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  #421  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2008, 6:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
Less than 10% of commuters ride mass transit. It'll be bad.


If gas stays at over $4 per gallon or god forbid goes up any higher then there will be a higher number of people who will ride mass transit.
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  #422  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2008, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
Center Square?? Are these people for real? Is Paul Lynde going to live there?

Why can't Utah developers come up with decent names. Why does the word "center" have to be in the name of nearly every development? I give them kudos for actually using the word "square," though... and for not calling it the Square Center.
The Center ? is easy. Because it's on Center Street!
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  #423  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 12:10 AM
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Center Street

Maybe the developers should have called it Center Street Square or Big V's Square?
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  #424  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DMTower View Post
Cottonwood Heights just voted to separate a few years ago... I doubt they will reincorporate.
Separate from what? Are you talking about the 2005 incorporation or was there something else that happened too?
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  #425  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by i-215 View Post
I disagree. I lived in Portland which had annexed several cities, and it seems you trade some efficiencies for new inefficiencies. While there's an economy of scale factor, there's also a stagnation that happens when cities are no longer competing for tax dollars.

Personally, I like WFRC ... which gives the planning advantages of a unified city, while still allowing cities the freedom to do things separately if they choose. They then can voluntarily enter economy of scale agreements (ala Unified Fire Authority) but if they fail, they can always leave and choose to do it themselves (ala Cottonwood Heights Police Department).

It also gives some variety because each city has it's own look (light poles, sidewalk patters, etc.)
While I see your point, I think there may be a few things you aren't considering.

First of all, I am not usually pro-big government (or big any organization for that matter) but I do believe the future of DT SLC and the Wasatch Front is connected with the perception outsiders have on the city. You can get much more attention with 550,000 figures than you can with 180,000 figures, even with an explanation of the MSA, CSA, Census Bureau, and blah, blah, blah. Yes, I understand that before any big money is spent they will do there homework and realize that the city is bigger than meets the eye. But often times it's about first impressions and if you don't make the first cut, your out.

Concerning competing sales tax dollars, well that's just a joke. 20 years ago it may have been important for one town to get a Burger King since the other already had a Mcdonald's, but it doesn't matter anymore. Many of our cities' boarders are so intertwined that residents cross boarders all of the time without knowing it. Show me the person who knows exactly where there city ends and the next begins? I am not saying we should unite all Wasatch Front cities, but definitely some of them.

As far as the local authorities go, I am all for local control. Where in the constitution does it say that you can't have a city with 550,000 people with more than one separate police force?

We need to think outside the box so that our communities can be united where they will benefit us as one and seperate where they will provide us the local attention and support that already makes them great!
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  #426  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 12:59 AM
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Interesting for this to come along just now haha

Townships happy just as they are
Salt Lake County's unincorporated suburbs ask to be left alone

By Jeremiah Stettler
The Salt Lake Tribune


They don't want to be their own cities. They don't want to join other municipalities. They just want to stay what they are: townships.
That's the message Salt Lake County's unincorporated suburbs will send to the Legislature this year as lawmakers weigh whether to keep the communities' borders intact...


http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10095902?source=rss
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  #427  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 3:21 AM
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Originally Posted by UV4EVER View Post
Separate from what? Are you talking about the 2005 incorporation or was there something else that happened too?
Sorry, I was referring to the incorporation. I grew up in Cottonwood Heights and we always addressed our mail as Salt Lake City so I mistook the incorporation as a separation. Anyhow, it seems like people in Cottonwood Heights are enjoying their status as an established city and I don't think they will be interested in merging any time soon.
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  #428  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 8:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
The Center ? is easy. Because it's on Center Street!
I'm surprised they didn't call it the Center Center then. This is Utah, the land where people name their children things such as Evan Evans.
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  #429  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 12:05 PM
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Township status suits us fine, residents say - Majority in survey want to protect their current borders, results surprise Corroon

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...248358,00.html

Back off, cities. Residents of Salt Lake County townships want nothing to do with you, according to a survey released Monday.

Township residents want to protect their borders, which are set to dissolve in 2010.

