creating wide-spread car dependencies regardless of where you live -- which jives very well with the products Irving sells.