Halifax Stadium Discussion

[c-way-dude]

Originally Posted by isaidso

All 3 of those stadia are really pushing the lower limits of what the league will tolerate, but are in established CFL markets. The Rough Riders date back to 1876, so Ottawa's absence is more an aberration than normal circumstance. Halifax is not only an untested pro football market, but it's almost half the size of Hamilton.

Halifax's proposal is for 14,000 permanent seats and 1 concourse. That's not going to fly with the CFL at all. If Halifax is serious about having a permanent tenant in its new stadium, shouldn't Halifax be trying to wow the CFL with a stadium the CFL would be proud to play in?

Winnipeg's got it right, Halifax should be trying to get as close to that as it can. If you can't consistently sell out a 25,000 seater, you're not big enough for the CFL.

CFL Commissioner Mark Cohon, as well as his predecessor Tom Wright, have repeatedly stated that a 25k stadium would be suitable for a franchise.
I completely agree that this stadium, which would basically be a permanent version of B.C.'s temporary stadium after expansion, would be unsuitable for a CFL franchise. I have little doubt that a 25k stadium with almost all of it's seats between the goallines would be acceptable.

[c-way-dude]

thechronicleherald.ca/sports/56596-stadium-push-needs-prominent-leaderAn excellent column from Chris Cochrane about someone stepping forward to be the leader for the pro-stadium side.

[q12]

Three Stadium Story's from the Herald today:

Developer: City has narrow window on stadium decision
January 27, 2012 - 8:23pm BY COLLEEN COSGROVE BUSINESS REPORTER

Construction of a multimillion-dollar stadium takes time and a local developer says if a decision isn’t made soon, Halifax will need deeper pockets.

That’s if it expects the structure to be ready for the 2014 FIFA U-20 Women’s World Cup, the precursor to the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

John Volcko, PCL Constructors Canada Inc.’s vice-president and district manager, said a project of this scale would take up to 15 months, but that’s only if the chosen site requires minimal preparation and if architectural designs for the facility are underway.

“In my opinion, (regional council) has two or three months to decide if they’re going to build or not,” Volcko said Friday from his Dartmouth office.

More here: http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...adium-decision

Stadium push needs a prominent leader
January 28, 2012 - 4:35am BY CHRIS COCHRANE SPORTS COLUMNIST

It’s difficult not to be pessimistic about Halifax getting a stadium, especially as an extended deadline for a decision nears.

Though most public opinion polls I’ve seen favour construction, our politicians can’t seem to get their acts together and come up with a workable plan.

More here:http://thechronicleherald.ca/sports/...ominent-leader

Some potential stadium users question facts
January 27, 2012 - 8:01pm BY COLLEEN COSGROVE BUSINESS REPORTER

The business case for the construction of a multi-use 14,000-seat stadium in Halifax doesn’t jive with the facts, potential users say.

Derek Martin, president of Sports & Entertainment Atlantic, the same company that will bring the FIVB beach volleyball junior world championships to Halifax for a second time this summer, said the process so far has been short-sighted.

More here: http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...question-facts

The guy in this story thinks we need 5,000 to 8,000 permanent seats, with the option to expand. Wow don't we have that already with Husky Stadium for chirst's sake? I think there is a pre-school in Texas that has a stadium bigger than that.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by someone123

This is completely consistent with my previous point. Vancouver is a highly socially stratified city with a struggling underclass. And now it has a nice new stadium that cost hundreds of millions of dollars. My intention was not to make Vancouver sound like Buffalo or Detroit. It is closer to San Francisco or Seattle, which have expensive areas and areas like the Tenderloin or Belltown (which doesn't seem quite so bad to me)[/B]. I like to point out these similarities because Canadians often buy into a weird form of exceptionalism and refuse to acknowledge the many flaws shared with or inherited from the US.

I wouldn't describe San Fran or Seattle as 'bombed-out' cities either, so I'm still not sure what it is you're suggesting with that term. Having a range of different income markets occupying the same relatively small area constituting a city's downtown is not equal to the virtual abandonment of urban cores that WOULD aptly describe a 'bombed-out'-looking city.