...It just felt like the cities come in and take portions of the (township) that benefit them the most but not necessarily the residents that are left behind," Angus said. "To me, that's not fair. If they are just going to take areas that benefit them and reduce our tax revenue, what's fair about that?"

...But Corroon said it must be a united effort between competing interests.

"The question is will the cities and the county come together and present a united front to the Legislature or will all the various interested parties just go up and fight for what they want?" Corroon said. "I'm sure some of the cities would like to annex parts of the unincorporated county. That's what we'll have to figure out whether we can work together on something or go up there and fight for our own interests."

.

Last edited by delts145; Aug 5, 2008 at 12:20 PM.
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  #430  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 12:28 PM
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New Lakes in Tooele - Developer aims to help disabled enjoy watersports

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...248406,00.html


Children play in Last Chance Lakes in Tooele County Monday. The lakes will take four months to fill. (Michael Brandy, Deseret News)

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  #431  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UV4EVER View Post
Concerning competing sales tax dollars, well that's just a joke. 20 years ago it may have been important for one town to get a Burger King since the other already had a Mcdonald's, but it doesn't matter anymore. Many of our cities' boarders are so intertwined that residents cross boarders all of the time without knowing it. Show me the person who knows exactly where there city ends and the next begins? I am not saying we should unite all Wasatch Front cities, but definitely some of them.
Actually the competing tax dollars isn't a joke. Whether or not the residents know exactly were the city boundaries are is not the point. The point, is that the tax rolls do. If the city A has a McDonalds just across the line from city B (even when the citizens don't know the boundary), and City B has no fast food restaurant, the citizens from City B will go to that McDonalds because there isn't another option close by, City A gets all the tax generated by the McDonalds. If City B has a new Burger King then some of the City B residents and possibly some City A residents will shift there spending to Burger King and thus providing City B with tax revenue that was formerly going to City A.
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  #432  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
I'm surprised they didn't call it the Center Center then. This is Utah, the land where people name their children things such as Evan Evans.
I'm glad I wasn't drinking when I read that.

I had a student last year named Hunter Hunter.

His middle name was probably Hunter.
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  #433  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 5:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jedikermit View Post
I'm glad I wasn't drinking when I read that.

I had a student last year named Hunter Hunter.

His middle name was probably Hunter.
hehe I went to school in Ogden with a girl named Casey Casey. freakin weirdo people.

I'm with everyone that thinks a few cities should be incorporated into Salt Lake. I think it's just crazy that you can be standing in the middle of downtown, walk 25 blocks south, and already be well into another city. 25 BLOCKS!!
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  #434  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 5:12 PM
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hehe I went to school in Ogden with a girl named Casey Casey. freakin weirdo people.

I'm with everyone that thinks a few cities should be incorporated into Salt Lake. I think it's just crazy that you can be standing in the middle of downtown, walk 25 blocks south, and already be well into another city. 25 BLOCKS!!
That would be 75 blocks in Portland. Remember scale.
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  #435  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 5:18 PM
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yeah I realize that they're 25 pretty big blocks. But still the city boundaries are outrageously small IMHO. I always felt the same way about Ogden growing up there - my mom would take us to the Ogden Country Club (ironically in South Ogden) on 42nd Street and Washington and I would stare north at the historic Ogden Municipal Building on 25th Street and Washington (downtown!) and ponder the fact that I was in a different city. Just didn't seem right.

I'm sure some kid will stand at the site of Market Station in a few years while his mom grabs a Starbucks or what have you and look north to downtown only to wonder how it can be so close, yet he is standing in the City of South Salt Lake.

We've been wronged people. Lol. Ok thanks for listening to my rant - carry on.

Last edited by UTAZLoVer; Aug 5, 2008 at 5:35 PM.
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  #436  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 5:54 PM
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Agreed, let's at least get Millcreek brought into Salt Lake City officially. It's just plain STUPID to not work something out with Millcreek.
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  #437  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanboy View Post
That would be 75 blocks in Portland. Remember scale.

That's true we do have big blocks here.
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  #438  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 6:41 PM
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More delays

So I just caught up with one of the developers of the Market Station development. Looks like they are running behind again; they are now hoping to begin construction before the end of the year. He mentioned they are still working with the RDA and are having some construction financing delays. Wah wah wah.

