Confederation Line West LRT Extension (Stage 2) [Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[Richard Eade]

This will be a very expensive ‘extra kilometre’ if they build it to the standards of a finished, revenue LRT line. Think about the delay in extending the Transitway trench south of the Baseline Station and under Tallwood; it keeps getting delayed because of the cost. It turns out that there are ‘challenging’ ground conditions in the area between Baseline Station and the rail line. For example, I have heard that there is ‘running sand’ where the cut would be in the area of Tallwood. This would probably need to be de-watered. Unfortunately, I believe that the senior’s residence is built on a ‘floating slab’ foundation. If the neighbouring ground is de-watered for a trench, there would likely be differential ground subsidence under that slab; potentially causing cracking. This is an expensive option.

An alternative, of course, is to take the LRT tracks up, over, Tallwood. The run would be about 500 metres between the below-grade Baseline Station and the crossing of Tallwood, so a rise of, say, 15 metres would be practical (3% grade). Once up, the LRT could be left elevated to curve and pass over Woodroffe to get to the proposed M&S area. The LRT might need to cross over Woodroffe at a higher elevation than the VIA tracks since the LRT crossing is north of the VIA crossing, where Woodroffe is not yet at its lowest point. This option, however, is also not inexpensive because of all the support structure that would be necessary. [There might be an option to ‘float’ the Tallwood overpass embankments, but I don’t know if that is possible here. I suspect that City Staff are looking into this as it could drastically reduce the support structure needed; and, thus, the cost.]

As for a future extension of the tracks further south, having the M&S to the east would ensure that there is a service track fly-over of any south-bound tracks and Woodroffe. This needs to be designed in from the start so that the link does not need to be broken for future construction. This will also add to the cost.

There is already about 550 metres of tunnel at the Baseline Station that was originally planned for Transitway; that could house ten 50 metres long vehicles. Because the announcement mentioned two recommended sites, I am assuming that there will be another M&S site in the east end. Given that the southwest line will (eventually) be extended to Barrhaven, perhaps the M&S facility at Woodroffe could be a minimal site configuration. The storage could be in the existing tunnel (remaining vehicles stored in the east and central facilities), and a small, inexpensive, temporary, maintenance yard could be at the end of the line north-west of the Woodroffe/VIA crossing (south of the new City Archives). When the line is extended south, a final M&S facility can be built south of the Greenbelt, where the land is cheaper.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

This will be a very expensive ‘extra kilometre’ if they build it to the standards of a finished, revenue LRT line. Think about the delay in extending the Transitway trench south of the Baseline Station and under Tallwood; it keeps getting delayed because of the cost. It turns out that there are ‘challenging’ ground conditions in the area between Baseline Station and the rail line. For example, I have heard that there is ‘running sand’ where the cut would be in the area of Tallwood. This would probably need to be de-watered. Unfortunately, I believe that the senior’s residence is built on a ‘floating slab’ foundation. If the neighbouring ground is de-watered for a trench, there would likely be differential ground subsidence under that slab; potentially causing cracking. This is an expensive option.

An alternative, of course, is to take the LRT tracks up, over, Tallwood. The run would be about 500 metres between the below-grade Baseline Station and the crossing of Tallwood, so a rise of, say, 15 metres would be practical (3% grade). Once up, the LRT could be left elevated to curve and pass over Woodroffe to get to the proposed M&S area. The LRT might need to cross over Woodroffe at a higher elevation than the VIA tracks since the LRT crossing is north of the VIA crossing, where Woodroffe is not yet at its lowest point. This option, however, is also not inexpensive because of all the support structure that would be necessary. [There might be an option to ‘float’ the Tallwood overpass embankments, but I don’t know if that is possible here. I suspect that City Staff are looking into this as it could drastically reduce the support structure needed; and, thus, the cost.]

As for a future extension of the tracks further south, having the M&S to the east would ensure that there is a service track fly-over of any south-bound tracks and Woodroffe. This needs to be designed in from the start so that the link does not need to be broken for future construction. This will also add to the cost.

