PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown III

[Don't Be That Guy]

Originally Posted by shantyside

Helm on the Allegheny - more cheap, boring panel architecture

the cork factory, which wasn't even designed to be an apartment building, is a hundred times more architecturally appealing than the junk they're building now

clearly ARCHITECTURE IS NOT GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION - we just build crap now

The Cork Factory was also built at a time when almost everything was made of labor-intensive masonry, and that labor was cheap to the point of disposable. I don't know if you're an architect or just an enthusiast, but a practicing architect would know the cost and challenges of building anything like the Cork Factory. Just getting a building like that to meet modern energy code requirements would be a herculean task.

Next Pittsburgh reported that the Helm is a $53.7 million project. That would be significantly higher with different materials and architectural features, especially with union labor.

I personally don't love metal panels (even though they work and are on every commercial project) or those color choices, but the ship-like design where every apartment has a riverview balcony is cool and makes great use of a constrained site.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

The Cork Factory was also built at a time when almost everything was made of labor-intensive masonry, and that labor was cheap to the point of disposable. I don't know if you're an architect or just an enthusiast, but a practicing architect would know the cost and challenges of building anything like the Cork Factory. Just getting a building like that to meet modern energy code requirements would be a herculean task.

Next Pittsburgh reported that the Helm is a $53.7 million project. That would be significantly higher with different materials and architectural features, especially with union labor.

I personally don't love metal panels (even though they work and are on every commercial project) or those color choices, but the ship-like design where every apartment has a riverview balcony is cool and makes great use of a constrained site.

It might be a overoptimistic, but I believe as 3D printing technology improves it will become easier/cheaper to have custom-designed architectural elements (including ornament) which may result in a sea change in architecture.

I should make it clear that I'm not someone who wants all architecture to look historic, only that I want to see the re-emergence of vernaculars which help define a sense of place. I mean, amateurs tend to lump almost everything built in the late 19th century as "Victorian" today, but many of the styles were not meant as outward revivals, but combinations of historical elements in new and interesting fashions. Or in some cases - like Art Noveau - they just looked like nothing else that was ever done before or since.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

The Cork Factory was also built at a time when almost everything was made of labor-intensive masonry, and that labor was cheap to the point of disposable. I don't know if you're an architect or just an enthusiast, but a practicing architect would know the cost and challenges of building anything like the Cork Factory. Just getting a building like that to meet modern energy code requirements would be a herculean task.

Next Pittsburgh reported that the Helm is a $53.7 million project. That would be significantly higher with different materials and architectural features, especially with union labor.

I personally don't love metal panels (even though they work and are on every commercial project) or those color choices, but the ship-like design where every apartment has a riverview balcony is cool and makes great use of a constrained site.

Good points. I find the building ugly due to the north and south sides primarily and the materials, but the "ship" design and west side are fine by me.

[shantyside]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

The Cork Factory was also built at a time when almost everything was made of labor-intensive masonry, and that labor was cheap to the point of disposable. I don't know if you're an architect or just an enthusiast, but a practicing architect would know the cost and challenges of building anything like the Cork Factory. Just getting a building like that to meet modern energy code requirements would be a herculean task.

Next Pittsburgh reported that the Helm is a $53.7 million project. That would be significantly higher with different materials and architectural features, especially with union labor.

I personally don't love metal panels (even though they work and are on every commercial project) or those color choices, but the ship-like design where every apartment has a riverview balcony is cool and makes great use of a constrained site.

so let me get this straight - we can build steel contruction parking garages with architecturally appealing masonry facades but we can't build stick construction apartment buildings with architecturally appealing masonry facades

likely because developers view these projects purely as financial equations, and the lower the cost the greater the profit

great - we'll have a society with rich developers and ugly buildings

and when the developer gets rich they buy a brick or stone mansion

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by shantyside

so let me get this straight - we can build steel contruction parking garages with architecturally appealing masonry facades but we can't build stick construction apartment buildings with architecturally appealing masonry facades

likely because developers view these projects purely as financial equations, and the lower the cost the greater the profit

great - we'll have a society with rich developers and ugly buildings

and when the developer gets rich they buy a brick or stone mansion

Yes, they are absolutely "financial equations"... they are profit-driven construction projects down to the last nail. Low-cost / high-rent apartment buildings. This is not new, nor unique to Pittsburgh.

Didn't they teach you in architecture school that your creative dreams will be crushed if you ever actually get the slim chance of designing a building? And that you can either accept that or you can go find work as a barista?

[MarkMyWords]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yes, they are absolutely "financial equations"... they are profit-driven construction projects down to the last nail. Low-cost / high-rent apartment buildings. This is not new, nor unique to Pittsburgh.

Didn't they teach you in architecture school that your creative dreams will be crushed if you ever actually get the slim chance of designing a building? And that you can either accept that or you can go find work as a barista?

Exactly! The days of clients wanting an architectural monument to their good taste in design are gone, except for the ultra-wealthy or cases of civic pride. Mega corporations like Google and cities like London can do it. The fantastic architecture of the Middle East oil kingdoms and Chinese cities are also cases in point. If you have a society with the aesthetic soul of an actuary (American capitalist economy), this stuff is what you get.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by MarkMyWords

Exactly! The days of clients wanting an architectural monument to their good taste in design are gone, except for the ultra-wealthy or cases of civic pride. Mega corporations like Google and cities like London can do it. The fantastic architecture of the Middle East oil kingdoms and Chinese cities are also cases in point. If you have a society with the aesthetic soul of an actuary (American capitalist economy), this stuff is what you get.

