Winnipeg Construction X

[The Unknown Poster]

I saw a petition going around against the condos planned for Pandora. One guy I know is mad because he has a pool and hosts a lot of parties that get pretty wild and doesnt want condo residents looking into his yard. I suppose that would likely reduce the toplessness at his pool.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by T'Cona

What I would like to see is increased funding for downtown infrastructure. We can no longer tolerate crumbing curbs, streets, sidewalks, and I would also like to see new, and maintained trees, landscaping, etc. The city has a role in keeping downtown attractive to residents and visitors.

Good point. I'm not sure if it's TIF money that has upgraded the infrastructure in the SHED area, but you can really see the stark difference between the nice surroundings around there versus the worn out looking streets and sidewalks throughout much of the rest of downtown.

It would be nice to see some more infrastructure upgrades along those lines throughout the downtown area.

[T'Cona]

Originally Posted by esquire

Good point. I'm not sure if it's TIF money that has upgraded the infrastructure in the SHED area, but you can really see the stark difference between the nice surroundings around there versus the worn out looking streets and sidewalks throughout much of the rest of downtown.

It would be nice to see some more infrastructure upgrades along those lines throughout the downtown area.

Agreed. The work done on Lily is pretty nice, and I would like to see that repeated.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

What does "doing it right" mean? Jubilee was built in the early 1900s. You're saying the city should have saved space for an expressway, a concept that literally didn't even exist at the time?

In fact, Jubilee was at the end of a streetcar line heading downtown, which was absolutely "doing it right" in a 1900 context. Suburban sprawl and the shift from transit to private automobiles were still decades away at that point.

I just keep beating the same dead horse. So will leave it alone after this. The City lacks a connected transportation network. All the various pre-merger Cities did their own thing. Resulting in expressways dumping into residential neighbourhoods allover the place.

[davequanbury]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I get the urbanist argument for shorter buildings, but there is a distinct image and branding advantage that comes with having new very tall towers. 10 new 5 storey buildings would never be noticed in the skyline, while a 50 storey tower would actually make a mark in that regard. It looks great and people from across Canada would notice whenever Winnipeg's skyline shot is presented. And functionally there is not much of a difference at all between 2x25 between 1x50. At the end of the day you're still talking about towers.

I don't think it necessarily has to be one or the other... if someone wants to build a 50 storey tower, they shouldn't be dissuaded on the grounds that it will somehow thwart Winnipeg from achieving its destiny as the Paris of North America or whatever.

Great points!
Interesting that when we talk about private development, there is a need to 'brand' buildings in order to sell units. Conversely, when we talk about the density of Paris it came from a government-led top down approach in which uniformity and concinnity were prioritized.

Seems like the urban experience, street-level interest, and consistent density that Paris afford are less likely to result from the private development model. Yet it is the private development model gives us the memorable and iconic structures like the Eiffel tower. The question for me is, where does urban fabric benefit from the "Haussman approach" and where does it benefit from the private development model?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I get the urbanist argument for shorter buildings, but there is a distinct image and branding advantage that comes with having new very tall towers. 10 new 5 storey buildings would never be noticed in the skyline, while a 50 storey tower would actually make a mark in that regard. It looks great and people from across Canada would notice whenever Winnipeg's skyline shot is presented. And functionally there is not much of a difference at all between 2x25 between 1x50. At the end of the day you're still talking about towers.

I don't think it necessarily has to be one or the other... if someone wants to build a 50 storey tower, they shouldn't be dissuaded on the grounds that it will somehow thwart Winnipeg from achieving its destiny as the Paris of North America or whatever.

I generally like 10 storey buildings in downtown Winnipeg because they get built....50 storey towers are always a long shot....not many developers can risk $100mil+ on a single residential development in downtown Winnipeg....but if someone wants to do it....giver.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I just keep beating the same dead horse. So will leave it alone after this. The City lacks a connected transportation network. All the various pre-merger Cities did their own thing. Resulting in expressways dumping into residential neighbourhoods allover the place.

People love to make this claim, but can you give an actual example of a place where an expressway dumps into a residential neighbourhood at a pre-merger city boundary, in a way that could have been prevented by better planning? For the most part, the major arterial roads run seamlessly through the old city boundaries.

I don't think it's the old city boundaries that's the problem, it's the fact that Winnipeg's road network evolved in the streetcar era, when almost all travel was oriented towards downtown. Even today it's still very easy to drive to downtown from pretty much anywhere in the city, no matter how many old city boundaries you have to cross. The road network was laid out very well for what it was originally intended to do: feed streetcars into the downtown core.

Of course that same network won't work as well for crosstown trips, but that's not a failure of planning. The road network already existed long before suburb-to-suburb travel became the new reality. It's not something that could have been planned for at the time.

[Spocket]

Well! A 50 floor residential building in Winnipeg. Never thought I'd see the day. Of course, given what we know so far, I still haven't seen the day and may well never see it either. But, something to cross my fingers for nonetheless.

That being said, COVID has done nothing at all to slow residential development of the urban variety in Canadian cities. Or perhaps I'm looking at it all with too great a tint to my rose colored glasses. Given COVID where we'd have expected pretty much all development proposals to get kiboshed, we're seeing a lot. And not just small scale stuff either. Plenty of tower proposals in all kinds of unlikely places. Seems there's been no slow down at all.