There is already about 550 metres of tunnel at the Baseline Station that was originally planned for Transitway; that could house ten 50 metres long vehicles. Because the announcement mentioned two recommended sites, I am assuming that there will be another M&S site in the east end. Given that the southwest line will (eventually) be extended to Barrhaven, perhaps the M&S facility at Woodroffe could be a minimal site configuration. The storage could be in the existing tunnel (remaining vehicles stored in the east and central facilities), and a small, inexpensive, temporary, maintenance yard could be at the end of the line north-west of the Woodroffe/VIA crossing (south of the new City Archives). When the line is extended south, a final M&S facility can be built south of the Greenbelt, where the land is cheaper.

The best answer I can think of:

* Extend this phase to Norice Street as a revenue extension, and build the Tallwood (Centrepointe) Station at this phase. However, there would be no bus terminal at that station, it would be entirely a walk-on station accessible from the lights at Norice, the Pinetrail path and from Tallwood to the north.

* Buses from Barrhaven and other local buses would continue to connect at Baseline Station, which has the sufficient facilities for transfers.

* Given the land conditions, it is tricky to keep it fully grade separated. Tallwood could either cross the LRT at grade coordinated with the lights at Woodroffe, or the LRT could elevate as mentioned before returning to grade at Tallwood Station. The pathway would likely have an at-grade crossing.

* The Woodroffe rail overpass is 2 tracks wide, but only one track exists presently. An option could be to widen the bridge to accommodate 3 tracks (2 for LRT and 1 for freight), then loop the LRT around a sweeping curve to connect to the revenue tracks just south of the Pinetrail pathway. That has to be carefully positioned to allow the LRT to pass underneath the bridge adjacent to Woodroffe for a southern extension. Fortunately, there is sufficient space in that forested/open area to connect the tracks without an additional structure over Woodroffe. Alternatively, if space exists without lowering Woodroffe, the overpass could be built for 4 tracks to protect future commuter rail.

* In a future phase to Barrhaven, no additional reconfiguration would be necessary there, since the tracks would run adjacent to Woodroffe and under the underpass immediately to the west, and the sweeping loop would allow trains to access the MSF from both directions. It would be ideal to open that space up in this phase (with a multi-use path in the interim) to avoid construction costs later. The north side location also avoids conflicts with any stations.

The rise from the tunnel to an overpass of Tallwood would only need to be about 10 metres, since the structure would need to have a clearance of about 4.9 m, and the LRT tunnel below Baseline would likely be about 5 m below grade. The descent back to grade level from Tallwood would be a drop of between 4 and 5 m, depending on the profile of the station.

[rocketphish]

City manager needs more time to negotiate LRT route with NCC

Ottawa Citizen
Published on: November 24, 2015 | Last Updated: November 24, 2015 10:57 PM EST

Ottawa city manager Kent Kirkpatrick says he needs still more time to negotiate an agreement with the NCC on the city’s planned western LRT route.

Kirkpatrick and city staff have been trying to strike a final deal with the National Capital Commission since April when the city and the commission came up with the so-called 100-Day Solution. That’s the agreement two parties worked out over the contentious western LRT route intended to run through federal lands on the south side of the Ottawa River in the Westboro neighbourhood.

In a report to go to council’s finance committee on Tuesday, Kirkpatrick asks for approval to extend the “100-Day Memorandum of Understanding” through to March 31, 2016.

The current memorandum of understanding, which has already been extended once, is set to expire on Dec. 31.

In his report, Kirkpatrick doesn’t mention any problems in the negotiations. Indeed, he maintains that “ongoing discussions between the NCC and the City remain productive.”

Staff, he said, continue to refine the functional alignment of the LRT route through the Parkway lands, as well as “advancing design concepts” for both the park and the realignment of the Parkway lanes.

Last November, the NCC called a halt to the city’s western LRT route, unhappy with the city’s plans.

The city wanted to run the train above ground for 500 metres west of Dominion Station, along the northern edge of Rochester Field, before dropping into a shallow tunnel that would eventually end up under Richmond Road in Westboro. The NCC, however, objected, saying it would affect its green space.

