Rapid Transit

[coalminecanary]

I think an entire rewrite of the bus routes will accompany the opening of LRT. We are due for it anyway!

Regarding A-Line, the more I think about it, the more I think it should run on john st. - it would disrupt less traffic, and john needs ec dev much more than james. james (especially north) is doing quite well as-is. it is an easy walk from john to james. lrt can have its dedicated lane all the way from waterfront to hunter. i am also thinking of some loop options for the mountain access... time for google maps!

[coalminecanary]

Why can't a-line come down Claremont and continue along victoria (or better yet, wellington) all the way to Burlington, turn west to john, turn north to hunter, turn east to Claremont and back up... no turnaround, no changing directions, just one giant loop.. the only extra expense would be the length of track along Burlington st... then you could have a Burlington st express bus from wellington to the qew so anyone commuting from mountain to any of the industrial area has a really easy go of it.. one transfer

[ryan_mcgreal]

If you put both LRT tracks on Main, Main will remain one-way.

Arrrgh. Main is a five-lane road:

* 1 lane for eastbound traffic
* 1 lane for eastbound LRT
* 1 lane for westbound LRT
* 1 lane for westbound traffic
* 1 lane for curbside parking

Convert all the streets back to two-way, and the total number of traffic lanes will be exactly the same as it would be if one LRT lane went on Main and one went on King.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal

Arrrgh. Main is a five-lane road:

* 1 lane for eastbound traffic
* 1 lane for eastbound LRT
* 1 lane for westbound LRT
* 1 lane for westbound traffic
* 1 lane for curbside parking

Convert all the streets back to two-way, and the total number of traffic lanes will be exactly the same as it would be if one LRT lane went on Main and one went on King.

good point....not only would there be the same number of lanes but there would be double the options for travel direction.

[adam]

And with 2-way traffic on Main and King drivers no longer have to spend so much time switching lanes / letting people in / trying to sneak into a lane. They can spend more time looking at what shops and businesses the downtown has to offer.

[BrianE]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

what about all the 5 buses and 52, 51 etc....

I still worry about this option in central Hamilton where King/Main are quite a distance apart. I know it's only a couple of stops - Sherman/Gage, but it would hinder the EcDev spinoffs in that area since someone north of king or south of Main probably won't want to make the long walk to the other LRT track when a Delaware or Cannon bus goes right past them. But whatever...it can't be perfect I guess.

I wonder about this too, since I live in the Sherman - Gage area. I'm sure they will keep the #5 Delaware Bus. I would take that to get downtown instead of walking 20 minutes to get to King St. LRT. It's a 10 min walk to Main and Sherman, so I would probly take the LRT to go east in the city.

[BrianE]

Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal

Arrrgh. Main is a five-lane road:

* 1 lane for eastbound traffic
* 1 lane for eastbound LRT
* 1 lane for westbound LRT
* 1 lane for westbound traffic
* 1 lane for curbside parking

Convert all the streets back to two-way, and the total number of traffic lanes will be exactly the same as it would be if one LRT lane went on Main and one went on King.

I suppose that situation would work... if nobody ever turned left off Main St. Everybody is forgeting the effects of turning right or left off Main and King. A car sitting in the single eastbound lane waiting to turn left on James street in this scenario would prevent anybody behind him from moving forward until a break in traffic or the light changes Red.

Oh, and don't forget, there's 5 lanes now, but widening the sidewalks on the north and south sides would effectivley make it a 4 lane road. Take 2 lanes for LRT and it's a single lane each way.

Oh, and does anybody have a sugestion for what to do at Main and Queen St. For a short stretch Main street bottlenecks to 4 lanes, as one lane is right turn only onto Queen. There are heritage buildings on the SE corner, that can't be expropriated and torn down.

[SteelTown]

I think we have to keep a fair balance here, taking away 4 lanes to provide 2 LRT lanes, 1 Westbound and 1 curbside parking lane along Main St will be tough to sell to some councillors as some have already expressed concerns with taking away just one lane.

I would like to have at least 3/4 support from councillors and to do that they'll likely support taking away one lane, perhaps two but not 4 lanes.

[LikeHamilton]

I cannot see any of the bus routes disappearing. This is to replace the present B Line service. The present B Line and the future A & B LRT are express routes stopping every 10 or 12 blocks. The others are local buses that stop every 2 blocks. You cannot loose these buses, as there will still be a need for them.

