Detroit & Michigan: Go-Town Transportation Lowdown

[animatedmartian]

SEMCOG released an interactive map using 2010 information on commuting patterns across Metro Detroit.

http://semcog.org/mapping/commute_map/index.html


For the most part, Metro Detroit is still pretty decentralized (not that I think anyone would be surprised by this). Nearly 280,000 workers commute into the city while almost 230,000 residents commute out of the city. Yet just under 115,000 actually live and work within the city.

At the same time, a number a suburbs have larger inflows than outflows. The top suburbs are Troy with 87,000 incoming commuters, Dearborn with 83,000 incoming commuters, Warren and Southfield with 82,000 incoming commuters, Livonia with 72,000 incoming commuters, Farmington Hills with 53,000 incoming commuters, and Novi with 34,000 incoming commuters.

Sterling Heights has 55,000 incoming commuters but still has 58,000 outgoing commuters. However, more residents are commuting to Troy and Warren than to Detroit.

Ann Arbor, on the other hand, is a little more centralized with 100,000 commuting into the city but only half that amount commuting out. And still about 40,000 live and work within Ann Arbor.

Interestingly, Detroit's second highest incoming commuters come from "out of region" which presumably means Canada.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

SEMCOG released an interactive map using 2010 information on commuting patterns across Metro Detroit.

http://semcog.org/mapping/commute_map/index.html


For the most part, Metro Detroit is still pretty decentralized (not that I think anyone would be surprised by this). Nearly 280,000 workers commute into the city while almost 230,000 residents commute out of the city. Yet just under 115,000 actually live and work within the city.

At the same time, a number a suburbs have larger inflows than outflows. The top suburbs are Troy with 87,000 incoming commuters, Dearborn with 83,000 incoming commuters, Warren and Southfield with 82,000 incoming commuters, Livonia with 72,000 incoming commuters, Farmington Hills with 53,000 incoming commuters, and Novi with 34,000 incoming commuters.

Sterling Heights has 55,000 incoming commuters but still has 58,000 outgoing commuters. However, more residents are commuting to Troy and Warren than to Detroit.

Ann Arbor, on the other hand, is a little more centralized with 100,000 commuting into the city but only half that amount commuting out. And still about 40,000 live and work within Ann Arbor.

Interestingly, Detroit's second highest incoming commuters come from "out of region" which presumably means Canada.

I find this sort of baffling. As someone who splits his time between Detroit and Lansing, I can say first hand that commuting into Detroit in the morning versus out of Detroit, is far, FAR worse. It's the same in reverse in the evening. I can cruise out of Detroit using the Lodge in the AM and traffic is choked, if not completely at a stand still, most mornings. On the way out, you can set your cruise control.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by subterranean

I find this sort of baffling. As someone who splits his time between Detroit and Lansing, I can say first hand that commuting into Detroit in the morning versus out of Detroit, is far, FAR worse. It's the same in reverse in the evening. I can cruise out of Detroit using the Lodge in the AM and traffic is choked, if not completely at a stand still, most mornings. On the way out, you can set your cruise control.

Yea it's kind of weird.

The collective commuting into Detroit come from a farther distance.

Those commuting to the high job center suburbs usually live in the suburbs adjacent or the case of Southfield and Dearborn, come from the west side of Detroit. Chances are most people are either using Southfield Freeway or surface streets if they're close enough.

Then, you have a good number of west side Detroit residents commuting to Southfield, but then a greater number of people from Southfield, Farmington Hills, and parts of the west side of Detroit, are commuting downtown via the Lodge.

But then too, you also have to consider how many of those commuting out of Detroit are carless. I'm pretty sure the jobs counted include any range of wages and those mostly commuting out of Detroit could very well be mostly low-wage jobs. This site allows you to go into detail over that stuff, but it's complicated as shit and a headache to deal with (at least to me).

But overall, people are just traveling all over the place and from experience, I know Sterling Heights can be a clusterfuck of traffic especially when there's no freeways that actually run through the area. Most places have traffic going in one direction, but there's an increasing amount of areas where this isn't the case, particularly middle Oakland and Macomb County.

