London Roads

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Sadly, the work going on is for more residential development, not an extention of Bradley. Don't expect that any time soon.

I think we need to go slap somebody down at city hall...seems like this would be a no brainer to do sooner than later.

[manny_santos]

Although I haven't seen the most recent work as I'm in Toronto, I would speculate a section of Bradley Ave will be built to service new residential development, but not actually functioning as an extension yet as it won't connect to White Oak Road.

Last time I was down there I noticed work going on west of the intersection, although I would speculate it is more commercial development.

[haljackey]

Here's a partial-y interchange I made in Simcity 4 that was inspired by the 401/402 junction in London.

Click for full size:

[go_leafs_go02]

it even includes that weird sudden jog on the 402 right when you get off the 401.

Still can't believe that hasn't been fixed fully. All of a sudden, the curve radius sharpens to meet the old extent from when the 401 was widened a few years ago.

[Kokkei Mizu]

You forgot the high-mast lighting!

[Snark]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

I think we need to go slap somebody down at city hall...seems like this would be a no brainer to do sooner than later.

Except that for the most part, the City is not in the business of building new roads.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

it even includes that weird sudden jog on the 402 right when you get off the 401.

Still can't believe that hasn't been fixed fully. All of a sudden, the curve radius sharpens to meet the old extent from when the 401 was widened a few years ago.

Yeah I tried to make it as accurate as I could based on the limitations of the game. That curve is pretty abrupt for a 400-series, especially due to the fact that you take it going 100+. It's pretty scary during the night too because the lighting system ends just before the curve begins.

Originally Posted by Kokkei Mizu

You forgot the high-mast lighting!

Well I didn't want to clutter it so you could see the roads themselves. I'll probably add some lighting and soundwalls next and then maybe develop the surrounding area.

[Wharn]

What is this weird jog everyone's talking about? I've been on that interchange a half dozen times and never noticed any such thing.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Wharn

What is this weird jog everyone's talking about? I've been on that interchange a half dozen times and never noticed any such thing.

You can see it here, 1:40 in.
• Video Link

It's a rather sharp curve for a 100+ speed. There's no hazard signs, and the lighting ends just before the curve begins.

It's really not that bad, but it is noticeable.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by haljackey

You can see it here, 1:40 in.
• Video Link

It's a rather sharp curve for a 100+ speed. There's no hazard signs, and the lighting ends just before the curve begins.

It's really not that bad, but it is noticeable.

It really look like the construction limits from the 401 widening didn't go far enough along the 402 westbound to ensure that curve would be taken care of. They did some resurfacing there, so it isn't as bad as before, but still, it's like 2 separate curves join up at a weird angle/jog.

[Pimpmasterdac]

MTO could've picked so many better junctions for 401/402.

While a through/cross city route would've been preferable, they picked such a weak one, Route E. Think if they had picked Route F! An interchange at Wonderland/Wharncliffe, a de facto west end freeway as it ran close to London and something that would've alleviated west end traffic.

Of course the current route doesn't do a damn thing for anyone travelling in London

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by haljackey

You can see it here, 1:40 in.

It's a rather sharp curve for a 100+ speed. There's no hazard signs, and the lighting ends just before the curve begins.

It's really not that bad, but it is noticeable.

Again, didn't really notice anything out of the ordinary. Maybe it's just because I'm used to driving on terrible two-lane highways, but for me that looks just like a normal interchange.

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

While a through/cross city route would've been preferable, they picked such a weak one, Route E. Think if they had picked Route F! An interchange at Wonderland/Wharncliffe, a de facto west end freeway as it ran close to London and something that would've alleviated west end traffic.

Route F would have also run right through two major obstacles: a "high-value" natural area and the Wharncliffe-Wonderland-Exeter triangle of doom. I wonder if any of that had an effect on the final decision.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Of course the current route doesn't do a damn thing for anyone travelling in London
]

While I don't technically live in London (I'm just east of town) my family uses the 401/402 to get to West London sometimes.

[manny_santos]

Techically they chose a combination of H and E - notice Route H runs west of Delaware, close to the junction of Highways 2 and 81.

[Snark]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

MTO could've picked so many better junctions for 401/402.

