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  #4441  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 2:42 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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It would be interesting to know how homicide rates compare between cities where "street gangs" control drug trade and those where it's in the contol of traditional "organized crime" groups. I suspect the homicide rates are lower in the latter.
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  #4442  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 3:16 PM
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It would be interesting to know how homicide rates compare between cities where "street gangs" control drug trade and those where it's in the contol of traditional "organized crime" groups. I suspect the homicide rates are lower in the latter.
Unscientifically, one can say that Montreal and Vancouver embody the latter, and Toronto, Ottawa and Winnipeg embody the former.
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  #4443  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 3:23 PM
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Unscientifically, one can say that Montreal and Vancouver embody the latter, and Toronto, Ottawa and Winnipeg embody the former.
Very much.
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  #4444  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 3:24 PM
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Very much.
It's rarely talked about on here, but Vancouver city proper has about 700,000 people and something like 7 murders this year.
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  #4445  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 3:28 PM
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I was going to make this comment yesterday but forgot. This isn't related to cannabis legalization - and I say this as someone who is not overly enthusiastic about that measure (or at least about the way it's been handled).
I Agree, Couple of friends are with the gang unit here. Increased crime is a direct result in greater completion between the various groups.

Just did some more work at a prison here last week. After only one day I thought how tough it would be to be locked up there. And I had free movement.
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  #4446  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 4:10 PM
Darkoshvilli Darkoshvilli is offline
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People just need to blame Trudeau for something.
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  #4447  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 3:01 AM
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Speaking as someone who is actually involved with a centre that provides programming to at-risk inner-city youth as part of a gang prevention strategy (not that any of this experience really matters), while the use of non-cannabis drugs has always been present (my uncle was involved in the opioid trade back in the early 2000s, before most people knew what opioids were or how dangerous they would become), and while the incursion of gangs into the community has increased over a longer period than just the past year, there has been a clear trend of drug dealers trying to get people hooked onto different kinds of drugs, or cutting drugs they've been selling with fentanyl or other opioids to make them more addictive. (The goal is to increase it enough to get them to come back, not to kill them; but we all know how it is working out.)

In terms of who is actually involved in those gangs, just five years ago gangs from Southern Ontario were barely known here. Today, numerous gangs (it's hard to know exactly how many because they're so transient and poorly organized) are present and engage in tactics that weren't widespread in the past (use of guns, day time murders in public areas, and home takeovers).

The nature of gangs has changed significantly here in just 3 years or so, no one here would deny it. And since legalization, a lot of them aren't involved with cannabis at all. Most of the time when they get raided, they're found to be dealing cocaine, crack cocaine, and fentanyl or other opioids. Drug busts involving cannabis have become rare, even though it's still illegal to sell it on the black market. The gangs have definitely shifted what they're moving.

Most black market cannabis is being sold by people who are only selling it to trusted individuals and typically aren't gang members or committing acts of violence. They're likely buying it from gangs at some point but the nature of the black market cannabis trade is very different than that of other drugs.

Also interesting, is that Thunder Bay's drugs are mostly coming from Southern Ontario. The crystal meth crisis that's hitting Winnipeg isn't happening here; it's cocaine, crack and opioids here. Crystal meth exists, but not in the epidemic levels they're seeing out west. That stuff seems to stop around Dryden. It hints at reduced activity in the city from Winnipeg gangs, likely due to the violent nature of the Toronto and Ottawa gangs. There's a lot of violence in Winnipeg, but Thunder Bay, like Toronto, is seeing shootings during day light in middle-class neighbourhoods. Several of them have resulted in murders. And almost everyone involved is from the GTA or Ottawa; when locals are involved, they're affiliated with the gangs from the GTA and Ottawa. (After all, it's kind of conspicuous to have a black man with a GTA accent flying to a northern Reserve; they pay native people to move stuff up there.)
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  #4448  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 5:18 PM
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Winnipeg now at 40 after another shooting.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6128057/w...im-sale-drive/

This has to be one of the worst stretches in the city's history, I think we've gone from 30 to 40 in just under a month.

Last edited by balletomane; Nov 5, 2019 at 7:16 PM.
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  #4449  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 9:01 PM
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There is no connection between Cannabis legalization and the increase in Meth. I'm amazed people would even imply something so ridiculous lol.
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  #4450  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's rarely talked about on here, but Vancouver city proper has about 700,000 people and something like 7 murders this year.
How does 1 per 100k people compare to other cities?
And im guessing Surrey is worse. There must literally be something in the water over there.
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  #4451  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 9:16 PM
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1/100K is a pretty good rate for a major city, Winnipeg has 700 000 people and 40 homicides now for example. Vancouver would be better looked at in terms of the metro area though.
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  #4452  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 9:24 PM
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1/100K is a pretty good rate for a major city, Winnipeg has 700 000 people and 40 homicides now for example. Vancouver would be better looked at in terms of the metro area though.
Ya that would be more accurate. Not sure if individual city stats are available for every single municipality within Metro Vancouver.
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  #4453  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 10:08 PM
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I'm sure they are, they might be tough to find though. Are all the other municipalities under RCMP or do they have their own police forces?
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  #4454  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 10:17 PM
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Most but not all municipalities are RCMP. Trying to think which ones have their own police.
Vancouver, soon but not yet Surrey, maybe New West?
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  #4455  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 10:22 PM
Darkoshvilli Darkoshvilli is offline
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
How does 1 per 100k people compare to other cities?.
Still worse than Montreals 0.8

But better than most big canadian cities aside from Quebec city.
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  #4456  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 10:40 PM
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Haha well done Montreal.
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  #4457  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 12:16 AM
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We may have our first in a while. A man was shot on Bond Street this evening. Shootings in the city are incredibly rare (we're a stabbing city). And Bond Street, though working class, is generally a very safe area.

Pics of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary responding via FB:





And the location...



Right at the entrance to that lane on the right side...

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  #4458  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 1:00 AM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post

Also interesting, is that Thunder Bay's drugs are mostly coming from Southern Ontario. The crystal meth crisis that's hitting Winnipeg isn't happening here; it's cocaine, crack and opioids here. Crystal meth exists, but not in the epidemic levels they're seeing out west.
It's all of the above here in Winnipeg, plus alcohol. Winnipeg is ground zero for FASD in Canada, possibly in the developed world.
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  #4459  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 1:31 AM
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Alcohol is big in Thunder Bay too. When I was in high school, quite a few kids would have a bottle of Listerine in their lockers and drink it between classes. There are plenty of corrupt adults out there who will buy alcohol for kids for five bucks, so these days they just as often have actual alcohol.
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  #4460  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 2:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
We may have our first in a while. A man was shot on Bond Street this evening. Shootings in the city are incredibly rare (we're a stabbing city). And Bond Street, though working class, is generally a very safe area.
Should the shooting victim die it would be 3 in in about 2.5 months. The death of a woman found on the side of the road in CBS was in late August, and the death of the young man on Livingstone Street was early September. We're usually a little more spread out, 3 in such a short period of time is rare for here.
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