In April, the two parties finally agreed on a route that will the LRT run underneath a narrower version of Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway between Dominion and Cleary Stations. This not only preserves the existing green space, but increases the amount of parkland between the roadway and the south shore of the Ottawa River, helping the NCC fulfil plans for a national linear park along the Ottawa River.

Since then they have been trying to work out final details on the $980-million project.

An extension of the commitment to keep negotiating is “largely a formality,” Kirkpatrick concluded in his report

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...route-with-ncc

[Marshsparrow]

Plan B - run it down Carling!

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

City manager needs more time to negotiate LRT route with NCC

Ottawa Citizen
Published on: November 24, 2015 | Last Updated: November 24, 2015 10:57 PM EST

Ottawa city manager Kent Kirkpatrick says he needs still more time to negotiate an agreement with the NCC on the city’s planned western LRT route.

Kirkpatrick and city staff have been trying to strike a final deal with the National Capital Commission since April when the city and the commission came up with the so-called 100-Day Solution. That’s the agreement two parties worked out over the contentious western LRT route intended to run through federal lands on the south side of the Ottawa River in the Westboro neighbourhood.

In a report to go to council’s finance committee on Tuesday, Kirkpatrick asks for approval to extend the “100-Day Memorandum of Understanding” through to March 31, 2016.

The current memorandum of understanding, which has already been extended once, is set to expire on Dec. 31.

In his report, Kirkpatrick doesn’t mention any problems in the negotiations. Indeed, he maintains that “ongoing discussions between the NCC and the City remain productive.”

Staff, he said, continue to refine the functional alignment of the LRT route through the Parkway lands, as well as “advancing design concepts” for both the park and the realignment of the Parkway lanes.

Last November, the NCC called a halt to the city’s western LRT route, unhappy with the city’s plans.

The city wanted to run the train above ground for 500 metres west of Dominion Station, along the northern edge of Rochester Field, before dropping into a shallow tunnel that would eventually end up under Richmond Road in Westboro. The NCC, however, objected, saying it would affect its green space.

In April, the two parties finally agreed on a route that will the LRT run underneath a narrower version of Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway between Dominion and Cleary Stations. This not only preserves the existing green space, but increases the amount of parkland between the roadway and the south shore of the Ottawa River, helping the NCC fulfil plans for a national linear park along the Ottawa River.

Since then they have been trying to work out final details on the $980-million project.

An extension of the commitment to keep negotiating is “largely a formality,” Kirkpatrick concluded in his report

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...route-with-ncc

Don't get me wrong, I think parks are great, especially waterfront public spaces. But does anybody actually think that particular linear park is going to be particularly inviting given that cars will be zipping along at near highway speeds only a few metres away on a straightened Ottawa River Parkway (excuse me, ahem, Sir John A. MacDonald Parkway)?

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Plan B - run it down Carling!

Im pretty sure running it down Carling is Plan Z. Not that is isnt a good idea, but that it is highly impractical.

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Plan B - run it down Carling!

Oh God, I hope they don't resort to that. The Confereration line should remain fully grade separated. Traffic along Carling would render it non-rapid transit.

[rocketphish]

Federal transit funding could speed city’s LRT plans

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 22, 2016 | Last Updated: March 22, 2016 6:56 PM EDT

A pledge from the federal government to fund as much as 50 per cent of transit improvements over the next three years presents a huge opportunity for Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson as the city plans a $3-billion LRT expansion.

“We think it’s a very positive signal on the part of the federal government that they understand that there are a number of municipalities that don’t have the full financial capacity to pay for all of these projects,” Watson said Tuesday after the federal Liberals released their budget.

The Liberals revealed their plan to increase the federal share of transit funding over three years “to get projects moving quickly.”

That would amount to $3.4 billion across Canada and $1.4 billion in Ontario. The new Public Transit Infrastructure Fund would be divvied up to provinces based on transit ridership.