[SteelTown]

Yea not all will disappear but likely a bus route will either disppear or merge with another bus route, etc instead of having 5 bus routes along King and Main. They'll likely be a shake up.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by BrianE

I suppose that situation would work... if nobody ever turned left off Main St.

The whole point of wholesale two-way conversion is that you abandon the model of channeling traffic through a few major arteries. If Main is congested, take Markland, or Herkimer, or Charlton, or Hunter, or Jackson, or King, or York, or Cannon, or Barton instead.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal

The whole point of wholesale two-way conversion is that you abandon the model of channeling traffic through a few major arteries. If Main is congested, take Markland, or Herkimer, or Charlton, or Hunter, or Jackson, or King, or York, or Cannon, or Barton instead.

o come on, get real! We need more options than that!

[BrianE]

Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal

The whole point of wholesale two-way conversion is that you abandon the model of channeling traffic through a few major arteries. If Main is congested, take Markland, or Herkimer, or Charlton, or Hunter, or Jackson, or King, or York, or Cannon, or Barton instead.

Well... that is until you find yourself on a congested Main St and try to make a Left turn to get to King or Cannon... but you can't because everyone else is making a left turn to get off Main and because it's 1 lane EB and 1 lane WB nobody is moving.

All I'm saying is that considerations have to be made for traffic to flow North and South off the Main East and West streets. Which means that there have to be more than a single lane going in each direction or at least shoehorn in a left turn lane here and there.

[coalminecanary]

Brian, this is suburban thinking. Does Yonge Street have a left turn lane? Nope. Does it need one? Nope. Is it a good idea to use it as a through street? Nope. Does it function on lots of different levels - transportation, retail, street life, etc? Yep. That is the idea. The main streets through the core should serve more functions than "thoroughfare".

Main, King, James and John should not be made to pander to through traffic above all other uses. These are our major downtown streets. They need to support retail, traffic, pedestrians, cyclists, transit, street life, etc - and all should be given equal treatment.

Other options through downtown are available. It's not about choosing to get off of Main when there is a traffic issue - it's about not choosing main in the first place if your goal is to get through the city.

We have Wilson and Cannon - underused streets that could act akin to Toronto's richmond and adelaide while Main and King could be akin to Toronto's Queen and King.

[adam]

Brian, I used to drive in Toronto for 3 years and people learn to get into the right lane at an intersection to avoid being held up by someone turning left. Its worked perfectly fine for years.

[hamiltonguy]

Did ANYBODY read the report from the city?

LRT on James South WOULD have dedicated lanes. The report provides crosssections of every different area of street under LRT. Also the frequencies listed in the newspaper aren't quite correct. The B-Line will be 10 minute frequency (assuming no increase in ridership) and the central (Up. James and Mohawk to Downtown) section of the A-line will be 8(I think) (again assuming no ridership increase).

I really don't think it would be bright to run the LRT up the Claremont.

Honestly there's no way to use the claremont without sacrificing a great deal of speed (massive double back) or skipping St. Joe's Hospital (Major Employer) and still sacrificing speed.

I assume that with an LRT on James South all the East Mountain Buses would use John while the West Mountain Buses would terminate at Mohawk College and the 25/26 would be a loop up on the Mountain (both are connected to downtown by LRT).

I doubt that all service on King/Main would Stop. I assume the 5 buses from the East will terminate Downtown, The 1 will assume the full length of the 1A and will provide local service as well as service downtown Westdale.

The Western branches of the 5 would probably be renumbered and link up with the LRT.

52 and 52A(already a local non-through branch) at University Gardens. The 5C could go all the way to Ancaster every bus from McMaster and the 5 bus that services King Street in Ancaster could connect at the MUMC station, express via Cootes Drive.

I would hope though that the 27 isn't continued. I doubt the demand would be present.

[raisethehammer]

please post a link to the report...I missed it.
thanks.

[hamiltonguy]

http://www.myhamilton.ca/myhamilton/...asibilitystudy

Top Link on the Right, I can't figure out how to get it to link directly.

[raisethehammer]

ahh, that. Sorry, I thought a new one had been released this week.
thanks.

[SteelTown]

That's dated May 2008, when the Rapid Transit Office suggested building a tunnel. That plan has changed to use Claremont instead and will be presented to council in September.