Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Maybe you are missing my point. I said that Toronto teams draw a lot of fans from LONDON, yet I don't know of anyone in LONDON that drives down for CFL games. Yep, this is my experience, not a scientific poll.

I do see how Hamilton can draw decent crowds - they will never get a pro football team and it's highly unlikely it will ever get another "pro" team. Its teh same reason why London's OHL team sells out 9,100 people 12 years in a row because we have no legit shot at an NHL team. Hamilton is content with CFL as they will never get a NFL team, but Toronto is totally different. They have a legit shot at an NFL team and overall are not that interested in a second rate league.

And you had just said previously that you weren't dissing the CFL? 🏈

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Maybe you are missing my point. I said that Toronto teams draw a lot of fans from LONDON, yet I don't know of anyone in LONDON that drives down for CFL games. Yep, this is my experience, not a scientific poll.

I do see how Hamilton can draw decent crowds - they will never get a pro football team and it's highly unlikely it will ever get another "pro" team. Its teh same reason why London's OHL team sells out 9,100 people 12 years in a row because we have no legit shot at an NHL team. Hamilton is content with CFL as they will never get a NFL team, but Toronto is totally different. They have a legit shot at an NFL team and overall are not that interested in a second rate league.

Maybe people from London don't go watch Argo games in Toronto, but as Oilkountry has pointed out a couple of times recently, people in Toronto do...

Until Braley put the Argos more or less on a barebones budget two years ago with next to zero marketing, a typical Argo game drew in the 20-30 thousand range per game. In other words, an Argo game would draw more fans than a Blue Jays game at the time. So clearly someone had to be interested enough to attend in those kinds of numbers.

[HomerSPC]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

they will never get a pro football team

Excuse you. The CFL is professional football.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by HomerSPC

Excuse you. The CFL is professional football.

Darn tootin'

The CFL may not have the inflated salaries (and egos) of the NFL, but it is professional football, and the quality is not that much different than the NFL.

A comment like that would be similar to saying that MLS is "amateur" because it doesn't have the skill levels of Premier League soccer in the UK.........

[Riise]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

Tough to experience any atmosphere when you're stuck in a lineup for the better part of a quarter. And when did I say I wanted craft beer and poutine? All I want is a decent fan experience which is something McMahon can't provide. It is an outdated piece of shit.

While it definitely needs some upgrades and some of the poor facilities do take away from the experience, it is far from a terrible experience for many fans and still rather enjoyable.

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

I'm guessing you will be delighted to see this article from the Herald this morning: http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news...in-west-village-wont-balance-says-nenshi

I'm happy that Nenshi is calling out a poor proposal for being poor but I'm definitely not pleased with the situation. CSEC is capable of proposing something much better and well thought out. They have put all of their eggs in the Calgary Next basket yet, for instance, I'd happily pay a ticket tax at McMahon if it went toward upgrading the bathroom and concession facilities and I doubt I'm the only one.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by HomerSPC

Excuse you. The CFL is professional football.

Yeah, based on comments like that where he gets fundamental facts wrong, I'm not entirely sure that Greattallnorth knows what he's talking about.

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by Riise

While it definitely needs some upgrades and some of the poor facilities do take away from the experience, it is far from a terrible experience for many fans and still rather enjoyable.




I'm happy that Nenshi is calling out a poor proposal for being poor but I'm definitely not pleased with the situation. CSEC is capable of proposing something much better and well thought out. They have put all of their eggs in the Calgary Next basket yet, for instance, I'd happily pay a ticket tax at McMahon if it went toward upgrading the bathroom and concession facilities and I doubt I'm the only one.

Have to agree about the proposal being poor. That location and idea had great potential but it was like they just came up with the proposal the day before and hoped it would fly. Now they've wasted a ton of time and money with zero backup plan.

As a Stamps season ticket holder I'd really like to see something better than just minor upgrades to McMahon. Can we seriously not compete with a city a quarter of our size? No offense meant Regina! Maybe we just don't care as much about the CFL so we just accept a mediocre (at best) sports facility?

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, based on comments like that where he gets fundamental facts wrong, I'm not entirely sure that Greattallnorth knows what he's talking about.

Yes, forgive me. I was lying. Most people in London actually drive to CFL games and that's why it's so hard to get tickets for the Argos. I didn't realize that you westerners were just so darn sensitive aboot the CFL.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

Have to agree about the proposal being poor. That location and idea had great potential but it was like they just came up with the proposal the day before and hoped it would fly. Now they've wasted a ton of time and money with zero backup plan.

As a Stamps season ticket holder I'd really like to see something better than just minor upgrades to McMahon. Can we seriously not compete with a city a quarter of our size? No offense meant Regina! Maybe we just don't care as much about the CFL so we just accept a mediocre (at best) sports facility?

No pressure or anything Calgary, but the list of cities that are either working on, or have recently completed either new or substantially renovated facilities includes cities bigger and smaller than yours

Regina
Winnipeg
Vancouver
Hamilton
Ottawa
Toronto

[speedog]

Originally Posted by esquire

No pressure or anything Calgary, but the list of cities that are either working on, or have recently completed either new or substantially renovated facilities includes cities bigger and smaller than yours

Regina
Winnipeg
Vancouver
Hamilton
Ottawa
Toronto

Well, Toronto is the only larger city but that aside, it is very strange here in Calgary. Both the Flames and Stampeders have very good fan bases/support and yet we have ancient facilities by either league's standards and it's not like the Flames ownership group doesn't have deep pockets. For sure, the next facility won't be built on either the Calgary Stampede grounds (Saddledome) or the University of Calgary's grounds (McMahon) - this is the only way the Flames can fully control parking and concessions.