While a through/cross city route would've been preferable, they picked such a weak one, Route E. Think if they had picked Route F! An interchange at Wonderland/Wharncliffe, a de facto west end freeway as it ran close to London and something that would've alleviated west end traffic.

Actually, the final route was comprised of very little of the study routes shown, and for good reason: most of the Delaware Valley is sensitive watershed and Carolinian forest. Hence the reason for a provincial park, 4 conservation areas, and two privately owned natural areas in the immediate area surrounding Delaware. The village itself is one of the oldest in Upper Canada west of Toronto. As such, there was great opposition to any routing west of the city being proposed for the freeway during the assessment stage. I agree that it has not done much for City traffic patterns other that Wellington/Exeter Roads, but the ultimate route chosen was likely the least damaging in terms of social and environmental disruption for a 401 connection west of the city in face of substantial local opposition.

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Of course the current route doesn't do a damn thing for anyone travelling in London

That wasn't really the intention of the 402. Its primary function was intended to take the rapidly growing (primarily transport) traffic off of the run from the 401 to the Sarnia border via highways 126/2/81/22. Towns such as Lambeth, Delaware, Mt.Brydges, and Strathroy were being overrun. In current times without the 402 it would be unbearable for these communities. It would also be a serious hindrance to trade at the border.

[haljackey]

blanked post

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Route F would have also run right through two major obstacles: a "high-value" natural area and the Wharncliffe-Wonderland-Exeter triangle of doom. I wonder if any of that had an effect on the final decision.

The environmental concerns would be reasonable, except London still has planned a west end north-south freeway on moreless the same route F proposed by the 402 40 years ago. Only different is the city could have had 402 paid 80% by the provincial government and had 1/2 a ring for a ring road. Now anything would be paid by city or have less favourable kick-ins by senior levels of government. 40 years still behind the times

The triangle of doom did not exist at that time, Wonderland had yet to be extended south, Only Exeter & Wharncliffe met.

Originally Posted by Snark

That wasn't really the intention of the 402. Its primary function was intended to take the rapidly growing (primarily transport) traffic off of the run from the 401 to the Sarnia border via highways 126/2/81/22. Towns such as Lambeth, Delaware, Mt.Brydges, and Strathroy were being overrun. In current times without the 402 it would be unbearable for these communities. It would also be a serious hindrance to trade at the border.

Dead on 402 was to be a trade route to Sarnia was the primary goal, which was the number one goal. The province wanted to kill 2 birds at once though, having 402 being a trade route that would also benefit London as a freeway too. Unfortunately the city sat on its hands for years, allowed the Labatt family to influence the province and move the freeway so far north that would make the costs unpalatable.

Ultimately London squandered any chance of getting a freeway constructed that could've benefited the city, whether in the north and east or southwest, The route picked was out of London until we took over small villages and still doesn't benefit us as an in-city route would.

BTW nice pic of merging that map with a wonder one, how you do that?

[haljackey]

Since there was much discussion that resulted from the 401/402 junction I made in SC4, I whipped up a quick recreation of the Wellington/401 interchange.

Click for full size.


Yes, Kokkei Mizu, I included the light towers this time

[Pimpmasterdac]

Interesting Article in LFP, ongoing series about transportation.

It was supposed to be a brass ring of highways, a cross-town expressway through north London to speed travel through the city. But you won't find it on any map.

In the 1960s the Ontario government offered to pay 80% of the cost as part of a highway that would wind from the Hwy. 401 to Sarnia.

That ring of a highway was attractive enough to a city council in 1966 voted unanimously in its favour.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../18994151.html

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Interesting Article in LFP, ongoing series about transportation.



http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../18994151.html

It was an interesting read, although it didn't have a whole lot of "new" information. The one thing I didn't know was how low the traffic projections were for the northern leg of the ring road.

I think the northern leg of the ring road would be viable if it were part of a new provincial highway connecting Highway 402 near Strathroy to the planned Highway 7/8 freeway extension between Stratford and Kitchener, as it would provide a new link from K-W and Toronto to the U.S. border, while taking pressure off Highway 401.

In my opinion though, such a highway is a long way off.