Your argument seems to be that BC Place is apparently a white elephant because it happens to be next door to a rough neighborhood. The fact that Vancouver is socially stratified is irrelevant to the fact that the stadium also is within easy walking/public transit distance of a considerably larger number of people who DO have the means to attend its events.

Okay, so those SRO hotels merely look abandoned, and above the faded, caged-in storefronts live an assortment of crack and heroin addicts.

I never said the there was particularly DESIRABLE activity in the DE, but if you're honestly trying to argue that there isn't any kind of activity whatsoever in that part of town I honestly don't know what to tell you. Even if you keep a wide berth around that area its abundantly clear that there are people there making use of that space.

[someone123]

My point was that the spending priorities are a little questionable. That seems to be pretty much the norm when it comes to sports infrastructure in North America.

[someone123]

Here is an article about the benefits of Indianapolis having a downtown stadium instead of one located in the suburbs:

http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2012/0...ome-slack.html

[Welkin]

Here is a 30,000 seat college stadium complex being built in Texas for $60 million. It looks a lot better than our dinky 15,000 seat $71 million proposed project.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Here is a 30,000 seat college stadium complex being built in Texas for $60 million. It looks a lot better than our dinky 15,000 seat $71 million proposed project.

They must use illegal Mexicans as non-union labor there or some such thing.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Here is a 30,000 seat college stadium complex being built in Texas for $60 million. It looks a lot better than our dinky 15,000 seat $71 million proposed project.

It took me about 1/2 hour to figure out where this stadium is being proposed. You gave a couple of hints - in Texas, and the football stadium has Panthers written at one end.

It is the Prairie View A&M stadium proposal, which I only found through a search of the image. Here is a link - http://www.chron.com/sports/college-...ll-1695157.php

However, just to be unbiasedly fair to the HRM "dinky 15,000 seat" proposal - the first phase of the Prairie View stadium proposal is 15,000 seats and is being built for $34 million. It is expandable to 30,000 seats.

Personally I think that Halifax should start with 15,000 seats but have it expandable to 45,000 seats (which isn't difficult or expensive to do). And put it closer to a public transportation hub.

In the HRM Request for Expressions of Interest they gave a fairly general description of the proposed stadium - http://halifax.ca/stadium/documents/E12-007.pdf

The following are details included in the Phase 2 analysis that define the project as proposed:

• 10,000 permanent seats minimum / 14,000 permanent seats maximum
• Site identification has resulted in the recommendation of two precincts currently under discussion:
  o Shannon Park
  o Dartmouth Crossing
• Field-of-play will be designed to accommodate both soccer and football as predominate sports, but will accommodate a number of other activities as well
• Seating will be as intimate as possible which means seating at the ends of the stadium will be as close to the field-of-play as possible during large events
• During legacy mode, the end zones will be open, with one being designed as a family-friendly sloped grass viewing area
• Permanent seating will be restricted to the sides of the field of play
• One side (warm side) will incorporate all of the permanent indoor spaces including dressing rooms, administrative spaces, multipurpose rooms and meeting rooms Included in the warm side of the structure will be “lease space” designed to accommodate a tenant. Total area available for this is approx. 1200 sm.
• Off season access to the facility will be facilitated through the addition of a “bubble” which will enclose the field-of- play, and allow for the extended facility usage
• The facility project, including land, site servicing, construction, FFE and soft costs is estimated to cost $54M - $71M, depending on final permanent seat count, and whether or not temporary event seating is purchased or rented per event

If I had the financial means, I would propose a sunken bowl design with one end open and one end a grass hill (if at Shannon Park then the "warm side" would be built from the ground up since the field should be several feet above sea level and the opposite sideline seats would be sunken so that the concourse was level with Baffin Blvd). The "warm-side" would have 9,500 permanent seats and the opposite sideline seats would have 4,500 seats (expandable to 9,500) so that there could ultimately be 19,000 seats between the soccer/football goal lines.

I would want Shannon Park instead of Dartmouth Crossing because it would have better public transit options.

[cormiermax]

So is this thing pretty much dead in the water or?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

So is this thing pretty much dead in the water or?