Watson is already eying that money to help pay for engineering and environmental studies for the Stage 2 rail extensions. The city needs $60 million for those so-called “soft costs” and has asked both upper levels of government to split the bill with the municipality. The $41-million bus rapid transit extension to Moodie Dr. might also qualify for the short-term transit money, the mayor said.

City council has already locked in a plan to extend its LRT to the Bayshore Shopping Centre, Algonquin College and Place d’Orléans, while bringing the Trillium Line O-Train to Riverside South, all by 2023.

For the blueprint to be “affordable,” the city has counted on one-third funding each from the provincial and the federal governments.

But with the Liberals agreeing to cover 50 per cent of transit costs in the short term, the city could urge the feds to stick with the funding formula over an extended period.

That’s certainly Watson’s intention.

He said the city could free up $500 million to spend on other projects if the feds pay $1.5 billion for Stage 2.



There are two priorities the city might pursue with any extra money. One would be a rail link between the Trillium Line and the Ottawa International Airport, which the city didn’t include in its Stage 2 rail plan because the $155-million estimate is simply too rich.

The other is a $160-million LRT extension to Trim Road, also considered unaffordable with each level of government contributing equally to the $3-billion project.

The next two years are key for transit investments at Ottawa City Hall. The Confederation Line LRT, the first stage of the project, will start running between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair station in spring 2018. The city’s expectation has been to begin building the second stage when first stretch is complete.

Now might be the time for the city to start looking hard at advancing LRT to Kanata, something not thought possible until after 2031.



Money available for pipes and sewers

The federal budget could also offer opportunities for the city to upgrade pipes and sewers. The budget earmarks $2 billion over four years for the work and the Liberals are also offering to pay as much as 50% of the eligible costs. The Liberals, however, have already sunk $62 million into Ottawa’s cornerstone sewer project: An interceptor tunnel for combined sewage overflow.

Housing help includes money for fixes

Ottawa Community Housing and the city’s social services department could get a boost from the budget. The Liberals want to spend $2.3 billion over two years on affordable housing, including $573.9 million on repairs and energy retrofits on existing units. Watson lauded the announcement, noting that renovations would be a priority.

City benefits from culture funds, rail study

Other pots of money in the budget will draw the city’s interest. There’s a fund to help communities renovate infrastructure for Canada’s 150th birthday in 2017 and another fund for arts and heritage facilities.

A small bundle of cash in the budget for Via Rail to undertake technical studies would be good for the city. The money would help the train company look at safety upgrades at its level crossings.

And while there’s no dollar figure attached to it, the Liberals are vowing to work with other levels of government to reduce guns and gang violence.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling


Key numbers:

$120 billion over 10 years for infrastructure across Canada
$3.4 billion over three years for public transit across Canada
$1.4 billion over three years for public transit for Ontario
As much as 50 per cent of eligible costs on transit projects covered by feds
$2.3 billion over two years for affordable housing
$168.2 million over two years for Canada Cultural Spaces Fund
$150 million over two years to regional development agencies to celebrate Canada’s 150
$7.7 million for Via Rail to conduct technical studies, incl

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...itys-lrt-plans

[Buggys]

Too bad O-Train double tracking is not on that list.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Too bad O-Train double tracking is not on that list.

Agreed. Unfortunately the biggest hurdle is the tunnel. I don't think they can widen it within the 4 month summer for Carleton students and having the line closed during the school year would be a major disruption. Their best bet would be to do it in two stages. First double track south of Carleton to increase capacity there. Once done, close the line north of Carleton and re-route students coming from the North and west to the southern line while the wider tunnel is being bored.

Extending the line south is just going to exasperate the difficulties widening the line.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Agreed. Unfortunately the biggest hurdle is the tunnel. I don't think they can widen it within the 4 month summer for Carleton students and having the line closed during the school year would be a major disruption. Their best bet would be to do it in two stages. First double track south of Carleton to increase capacity there. Once done, close the line north of Carleton and re-route students coming from the North and west to the southern line while the wider tunnel is being bored.

Extending the line south is just going to exasperate the difficulties widening the line.

