Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Not too take away from this scintillating conversation - but I found this massive photodump on the Red Patch Boys forum that was just posted from today

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread...-thread&p=1776704&viewfull=1#post1776704

Originally Posted by GabrielHurl

You want pics - you got pics ........ I was down there today. The south end roof fabrication is actually complete - you can see it on the ground in a number of the pictures. Just waiting to be lifted into place.

The first 9 are taken with my cellphone - the rest are with my camera

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread...-thread&p=1776705&viewfull=1#post1776705

Originally Posted by GabrielHurl

Post 2

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showthread...-thread&p=1776705&viewfull=1#post1776706

Originally Posted by GabrielHurl

Post 3

[esquire]

^ Thanks for sharing the photos. BMO won't win many style points but it should offer up a pretty good atmosphere when the improvement project is finished.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

Okay, so maybe Ricky Ray is up there with Peyton Manning in the quarterbacks-who-look-like-your-dad in the eyes of teenagers, but if you're looking for intense farmboy defensive ends there is a dude in Toronto who comes to mind

OK this is weird. I never typed that quote you responded to.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

A Canadian league wouldn't be anywhere near in quality to the MLS. The MLS does more to train and produce Canadian football talent than any Canada-wide league currently could simply based on sponsorship and funding and exposure to the American market.

Unless you're implying that non-MLS clubs in Canada are pumping out National Team players.

National Team Players and their Youth clubs, current age in brackets:

Simon Thomas (25) - Whitecaps Residency
Adam Straith (25) - Whitecaps Residency/Victoria United
Karl Ouimette (23) - Impact Academy/Trois-Riviere Attak
Manjrekar James (22) - North York Azzuri/Sigma FC
Sam Adekugbe (20) - Whitecaps Residency/Calgary Foothills
Russell Teibert (23) - Whitecaps Residency
Jordan Hamilton (19) - TFC Academy
Manuel Aparicio (20) - TFC Academy
Kianz Froese (19) - Whitecaps Residency
Cyle Larin (20) - Sigma FC

It's impossible to claim that this is the optimal set-up however. We will soon see if Canada qualifies for the next WC, but whether it does or doesn't it's equally unclear if the MLS academies had anything to do with it - I am not sure they have been established long enough to give the team that big a boost.

Even so, I think a strong case could be made that an all-Canadian first division with about 10 teams across the country (each with their own academy) would provide a lot more opportunities for talent to develop. And add to that a second division in smaller cities with perhaps as many teams.

As it stands now there are the three MLS clubs and not all families have the money or the interest in having their kids relocate to Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver at a fairly young age just for soccer. There are a couple of other options though: the NASL Ottawa Fury also have an academy. I know kids who have been a part of it. But in most of the country there isn't really a local or even regional option for promising young soccer players. Something we'd have way more of if we had a true Canadian first division, etc.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Riise

And ironic since being able to support a locally niche sport would actually boost their credentials.

I think that many people fail to realize just how stupid the anti-CFL, NFL-glorifying chatter by Canadians (from Toronto or anywhere else) sounds to foreign ears.

Most anywhere else in the world, supporting your own stuff and liking foreign stuff is not a hermetically-sealed, mutually exclusive proposition. But for many Canadians it would seem that it is a bit like cheering for Rangers and Celtic simultaneously in Glasgow.

Anyway, in my youth I worked in tourism in Ontario and sometimes tourists would ask for a suggestion of a typically Canadian sporting event to attend. As this was the summer, I'd often suggest they take in an Argos, Ti-Cats or Rough Riders game. On a half-dozen occasions, when I made that suggestion the response I got was that the (foreign) tourists' Canadian relatives had already told them to stay away from the CFL game and not touch it with a ten-foot pole! And adamantly tried to discourage them from going even though the foreigners themselves were interested or curious!

Now that made me ashamed to be a Canadian. More than the CFL ever could.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

They also said this was the ONLY idea they have

Re: the Calgary stadium

From the FAQ

Q: Is it going to look like the current images on the website?

A: The images on this website are initial designs. In reality, a number of different designs for CalgaryNEXT have been, and continue to be considered. The primary focus in evaluating them will be internal function and comfort, but rest assured, CalgaryNEXT will make a significant architectural statement to Calgary’s skyline.

[isaidso]

That reddish brown wooden TFC logo on the side of BMO Field looks great. I'm wondering when an equally sized bluish wooden Argos logo will accompany it. They really only have 1 shot at getting this right and its these small details that will make or break it.