And with the relative boom in REITs, people from all over the place are becoming “owners” of building projects far from where they may live or ever even visit. They’re in it for the money, understandably… and they’re not going to care much about how locals feel about yet another crappy-looking apartment building in Pittsburgh or anywhere else.

One only needs to look at all the awful apartment buildings going up around college campuses everywhere to understand some of the forces at play.

[shantyside]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yes, they are absolutely "financial equations"... they are profit-driven construction projects down to the last nail. Low-cost / high-rent apartment buildings. This is not new, nor unique to Pittsburgh.

Didn't they teach you in architecture school that your creative dreams will be crushed if you ever actually get the slim chance of designing a building? And that you can either accept that or you can go find work as a barista?

in architecture school we watched THE FOUNTAINHEAD where we learned you can either be a sell-out or work in a quarry

i chose the quarry

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by shantyside

in architecture school we watched THE FOUNTAINHEAD where we learned you can either be a sell-out or work in a quarry

i chose the quarry

What is the architectural equivalent of the quarry?

[MarkMyWords]

Originally Posted by pj3000

What is the architectural equivalent of the quarry?

Designing Walmarts or gas stations?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by MarkMyWords

Exactly! The days of clients wanting an architectural monument to their good taste in design are gone, except for the ultra-wealthy or cases of civic pride. Mega corporations like Google and cities like London can do it. The fantastic architecture of the Middle East oil kingdoms and Chinese cities are also cases in point. If you have a society with the aesthetic soul of an actuary (American capitalist economy), this stuff is what you get.

I know a guy who is pretty high up in a local architectural firm, and he's told me that the most enjoyable projects to work on by far are designing houses for rich people. Basically because in that case all you have to do is sell the homeowner on your design vision, whereas almost every other developer is concerned about how the eventual customer/end user of the building will respond to it.

[bmust71]

New project going in front of the PDP (Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership) on Smithfield street. Nice to see this part of the street getting some attention. It's next to the 6th ave garage.

https://downtownpittsburgh.com/wp-co...esentation.pdf

[shantyside]

Originally Posted by bmust71

New project going in front of the PDP (Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership) on Smithfield street. Nice to see this part of the street getting some attention. It's next to the 6th ave garage.

https://downtownpittsburgh.com/wp-co...esentation.pdf

nice masonry facade - fits in well with its context

[shantyside]

for all the trendiness and sophistication of lawrenceville, you'd think there'd be strong community support for transforming this dopey but centrally located parking lot on butler street into a charming public square with benches and more trees and a fountain, similar to what they have at allegheny commons park

perhaps lawrenceville isn't as sophisticated as people like to believe

[shantyside]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I know a guy who is pretty high up in a local architectural firm, and he's told me that the most enjoyable projects to work on by far are designing houses for rich people. Basically because in that case all you have to do is sell the homeowner on your design vision, whereas almost every other developer is concerned about how the eventual customer/end user of the building will respond to it.

fallingwater being the prime local example - an architectural masterpiece built in the middle of nowhere for the benefit of a wealthy merchant and his friends and family

architects today seem to have no concern for the public good other than virtue signaling about sustainable design and LEED certification

[themaguffin]

Can we stop using the useless term "virtue signaling?"

Ugh.

[shantyside]

this is how it's done - excellent design

"Mr. Kichline’s company, Oxide Real Estate Development, is pitching a plan to build a 114-unit boutique apartment building at Penn Avenue and 32nd Street in the Strip."

https://www.post-gazette.com/busines...s/202011240092

[Austinlee]

^ Now that's a handsome building.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by shantyside

architects today seem to have no concern for the public good other than virtue signaling about sustainable design and LEED certification

While I have issues with LEED and other building certifications that focus on design rather than performance, labeling what amounts to a revenue stream for architecture firms as "virtue signaling" is quite a stretch... and hints about a personal agenda.

Offering that "architects seem to have no concern for the public good" sounds much more like the stupid and overused virtue signaling to me than focusing on sustainable design does.

The Skybar and/or Buildings & Architecture sub-forums seem to be a better venue to air your grievances than the Pittsburgh development thread.

[shantyside]

Originally Posted by pj3000

While I have issues with LEED and other building certifications that focus on design rather than performance, labeling what amounts to a revenue stream for architecture firms as "virtue signaling" is quite a stretch... and hints about a personal agenda.

Offering that "architects seem to have no concern for the public good" sounds much more like the stupid and overused virtue signaling to me than focusing on sustainable design does.

The Skybar and/or Buildings & Architecture sub-forums seem to be a better venue to air your grievances than the Pittsburgh development thread.

what i don't understand is, you have three neighborhoods - east liberty, lawrenceville and the strip district - where developers have invested hundred of millions of dollars in the past decade, and not one of those areas has a public square which benefits the public good and is a fundamental component of any large business district, like a living room is to a house

the developers might not know any better, but the architects that work for them do - yet i never hear about local architects (or urban planners) advocating for more public spaces in those neighborhoods

the first thing they did when they laid out the plan for downtown pittsburgh was include a public square

this is a pittsburgh issue - places like new york and boston don't need to be reminded to develop public spaces