[LMich]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Interestingly, Detroit's second highest incoming commuters come from "out of region" which presumably means Canada.

I actually wouldn't just presume that. It could be Canada, but it could also be Genesee County or the Lansing area. As you yourself said, Detroit commuting is just a mess. Not necessarily congestion wise, but just the pattern. It's all over the place.

[LMich]

Found this at the RTA's webpage. The RTA was briefed on the Woodward Avenue Rapid Transit Alternative Analysis on June 5. Nothing really new was introduced, here, but it has some handy graphics to keep as reference. The 27-mile, 26-station line includes 13 miles directly in the median, 8.5 miles running directly next to the median, and 5.5 miles of curb running lanes, mostly at each loop-end of the line in Pontiac and Detroit.

As was already revealed a few months back, so as not to compete with the streetcar route and existing bus service, at the Detroit loop-end the BRT runs off Woodward and takes Cass and John R via Rosa Park Transit Center in both dedicated curb lanes and mixed traffic in very small parts of the route. The other direct downtown stop is the Grand Circus Park Station. In the rest of city proper the BRT runs in the center-lane from Grand to 6 Mile, and from 6 Mile to 8 Mile in the median. North of 8 Mile it continues to run in the median all the way to Long Lake in Bloomfield Hills where it then runs alongside the median.

All-in-all, this looks to be a fairly solid line. The finished plan is to be submitted before the RTA in August with the expectation it'll be adopted. The next step is the environmental assessment.

[animatedmartian]

Included at the 375 public meeting were also proposed changes to Jefferson and the 375/75 interchange.








http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...e_downtow.html

[JonathanGRR]

Would it really be that much more expensive to just put a cover over 375 and Jefferson and have small surface streets? Instead, it seems as though they're creating overly complicated ideas of pedestrian-friendly streets while trying to keep the same high-volume capacity that exists now...it just doesn't work, IMO.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by jonathan.jam

Would it really be that much more expensive to just put a cover over 375 and Jefferson and have small surface streets? Instead, it seems as though they're creating overly complicated ideas of pedestrian-friendly streets while trying to keep the same high-volume capacity that exists now...it just doesn't work, IMO.

The main thing with this project (that many people seem to forget/not know) is that the bridges along 375 need to be reconstructed no matter what which is where most of the expense comes from. If it's cheaper to just remove them and have 4-way intersections, then why not go the cheaper route? If it's going to become a surface road, then that effectively means more traffic will interact with pedestrians, no? So then why not make it as pedestrian-friendly as can be and also make traffic flow easier. It's still going to be a high-volume roadway just without as many bridges.

Adding a cap to 375 really doesn't change anything that actually needs to be changed and actually seems like a needless addition. That's additional maintenance money being spent over the long-term.

If 375 was an actual bypass rather than a spur, then that might make more sense, but it doesn't connect to anywhere that people can't reach by using the Lodge or 75 via surface streets.

[ssiguy]

Is any public money being spent on the Woodward Line or is it strictly private?

[LMich]

Are you talking the streetcar line? If so, it's a mix of private and public money.

As for those alternatives, for both West and East Jefferson, I'd choose alternative #2. East Jefferson doesn't need to be a boulevard, and for West Jefferson, alternative #2 is the one of the two that brings 375 to grade. And, for the Gratiot Connector, my heart tells me the alternative that remove it to altogether (Alternative #2) to make people find alternatives to coming to this side of downtown by car. But, my head tells me that people wouldn't and you'd just end up clogging the Gratiot/375 at-grade interchange creating a total clog.

I'd be really disappointed and kind of shocked after all this energy put into it for the powers-that-be to keep this freeway as is. It seems pretty much that the thrust of this entire plan is to point people toward a surface street south of Gratiot, and I hope this doesn't turn out to be a bait and switch. It's crazy to think not that long ago they were actually talking of extending the freeway down to Atwater.

[ssiguy]

I'm sorry but I really have reservations about the city contributing one nickel towards the Woodward Line.