If you show up at an Argos game it needs to feel like one. You can't do anything about the red seats but you have to give the team equal billing on the outside and in the concourses or you've immediately sent a message to sports fans that they're 2nd fiddle. That's something that was very apparent at Skydome.

Not only were they 2nd fiddle to the Jays but they weren't even the #1 football team despite being the primary football tenant. All football banners and marketing on the outside was Buffalo Bills. That HAS to change.

If they fail to address this issue I'll have no other option but to conclude that they don't know what they're doing.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's impossible to claim that this is the optimal set-up however. We will soon see if Canada qualifies for the next WC, but whether it does or doesn't it's equally unclear if the MLS academies had anything to do with it - I am not sure they have been established long enough to give the team that big a boost.

Even so, I think a strong case could be made that an all-Canadian first division with about 10 teams across the country (each with their own academy) would provide a lot more opportunities for talent to develop. And add to that a second division in smaller cities with perhaps as many teams.

As it stands now there are the three MLS clubs and not all families have the money or the interest in having their kids relocate to Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver at a fairly young age just for soccer. There are a couple of other options though: the NASL Ottawa Fury also have an academy. I know kids who have been a part of it. But in most of the country there isn't really a local or even regional option for promising young soccer players. Something we'd have way more of if we had a true Canadian first division, etc.

Very well put.

Amateur regional leagues and even a national would do wonders for this country and much more than just three MLS franchises. As Canadian clubs would need to be self-sufficient, they would need to manager their backyards and create proper production lines (i.e. a local youth development system that went beyond their academy).

[elly63]

Originally Posted by isaidso

If they fail to address this issue I'll have no other option but to conclude that they don't know what they're doing.

Please, I think Copeland and Moore might know a bit more than people who post in Internet forums.

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by elly63

Re: the Calgary stadium

From the FAQ

Q: Is it going to look like the current images on the website?

A: The images on this website are initial designs. In reality, a number of different designs for CalgaryNEXT have been, and continue to be considered. The primary focus in evaluating them will be internal function and comfort, but rest assured, CalgaryNEXT will make a significant architectural statement to Calgary’s skyline.

Sorry - to clarify: Ken King said this is the only idea they have, not the actual design.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by isaidso

That reddish brown wooden TFC logo on the side of BMO Field looks great. I'm wondering when an equally sized bluish wooden Argos logo will accompany it. They really only have 1 shot at getting this right and its these small details that will make or break it.

If you show up at an Argos game it needs to feel like one. You can't do anything about the red seats but you have to give the team equal billing on the outside and in the concourses or you've immediately sent a message to sports fans that they're 2nd fiddle. That's something that was very apparent at Skydome.

Not only were they 2nd fiddle to the Jays but they weren't even the #1 football team despite being the primary football tenant. All football banners and marketing on the outside was Buffalo Bills. That HAS to change.

If they fail to address this issue I'll have no other option but to conclude that they don't know what they're doing.

This!! X100. I have little faith in MLSE for this though. In Metlife you dont know the Jets play there when the Giants are playing and visa versa. La kings are homless when the lakers/clippers are playing visa versa. In the ACC you know 2 teams play there from the second you walk through the doors, But it makes sense with both under the same ownership. I just Hope the Argos get the same treatment.

As for BMO itself call it what you want. I'll take it over THF or TD place. Not to put those 2 down they are both great CFL stadium's but Honestly BMO is growing on me more and more everyday. It's not perfect but If I had to pick out of the 3, I would say the Argos got the best stadium

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

This!! X100. I have little faith in MLSE for this though. In Metlife you dont know the Jets play there when the Giants are playing and visa versa. La kings are homless when the lakers/clippers are playing visa versa. In the ACC you know 2 teams play there from the second you walk through the doors, But it makes sense with both under the same ownership. I just Hope the Argos get the same treatment.

As for BMO itself call it what you want. I'll take it over THF or TD place. Not to put those 2 down they are both great CFL stadium's but Honestly BMO is growing on me more and more everyday. It's not perfect but If I had to pick out of the 3, I would say the Argos got the best stadium

MetLife came to my mind too, but the difference of course is that it and Staples were built from the ground up as multi tenant venues while BMO has been TFC's for several years now. I suspect it will be a bit like Barclay's in Brooklyn where you have the Islanders moving into what is essentially the Nets' arena. But that said, the Argos can still do a lot like hang banners and what not to give it that homey feeling.

