Saskatoon Construction III

[Saskabusher]

Originally Posted by The Bess

No, as was stated before the spire is good to go whenever they want.

Perfect! The Saskatoon skyline is about to.... Ah, I'll reserve judgement, but at least we'll be punching our weight soon. With so many new buildings being proposed, some must be able to beat the bureaucratic hurdles....

[phone]

Looks like ground has broken for the new St. Frances Bilingual Cree School on the site of Sion Middle School in Holliston: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...toon-1.6889170

This is great news for students, First Nations groups, and the city at large, the school will have capacity for 700 students, will provide meals, and I am sure will be an essential place for cultural learning. Hope it is a catalyst for improving social conditions.

I was complaining a while ago about the lack of investment into the aesthetics in public buildings in this province. The new St. Frances school looks to be an exception to this complaint. I would not go so far as to call it beautiful but it sure looks a whole lot better than the joint-use schools in Stonebridge, Hampton Village etc. And 3 stories -- when was the last time a 3 story elementary school was built in Saskatoon? The 1910s?

Pic from the article:

[Crisis]

The aesthetics of St. Francis school did not come without a cost. It was tendered and was extremely over budget, had some re-design, re-tendered and eventually awarded, still significantly over budget.

The government does not seem to see the value in architecture for our public buildings. While I can see how an argument can be made for purely functional buildings, I can't understand why they seem to be ignoring the life-cycle costs and are mandating building design (specifically materials & systems) that will result in schools being demolished after 25 years because they are literally falling apart.

[phone]

Originally Posted by Crisis

The aesthetics of St. Francis school did not come without a cost. It was tendered and was extremely over budget, had some re-design, re-tendered and eventually awarded, still significantly over budget.

The government does not seem to see the value in architecture for our public buildings. While I can see how an argument can be made for purely functional buildings, I can't understand why they seem to be ignoring the life-cycle costs and are mandating building design (specifically materials & systems) that will result in schools being demolished after 25 years because they are literally falling apart.

It sounds like you are familiar with the tendering process on this project. Is your impression that aesthetics were valued over materials & systems in this case? It seems fairly straightforward that the latter should be valued over the former, though in an ideal world it shouldn't be a game of either/or.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by phone

It sounds like you are familiar with the tendering process on this project. Is your impression that aesthetics were valued over materials & systems in this case? It seems fairly straightforward that the latter should be valued over the former, though in an ideal world it shouldn't be a game of either/or.

I'm not as familiar with this project as those that bid it, but I am aware of what went down. This is an attractive building with many curved walls, which certainly do add cost. However, the biggest issue is the Owner's insistence on relying on 2 year old budgets from 3rd party cost consultants. There's a lot of "shoot the messenger" mentality currently, where the client is pissed off at the LOW bidder that the project is over budget.

This is a widespread issue at the moment. Most contractors, both general contractors and trade contractors, are busy right now and aren't taking on projects at ridiculously thin margins like they once did. Combine that with continually increasing material and labour costs and the price of construction is rising at a much faster pace than overall inflation. This reality has not been recognized by those responsible for project budgets.

Just last week (see attached link below), the Library Board doubled down on their assertion that Saskatoon's new Central Library is tracking on budget at $80M, as they've had similar budgets provided by their cost consultants. This project has been out for tender for about 3 weeks now and the general consensus in the industry is that the price will be in the $120M - $150M range. Questions have been formally submitted to the Owner's contract administrators asking for the process that will be followed when the tenders received are all significantly over budget. They simply reiterated their confidence in their budget and basically said that they will cross that budget bridge when they come to it. I guess we'll find out when tenders close on July 26th.

A $50M shortfall in the Library budget should go nicely with the City's similar operating budget shortfall forecast for next year.

Library Budget & Schedule update: https://saskatooncentrallibrary.ca/c...hedule-update/

BTW, if you go to that page, make sure to check out the "design" tab on the left hand side of the page. It contains the Final Design Report and a video explaining the design. It really is a great building, with a very interesting structure & envelope. It's just not going to be $80M.

[prairieguy]

Willows Hotel and Spa
I heard about this on the radio this morning. Not clear to me if this is still a "nordic spa" proposal just in a different location or a new proposal. I was really disappointed the NIMBY"s defeated the Nordic Spa concept the first time. I still believe that would be a fantastic addition to Saskatoon's tourism and winter activity options. Having visited one recently in Alberta, I can attest it is a very cool experience!! (no pun intended)

https://www.ckom.com/2023/06/28/deve...elopment-plan/

[reddo]

Originally Posted by Crisis

I'm not as familiar with this project as those that bid it, but I am aware of what went down. This is an attractive building with many curved walls, which certainly do add cost. However, the biggest issue is the Owner's insistence on relying on 2 year old budgets from 3rd party cost consultants. There's a lot of "shoot the messenger" mentality currently, where the client is pissed off at the LOW bidder that the project is over budget.