In the latest APTA report just released, Detroit transit say it's weekday ridership collapse 28% from the 1st quarter of 2013. Most cities in the country had marginal declines possibly due to the extreme cold weather in January.

When ridership is collapsing, service is poor and unreliable, the city is bankrupt, and essential services are being slashed to the point of dangerous, I think Detroit would have better priorities. This line seems more political than anything else and certainly isn't rapid transit. With declining ridership in the rest of the system and service cuts connectivity to the line will be even worse. Detroit should be concerned with maintaining and improving the current beleaguered system before it even contemplates one nickel for what may prove of little relevance to the long suffering transit riders of Detroit.

If the line was 100% private with senior levels of government contributing the rest then great but the city shouldn't be contributing to a line that may drain the already starving system of future funds and bleed operational funds from already poorly served areas.

This will make for great ribbon cutting but I think Detroiters would be far better served by the money going into the current system before they even contemplate an expensive streetcar route.

[animatedmartian]

The M-1 line is 60-75% privately funded and is only 3-some miles long. Originally, the line was 9-miles long and was going to more publicly financed by the city and federal money. However, that was right before the bankruptcy occurred. Once bankruptcy occurred, the city trashed the plan but the private sector of downtown Detroit wanted to keep going with the project. And thus the project we have today.

And while it's sort of related but would lead into an OT discussion, Detroit's bankruptcy wasn't entirely driven by a lack of tax revenue. Yes, it played a part, but there was far more substantial systematic and political problems that was draining tax revenue from city projects and into debt payments. The bankruptcy allowed the city to correct major problems and restructure its debt.

Basically, the city for a period of years was making loans to pay for union pension funds. It was paying the interest on those loans with tax and casino revenue instead of funding city services. It was an unsustainable way of money management unless Detroit had some massive growth to make up for it.

I don't doubt that Detroit can pay for this project in full, others projects (Red Wing Arena being a recent mention), and city services at a sufficient level based on current tax revenue. Investing in infrastructure and services will generate returns in the long-run, whereas its previous major expenses on pensions and debt will not. It may seem like the city ran out of money, but it really hasn't. It was just locked up with the pensioners, who understandably are very upset about having their pensions cut.

[LMich]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I'm sorry but I really have reservations about the city contributing one nickel towards the Woodward Line.

In the latest APTA report just released, Detroit transit say it's weekday ridership collapse 28% from the 1st quarter of 2013. Most cities in the country had marginal declines possibly due to the extreme cold weather in January.

When ridership is collapsing, service is poor and unreliable, the city is bankrupt, and essential services are being slashed to the point of dangerous, I think Detroit would have better priorities. This line seems more political than anything else and certainly isn't rapid transit. With declining ridership in the rest of the system and service cuts connectivity to the line will be even worse. Detroit should be concerned with maintaining and improving the current beleaguered system before it even contemplates one nickel for what may prove of little relevance to the long suffering transit riders of Detroit.

If the line was 100% private with senior levels of government contributing the rest then great but the city shouldn't be contributing to a line that may drain the already starving system of future funds and bleed operational funds from already poorly served areas.

This will make for great ribbon cutting but I think Detroiters would be far better served by the money going into the current system before they even contemplate an expensive streetcar route.

I really think you need to do more research on this before passing judgement - particularly such specific judgement based on what you will find are bogus assumptions on your part - of the public money, the vast majority of which is coming from the feds. This fed (FTA) money is not money that could have gone to DDOT for general operations.

You also need to look into the bankruptcy, and see how money is being freed up for DDOT. M-1 Rail almost has nothing to do with DDOT (it will not be owned or opereated by DDOT) or the bankruptcy since this isn't a City of Detroit-guided project. After its privately operated, it will either be handed over or purchased by the metro's regional transit authority.

Sorry to be so harsh, but you made an awfully pointed criticism based on a very faulty understanding about a whole host of things, and then tying things together that can't be tied together.

[Innsertnamehere]

It's ssiguy, he dismisses anything that isn't a metro line as a "waste".

[ssiguy]

That is the stupidest comment I have ever read.