That said, I fully don't expect anything coming out of the ground for at least 5 years and I don't think the NEXT proposal is the optimum solution. The rink needs to be near the core but a new football stadium not so much so IMHO..

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by esquire

No pressure or anything Calgary, but the list of cities that are either working on, or have recently completed either new or substantially renovated facilities includes cities bigger and smaller than yours

Regina
Winnipeg
Vancouver
Hamilton
Ottawa
Toronto

That's the thing though - there is NO pressure. No one here really seems to care at all about the subject.

[esquire]

^ Well, in this case doing nothing IS probably an option... highly doubtful that the Flames or the Stamps would be going anywhere even if their venues weren't replaced anytime soon. For what it's worth, I don't think that the Saddledome or McMahon are even really that bad.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by speedog

Well, Toronto is the only larger city but that aside, it is very strange here in Calgary. Both the Flames and Stampeders have very good fan bases/support and yet we have ancient facilities by either league's standards and it's not like the Flames ownership group doesn't have deep pockets. For sure, the next facility won't be built on either the Calgary Stampede grounds (Saddledome) or the University of Calgary's grounds (McMahon) - this is the only way the Flames can fully control parking and concessions.

That said, I fully don't expect anything coming out of the ground for at least 5 years and I don't think the NEXT proposal is the optimum solution. The rink needs to be near the core but a new football stadium not so much so IMHO..

+Vancouver... And Ottawa is approx the same too... basically half and half on each side in that list.

Regardless, had oil not cratered, it could have been a different story. Unfortunate really.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Maybe you are missing my point. I said that Toronto teams draw a lot of fans from LONDON, yet I don't know of anyone in LONDON that drives down for CFL games. Yep, this is my experience, not a scientific poll.

I do see how Hamilton can draw decent crowds - they will never get a pro football team and it's highly unlikely it will ever get another "pro" team. Its teh same reason why London's OHL team sells out 9,100 people 12 years in a row because we have no legit shot at an NHL team. Hamilton is content with CFL as they will never get a NFL team, but Toronto is totally different. They have a legit shot at an NFL team and overall are not that interested in a second rate league.

Last time I checked, TiCats players get paid to play, therefore it is a pro team. Outside of the 3 DPS, most TFC players make what CFL players make.

When is Toronto going to get an NFL team, especially with a 70 cent dollar, not going to happen, There is LA to sort out, London, etc.

I hate it when people call the CFL second rate, it does not have the economic scale of the NFL, but there are guys playing, busting their asses off for the love of the game and to support their families.

GTN2, if you are not the boss of your own company or a f-ing CEO does that make you second rate at your job?

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Nathan

+Vancouver... And Ottawa is approx the same too... basically half and half on each side in that list.

Regardless, had oil not cratered, it could have been a different story. Unfortunate really.

C'mon - post said city, not CMA.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by speedog

C'mon - post said city, not CMA.

Haha, you can't be serious

[Riise]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

As a Stamps season ticket holder I'd really like to see something better than just minor upgrades to McMahon.

To be fair, the bathroom and concession upgrades would have to be more than minor upgrades. However, CSEC do not want to do anything other than minor upgrades to facility that they do not own and would rather see any possible increases in ticket price go toward income rather than a sizeable improvement expenditure.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by esquire

Haha, you can't be serious

I am very serious - CMA is a much different thing then city but that isn't the scope of this thread. Point is the big time sports facilities in Calgary are seriously lacking other than I suppose Winsport - hell, we don't even have an publicly accessible auto racing facility nearby and there isn't even one that's going to be built near Calgary for the foreseeable future. But I suppose we have Spruce Meadows - maybe that evens things out, eh.

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Well, in this case doing nothing IS probably an option... highly doubtful that the Flames or the Stamps would be going anywhere even if their venues weren't replaced anytime soon. For what it's worth, I don't think that the Saddledome or McMahon are even really that bad.

Not bad when it comes to just watching but I get tired of the brutal lineups and cramped concessions. McMahon was built in 1960 and designed to hold only 20k so any time the Riders or Eskimos are in town you may as well forget eating, drinking or taking a piss. I've missed entire quarters! The Heritage Classic and last Grey Cup were absolute disasters. You would have had an easier time getting off the Titanic.

Not sure why the Saddledome concourse was designed so poorly. Very cramped and impossible to use the washrooms during intermissions.

First world problems I know, but when you see world class facilities like New Mosaic or the new arena in Edmonton, you wish you could have the same. Plus, I really like cool architecture and McMahon has zero design and the Saddledome looks like someone left their tupperware in the microwave too long.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Riise

To be fair, the bathroom and concession upgrades would have to be more than minor upgrades. However, CSEC do not want to do anything other than minor upgrades to facility that they do not own and would rather see any possible increases in ticket price go toward income rather than a sizeable improvement expenditure.

While the Saddledome is a lost cause as far as upgrades - the facility just isn't built in such a way to do anything of the sort, McMahon could be improved upon at some expense but as the University of Calgary owns McMahon, that just won't ever happen.

If you could completely replace the bathroom and concession areas at McMahon with something bigger and better (yeah, it could be done) and better seats, would people consider keeping the old girl around?