Why would it have to be bored? Wasn't the original tunnel cut-and-covered?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why would it have to be bored? Wasn't the original tunnel cut-and-covered?

I don't know what they did initially, but I doubt if they would be allowed to drain Dow's Lake now to do a cut and cover.

[Kitchissippi]

They don't have to touch the existing tunnel at all, they can just twin it. This can be done in its own sweet time if they wanted.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I don't know what they did initially, but I doubt if they would be allowed to drain Dow's Lake now to do a cut and cover.

They wouldn't have to drain the whole lake. You'd just need to cofferdam a portion of it, and perhaps not even the whole thing at once.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

They don't have to touch the existing tunnel at all, they can just twin it. This can be done in its own sweet time if they wanted.

I'm not sure the current tunnel under Dows Lake is wide enough for that (I'm not an expert so I may be wrong though).

The city might be able to get away with double tracking most of the line except the Dows Lake tunnel and Rideau River bridge. Even if not perfect this would be an improvement from the current passing tracks that the Trillium Line has. Giving the trains a much wider passing area and mean that they don't have to slow down so much every time to let another train pass from the other direction.

The one hiccup might be if we keep having signal problems on the bridge/tunnel like we have occasionally had on the current passing tracks.

[Kitchissippi]

I meant build another separate single-track tunnel beside it. The service does not have to be shut down for this.

Build it with prefab segments and it could be laid in place in a matter of several months.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I meant build another separate single-track tunnel beside it. The service does not have to be shut down for this.

Okay, that makes sense.

[rocketphish]

City tweaks Stage 2 LRT alignment in west and east ends

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 24, 2016 | Last Updated: March 24, 2016 12:05 PM EDT



The city is changing the alignment of the LRT line in three places during the second phase of the project.

One tweak means the the LRT tunnel won’t have cut through the Unitarian campus on Cleary Avenue. The city proposes to swing the tunnel south sooner, going from east to west, cutting through the property of a current strip plaza at 747 Richmond Rd. Instead of Cleary station tucked behind the plaza on National Capital Commission land, the station would front Richmond Road.

The city says the change would concentrate the construction on one site, especially considering the redevelopment potential for the plaza property.

According to the city, the changes won’t impact the budget.

The Unitarian campus on Cleary Avenue has a church, seniors residence and child-care centre. The Unitarians have been pushing the city to swing the alignment away from the campus, fearing construction and noise would have a negative health impact to residents and operations at the child care.

There are two other changes in the east on the second-phase blueprint announced by the city Thursday.

Where the city was planning to run LRT below Blair Road and two ramps connecting Hwy. 174, it now wants to run trains along the existing Transitway on the north side of the highway, eliminating the need to build tunnels in the area. It’s cheaper, easier to maintain and has a better connection with the future Cumberland Transitway corridor east of Blair Road, the city says.

The final tweak, which will save $12 million, has the city bringing the LRT line into the median of Hwy. 174 sooner, going west to east. The transition was going to happen east of Montreal Road, but the city now wants to move trains to the median 2.3 kilometres farther west, just east of Blair Road. It means the city wouldn’t need to build a new 500-metre-long structure over Montreal Road. Montreal station would be located in the highway median.

It also means the highway would need to be widened to accommodate the LRT infrastructure. The city wants to bundle the Montreal Road bridge replacement, already planned in the next five years, with the Stage 2 LRT work.

The entire Stage 2 project, which extends LRT to Place d’Orléans, Algonquin College and Bayshore Shopping Centre, along with extending the Trillium Line O-Train to Riverside South, is projected to cost $3 billion.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-west-and-east

[rocketphish]

This is a huge improvement, not because it appeases the Unitarians, but because it brings the station out to Richmond Road where it should have been in the first place.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I meant build another separate single-track tunnel beside it. The service does not have to be shut down for this.

Build it with prefab segments and it could be laid in place in a matter of several months.

Mmmm..... immersed box tunnel... grrrgglgllgleellglglgll.

I hadn't thought of that option.