I didn't realize that the line will not be run by DDOT so maybe I was hasty. Will a regular bus fare/pass be able to be used on the route or will it require a separate fare?

[LMich]

Until the RTA standardizes all fares, at least in the beginning, this will exist as its own line. Again, this line is not being operated by any public body in the beginning. M-1 Rail will operate this line until the RTA is fully functional, which won't happen until at least 2016.

If you have any additional questions about this line, here is the FAQ page at their website:

M-1 Rail

[animatedmartian]

News came out earlier today that M-1 Rail had a $12 million dollar shortfall due to a possible TIGER grant that the have yet to award them, Matt Cullen reassured that the M-1 Rail would still start construction which is expected sometime next week.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...river_business

[LMich]

It's hilarious to me that it took the local media finding Cullens plea to the FTA for the TIGER grant for us to finally get even a tentative timeline out of M-1. lol Finally, after they were essentially forced to come out with a statement, do we find that this thing could get city council permit approvals as soon as next week.

I tell you, for as hard as folks are on the public transit agencies of the region - and they often deserve it - as far as PR is concerned, these captains of industry running M-1 Rail are every bit as incompetent and disorganized when it comes to messaging.

If they have to dip into future operating for construction, so be it. Squirreling away ten whole years of operational funds seems a bit much to begin with. Putting in $12 million dollars into capital costs is, what, about two years of operating funds, right? That still leaves you eight whole years to get this thing handed over to the RTA.

[animatedmartian]

The drama filled saga that is mass transportation in Detroit.

What's taking the M-1 Rail so long to get moving?
By John Gallagher. June 23, 2014.



Leaders of the M-1 Rail project made a bold prediction in March 2009: With a little luck, the 3.3-mile streetcar line along Woodward Avenue would break ground that fall and carry its first passengers late the next year.

The project has yet to break ground, though that has been promised again for this summer, with passenger service starting in late 2016.

But another obstacle seemed to crop up last week when a letter surfaced from Michigan’s congressional leaders requesting a $12.2-million federal grant for the project to plug a funding gap the lawmakers said could delay the project indefinitely. That news contradicted what M-1 leaders had said publicly — that the shortfall was only $4 million and no big deal.

The lawmakers and project planners are now waiting to see whether the federal grant comes in from the U.S. Department of Transportation. If not, M-1 Rail planners say they could move some money around, move ahead with construction and raise the rest of the money later. The line would run from Jefferson Avenue north along Woodward to New Center at Grand Boulevard.

From the project’s beginnings as a 100% privately funded project to the latest plea for more federal money, M-1 Rail has become a case-in-point for the delays often associated with big developments, especially public infrastructure projects. Among other issues, M-1 Rail has been plagued by infighting over the scope of the project and by overly optimistic projections about fund-raising and construction schedules.

Also, M-1’s claim that using 100% corporate money would speed its launch proved unworkable when more money was needed from public sources. If anything, the private-funding model led to as many problems as it solved. Area business titans, including Dan Gilbert and Roger Penske, have donated millions to the project.

Megan Owens, director of the nonprofit transit advocacy group Transportation Riders United, said business leaders made the mistake of approaching the project like they were erecting a private building.

“A piece of transit infrastructure is different than a building,” she said. “There’s a lot more complexity to it.”

For example, M-1 Rail planners were blindsided when federal transportation officials insisted on the creation of a regional transit authority in metro Detroit before they would provide aid. That meant more delays with legislation and debate in Lansing over how an authority would operate.

....

I'll definitely breath a sigh of relief when the groundbreaking happens sometime this week. Just having this project started seems like an accomplishment in it of itself.

[animatedmartian]

The last major hurdle for M-1 rail is crossed and now it's a countdown to groundbreaking.

Detroit City Council OKs permits for M-1 streetcar project

June 24, 2014. LEONARD N. FLEMING .

The M-1 Rail officials announced Tuesday that they will begin construction on the 3.3-mile Woodward Avenue streetcar line in July after City Council approved project permits.

The unanimous vote earlier today for approved construction and operating agreements by council paves the way for the $137M Woodward Avenue line that has been years in the making.

...