This is a widespread issue at the moment. Most contractors, both general contractors and trade contractors, are busy right now and aren't taking on projects at ridiculously thin margins like they once did. Combine that with continually increasing material and labour costs and the price of construction is rising at a much faster pace than overall inflation. This reality has not been recognized by those responsible for project budgets.

Just last week (see attached link below), the Library Board doubled down on their assertion that Saskatoon's new Central Library is tracking on budget at $80M, as they've had similar budgets provided by their cost consultants. This project has been out for tender for about 3 weeks now and the general consensus in the industry is that the price will be in the $120M - $150M range. Questions have been formally submitted to the Owner's contract administrators asking for the process that will be followed when the tenders received are all significantly over budget. They simply reiterated their confidence in their budget and basically said that they will cross that budget bridge when they come to it. I guess we'll find out when tenders close on July 26th.

City is in a similar problem with the Harry Bailey building right now. Quotes from 4 years ago were 20M now they're 60M.

[YIMBYxe]

Originally Posted by phone

It sounds like you are familiar with the tendering process on this project. Is your impression that aesthetics were valued over materials & systems in this case? It seems fairly straightforward that the latter should be valued over the former, though in an ideal world it shouldn't be a game of either/or.

I'm hearing the province is using the same budget per square foot that they used for schools in 2014. Saying these are over budget because of aesthetics is missing the mark. Inadequate funding is the real issue. Also hearing from construction contacts that St Frances is one of the more cost effective designs of all of the recently tendered schools.

[Saskabusher]

The new Cree school is very exciting and looks great! It's about time! It's a very positive addition to the Saskatoon educational system and will help weave the future fabric that will indeed make Saskatoon an amazing place on the map.

However, it's unfortunate it's called St. Francis, and not named after an historical elder. The fact that the Catholics still control the place is far too little too late. They should be smart enough to step away from the plate.

Unfortunately, they are too well funded by the gov't and others, so their fingerprints are left not only on the victims of the past, but also on these new beginnings. It's just not right, this Catholic penance. We see through it. For the abusers, the record stands. Stop making First Nations Catholics! It's BS!

Correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding of this project :>)

[Wyku]

Originally Posted by reddo

City is in a similar problem with the Harry Bailey building right now. Quotes from 4 years ago were 20M now they're 60M.

Rising costs force delay of upgrades to Saskatoon's Harry Bailey pool
Planners are taking another look at the project to revitalize the 48-year-old facility after bids came in higher than expected.

https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...ry-bailey-pool

Awesome...

[electricmodes]

Originally Posted by Wyku

Rising costs force delay of upgrades to Saskatoon's Harry Bailey pool
Planners are taking another look at the project to revitalize the 48-year-old facility after bids came in higher than expected.

https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...ry-bailey-pool

Awesome...

I'm a bit baffled as to why they closed the pool down quite a while back already in anticipation of this renovation when the contractor/budget wasn't even close to being finalized.

[reddo]

Originally Posted by electricmodes

I'm a bit baffled as to why they closed the pool down quite a while back already in anticipation of this renovation when the contractor/budget wasn't even close to being finalized.

They had announced the closure date and before it even got to that date the heating system died and they had to heat the pools with rented boilers in the parking lot for the last week or so. I heard that was fairly expensive to run, I can't say if they would have delayed the closure if the heating kept going but keeping the pool running at is wasn't really an option.

[4LSaskatoon]

https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...box=1689363110

[The mayor]

Wrong city

[4LSaskatoon]

https://www.saskatoon.ca/engage/corr...ning-districts

[Echoes]

I see this office building on 12th St is moving to Council: https://www.saskatoon.ca/engage/509-12th-street-east

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by Echoes

I see this office building on 12th St is moving to Council: https://www.saskatoon.ca/engage/509-12th-street-east

Decent looking office budling that should fit in well with the 8 storey residential building next to it. I hope that people won't complain too much about the height, given there's a 20 storey residential development planned a block away. The shape of the site/building makes for awkward parkade levels, but the designers appear to have maximized the usage as best they could.

[4LSaskatoon]

Looks like the move will Aug.1st.!
https://www.sasktoday.ca/central/loc...locate-4738445

[Roquentin]

Does anyone have $10M to spare?

https://www.icrcommercial.com/proper...-Saskatoon-SK/

[phone]

Originally Posted by Roquentin

Does anyone have $10M to spare?

https://www.icrcommercial.com/proper...-Saskatoon-SK/

Maybe someone can turn it into an indoor lasertag arena, themed like an office a-la something out of Counterstrike