I'm planning to head to Toronto and Niagara for my summer vacation this year, so I'm hoping the CFL scheduling gods smile upon me... I'd really love to check out a game at BMO this summer and see the facility. I'd have to agree that it's taking shape in a way that should make it the best CFL stadium in Ontario, although to be honest that is not exactly the highest praise.

[blueandgoldguy]

BMO is the best stadium with regards to premium seating - loges, suites, club seating and various lounges - when compared to TD Place and THF. When it comes to the general seating THF have both beat hands down.

BMO has thousands upon thousands of cheap-looking bucket seats. I have heard the leg room is not all that great either. TD Place appears to be a step-up although I have heard from some who attend that the seats are somewhat on the cheaper side. At THF, there is ample legroom, all the seats have ample back support and they are 22 " wide - the widest for general seating of any stadium in North America.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's impossible to claim that this is the optimal set-up however. We will soon see if Canada qualifies for the next WC, but whether it does or doesn't it's equally unclear if the MLS academies had anything to do with it - I am not sure they have been established long enough to give the team that big a boost.

Even so, I think a strong case could be made that an all-Canadian first division with about 10 teams across the country (each with their own academy) would provide a lot more opportunities for talent to develop. And add to that a second division in smaller cities with perhaps as many teams.

As it stands now there are the three MLS clubs and not all families have the money or the interest in having their kids relocate to Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver at a fairly young age just for soccer. There are a couple of other options though: the NASL Ottawa Fury also have an academy. I know kids who have been a part of it. But in most of the country there isn't really a local or even regional option for promising young soccer players. Something we'd have way more of if we had a true Canadian first division, etc.

Alternative prior was Europe, so them remaining in Canada but being in a different province is not a bad deal.

I see it as a plus.

Canada has shown to many times to be no frills with sport (aside from hockey) and MLS provides a infrastructure to make these Academies a reality with the assurance of proper facilities, funding, and coaching.

What inventive does the NASL have for footing the bill for a Academy when the MLS clubs will do it for them?

USA knows how to develop amateur/minor athletes. They get the dollars and infrastructure in place for evrey sport, Canada can benefit following their lead when possible. Aside from the CHL I find development systems up here to be very spare and poorly funded.

I see it as the same as the Raptors 905 essentially becoming a major-junior national team/academy in Canada for basketball. The roster is packed full of Canadian kids and once the NBA fixes the dodgy D-league CBA and boosts salaries it will become a legitimate incubator for Canadians kids who just miss the draft or are not polished enough to hold a NBA roster spot after University.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by osmo

I see it as a plus.

While it is better than nothing, the MLS simply isn't the saviour of footy in this country. Vancouver is the smallest Canadian city with an MLS franchise and one high-level academy in a city of 2.5 million isn't nearly enough far less one in a city of 6 million or three in a country of 35 million.

You alluded to the importance of the CHL to hockey and that is a massive part of what footy needs in this country. Youth coaches from Antigonish to Vancouver must be taught how to properly develop/nurture players and high-level academies must outnumber CHL teams.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Just saw this pic of BMO and at this angle the North Stands seem very small and I know TFC fans are complaining that they are losing the "intimacy" that 4 sides bring, but I think if there is a party deck there with 4-5 rows of seating in front of it for soccer games, they won't lose much and I think that the party deck crowd will bring in new fans that might not have gone to a game before. Same with Argos fans in that respect too

Although not big, the small expansion to the north end did make a difference in making the stadium feel more intimate and closed off.
The desire of TFC fans was always further expansion to the north end, it had already gone through one round of expansion and a second round that would expanded and closed it of was always hoped.

Below are my 2 favourite MLS Stadiums, They are both closed off are seem a lot more intimate than BMO field will.
Sporting Park in Kansas City, Capacity 19,000


Red Bull Area in NYC, Capacity 25,000


But the existing north end with the additional roof on the other sides still would have looked better than and empty area looking into nothingness

[Dr Awesomesauce]

There are some fine MLS stadiums out there. The one in Houston is great too...

[Nite]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

There are some fine MLS stadiums out there. The one in Houston is great too...

Yes BBVA is nice, Definitely nicer than BMO, but still not as good as Red Bull Area Or Sporting Park in my opinion

BBVA Compass Stadiums

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^Sexy. Cheers for that.

[Horus]

BMO is an ever-evolving work in progress. While the north end will be "empty" this year, I would not be surprised if they come up with a workable solution to close it off once they have a full season of shared occupancy behind them.

I'd rather they make an informed evaluation after a full season of shared occupancy than rush into something that could be proven unworkable for the long run.