I think it is starting to look doubtful for the 2015 FIFA Cup.

However, the idea of a stadium in the HRM will only be dead if residents and Councillors decide to give up the effort to build a stadium.

[cormiermax]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think it is starting to look doubtful for the 2015 FIFA Cup.

However, the idea of a stadium in the HRM will only be dead if residents and Councillors decide to give up the effort to build a stadium.

If there's no FIFA, I think that'll probably happen. Any action taken on a stadium without the backdrop of FIFA will probably be labeled as a white elephant, wrongfully of course.

[RyeJay]

The momentum cannot drop after FIFA is a no-go. One of the reasons for its failure was the lack of preparation; although, we should also credit Dartmouth Crossing for not wanting their stadium built on the site in which HRM was previously interested.

The city needs to plan for a stadium that services the needs and aspirations of the city -- and then take advantage of an event, like FIFA, for reason to finance the stadium.

Rushing to build a stadium specifically for one event without consideration of the municipality in which its built is juvenile and reckless. Buying a stadium shouldn't be like retail window shopping.

Why are so many people acting as though FIFA is the last sports event in history? There are many events to come, and Halifax's boom has yet to truly kick in.

[someone123]

Yeah, the stadium should be seen as a 50+ year piece of infrastructure that should be built properly in the correct location.

I wouldn't worry about too much about people shooting down a stadium study because they think the resulting building will be a white elephant. The whole point of planning a stadium is to avoid building a white elephant and that is how further studies should be sold. People concerned about wasted money should be happy to endorse a continued stadium planning process because it will avoid situations like this one or the Commonwealth Games fiasco. If the city is prepared then we can have events and spend a justifiable amount of money on useful infrastructure.

I do not believe that many people truly think that the status quo of a run-down tiny stadium at SMU is reasonable for Halifax. I think the majority would agree that it is perfectly reasonable to invest in a new stadium of some sort.

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

The momentum cannot drop after FIFA is a no-go. One of the reasons for its failure was the lack of preparation; although, we should also credit Dartmouth Crossing for not wanting their stadium built on the site in which HRM was previously interested.

It's not DC's fault that the committee named a site in DC without asking the owners of the land. Or did I get it wrong?

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuz

It's not DC's fault that the committee named a site in DC without asking the owners of the land. Or did I get it wrong?

Whatever the case.

DC said no. And that's a good thing.

[(CFL) THE 13TH MAN]

Some news from NS sent to me from a friend in Hfx. who heard Mike Savage who apparently is running for Mayor, who thinks he has already won.

Well what I was told by email that he was on a local talk show in HFX. and said he wants to bring a CFL team to Halifax, and he wants a CFL ready stadium built. But then all the sudden when he was confronted by a caller to confirm his statement, Savage automatically changed his tune and said the exact opposite just minutes later. Savage then said, that no it doesn`t have to be CFL ready, that he supports the steering committee`s smaller kids community stadium.

Wow, what an instant switch I was told, that didn`t seem to be very honest or trusting. Anyway, Savage sounds like he has absolutely no vision and talks a good talk, but when asked to confirm his statement, he flip flops! Yes Savage would be a real change for Halifax as Mayor because he would probably change his one vote back and forth the same way! I don`t believe he would be a very good choice for Mayor of Halifax, if you want a Mayor that has some real trueful vision!

[cormiermax]

What do you expect? Hes a politician, they're all spineless fools.

[fenwick16]

As far as a stadium goes, I see Mayor Kelly as being the best choice. He has never waffled on the stadium issue; he has stated for years that Halifax should have a stadium (it was on his stimulus wish list a few years ago). He also has stated that he thinks Shannon Park is the best choice (I am paraphrasing) and he also seems to be thinking in terms of a larger stadium than what is being proposed.

[(CFL) THE 13TH MAN]

Savage said that Mayor Kelly should have gone after Irving for naming rights. Do you think that Irving would put big money into a horribily designed bare boned 14 thousand small permanent seat stadium, after Irving received the biggest 25 billion dollar shipbuilding contract ever awarded in Canadian history. It just doesn`t make any business sense!