At least we have a few developments moving forward despite the current lending enviroment.
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  #439  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 6:58 PM
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City Sizes

Ok, just to clarify some sizes of cities and populations. This info is all taken from the US Census Bureau Quick Facts pages. Some of the population numbers differ slighlty from the US Census Bereau's American Fact Finder page but I am just using the quick facts page. Listed in order of size (square miles)

City_______________Population(2006 est)____Sq Miles_____Pop per sm
Phoenix____________1,512,986_____________474_________2,782.0
San Antonio________1,296,682_____________407_________2,808.5
Albuquerque________504,949______________180__________2,483.4
Denver____________566,974_______________153_________3,616.8
Portland___________537,081_______________134_________3,939.3
Salt Lake City______178,858_______________109_________ 1,666.1
Seattle____________582,454_______________83__________6,717.2
Boise_____________198,638________________63__________2,912.9

Ok I don't like those numbers. The one that sticks out the most is the population per square mile. Obvioulsy that is an issue considering the city limits go well into the mountains, where many of the other cities on the list don't have those issues.

On the above list SLC is the smallest population wise, even behind Boise , if SLC had just the average population per sm that the others have 3,608.4 it would increase the population to 393,320

It will be interesting to see what the 2010 census says about the population and if it has increased as expected.

Ok I wasn't really for it, and despite the fact that the townships don't want to be incorporated maybe it does need to be done. I would say Magna, Millcreek and S. SL. S SL is listed as 22,038, E. Millcreek at 21,385, Millcreek at 30,377 and Magna at 22,770 (2000 census). That would place the SLC population at 275,428. While not huge much better.

Here is a list of the same areas by MSA. Population estimates as of July 1, 2007

Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale_______4,179,427
Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue_______3,309,347
Denver-Aurora________________2,464,866
Portland-Vancover-Beaverton____2,175,113
San Antonio__________________1,990,675
Salt Lake City_________________1,099,973
Albuquerque__________________835,120
Boise-Nampa__________________587,689

Retailers base location decisions off of MSA and surronding MSA data, NO national retailer will base a location decision on only city population. Business owners may not however, but relocation firms do rely on MSA data. So fact based decision making won't change dramatically, but impression based opinions can change. That is when, as i have mentioned before, many business executives will go off personal likes and dislikes.

While it would be nice if SLC had a larger population, but along with a larger population come larger issues and sometimes larger problems. We all love SLC because it is a great city and has grown at a steady pace and managed that growth. If we want SLC to continue to love SLC for whatever it is each of us loves about it, the growth needs to continue to be steady in my opinion. SLC and the MSA are in a place that many other MSA's would like to be in, a much stronger and more resilant economy than a large majority of the nation, a growing population. Midwest industrial based economies would love to have any sort of population gain. SLC proper is expected to add over 10,000 residents just to the CBD, between 2005 and 2010, with an overall gain in the total city population expected also. Midwestern MSA have a stagnant population for nearly 4 decades and the core cites are hemoraging population every year.

Last edited by Future Mayor; Aug 5, 2008 at 7:23 PM.
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  #440  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2008, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
Ok I don't like those numbers. The one that sticks out the most is the population per square mile. Obvioulsy that is an issue considering the city limits go well into the mountains, where many of the other cities on the list don't have those issues.
If I read the chart right, SLC is the third smallest in terms of square miles. It would be interesting to see the overall square mileage of the entire county and get the population density off of that. I believe that Taylorsville is the most dense per square mile than any other City, but it is also completely landlocked and has virtually no undeveloped land. (approx. 60,000 people in 10 or 11 square miles or so).

The biggest way that population size impacts city operations and development is when it comes to federal and state funding, specifically homeland security funding and CDBG funding. SLC has faired pretty well in other federal funding areas, particularly transportation.

I do think that it makes a lot of sense for Millcreek to join SLC and can even see SSL. Zoning for dollars is a huge issue for cities and it absolutely results in poor regional planning. The more a city can generate in sales tax, the less they have to rely on property taxes which in Utah is a much more popular way to fund government.
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