The days of office towers dominating skylines, while not over, are probably coming to an end. As I said months back, I suspect most downtown development will be residential with a sprinkling of mixed use dropped in liberally.

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Well! A 50 floor residential building in Winnipeg. Never thought I'd see the day. Of course, given what we know so far, I still haven't seen the day and may well never see it either. But, something to cross my fingers for nonetheless.

That being said, COVID has done nothing at all to slow residential development of the urban variety in Canadian cities. Or perhaps I'm looking at it all with too great a tint to my rose colored glasses. Given COVID where we'd have expected pretty much all development proposals to get kiboshed, we're seeing a lot. And not just small scale stuff either. Plenty of tower proposals in all kinds of unlikely places. Seems there's been no slow down at all.

The days of office towers dominating skylines, while not over, are probably coming to an end. As I said months back, I suspect most downtown development will be residential with a sprinkling of mixed use dropped in liberally.

Fuck. Yes.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

People love to make this claim, but can you give an actual example of a place where an expressway dumps into a residential neighbourhood at a pre-merger city boundary, in a way that could have been prevented by better planning? For the most part, the major arterial roads run seamlessly through the old city boundaries.

I don't think it's the old city boundaries that's the problem, it's the fact that Winnipeg's road network evolved in the streetcar era, when almost all travel was oriented towards downtown. Even today it's still very easy to drive to downtown from pretty much anywhere in the city, no matter how many old city boundaries you have to cross. The road network was laid out very well for what it was originally intended to do: feed streetcars into the downtown core.

Of course that same network won't work as well for crosstown trips, but that's not a failure of planning. The road network already existed long before suburb-to-suburb travel became the new reality. It's not something that could have been planned for at the time.

One example, while not an expressway is Provencher, it dead ends at an industrial zone. And was originally supposed to be connected to Broadway when Winnipeg decided nope, and built a train station in the way. The multiple different municipalities have definitely had an impact on the layout of the city.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Hecate

One example, while not an expressway is Provencher, it dead ends at an industrial zone. And was originally supposed to be connected to Broadway when Winnipeg decided nope, and built a train station in the way. The multiple different municipalities have definitely had an impact on the layout of the city.

Anybody please feel free to correct me but wasn't there a bridge that actually did connect Provencher to Broadway at one point that got washed away not long after it was built?

[Hecate]

I’m not sure, but that does sound familiar.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by Hecate

One example, while not an expressway is Provencher, it dead ends at an industrial zone. And was originally supposed to be connected to Broadway when Winnipeg decided nope, and built a train station in the way. The multiple different municipalities have definitely had an impact on the layout of the city.

But the industrial zone where Provencher dead-ends is not a former city boundary, so that example has nothing to do with multiple different municipalities.

At the downtown end of Provencher, the original connection to Broadway was replaced with a connection to Portage & Main, which doesn't seem like a bad tradeoff to me. Particularly since Broadway was just a residential district at the time.

[peg]

I wonder if the turn of the century St. B had Nimby's who'd protest the bridge being linked to P&M instead of Broadway?

Anyway, a rumoured 50 story proposal in Winnipeg? Love to hear it!! Cannot wait to see renderings/details

[LilZebra]

A Petronas or Toronto Canada Trust TD Tower Im still; waiting upon. Fifty or 60 storeys here.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Anybody please feel free to correct me but wasn't there a bridge that actually did connect Provencher to Broadway at one point that got washed away not long after it was built?

Washed away and rebuilt in fact.

[bomberjet]

Fermor dumps into Riverview. Disraeli dumps into Elmwood. William Clement dumps in St. James and Charleswood.

3 that come to mind. They just kind of end and then it's residential. Then something like Chief Peguis is just one piece of what should be a network. So we use stroads like Leila or other residential streets instead.

If Winnipeg had two cross town freeways, we could stop arguing about Portage and Main. Turn Jubilee into a nice high street, etc, etc. But it never happened because Winnipeg.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Fermor dumps into Riverview. Disraeli dumps into Elmwood. William Clement dumps in St. James and Charleswood.

3 that come to mind. They just kind of end and then it's residential. Then something like Chief Peguis is just one piece of what should be a network. So we use stroads like Leila or other residential streets instead.

If Winnipeg had two cross town freeways, we could stop arguing about Portage and Main. Turn Jubilee into a nice high street, etc, etc. But it never happened because Winnipeg.

Oh I know it's such a classic winnipeg move. Start something and abandon it halfway or dont even start. Eventually you end up with a giant piecemeal system of infrastructure, half baked and utterly useless. And instead of just hitting pause and coming up with an actual plan, then we go "no wait we can save this thing" and then we do like half a task on a job and forget about it, and the original problem hasn't been remotely addressed. The whole thing lacks cohesion and ad hoc would be a generous way to describe the process.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by T'Cona

The idea of a sleek signature tower gracing the skyline from the centre of the downtown is exciting.

Covid has shown us two things: some people have discovered the appeal of working from home, and if given the choice, would not step foot in an office again (at least for now), and people love going out to eat, socialize, and enjoy entertainment and cultural attractions. Either group could find downtown an attractive place to live, and I think many people would be attracted to this potential tower.

What I would like to see is increased funding for downtown infrastructure. We can no longer tolerate crumbing curbs, streets, sidewalks, and I would also like to see new, and maintained trees, landscaping, etc. The city has a role in keeping downtown attractive to residents and visitors.

Oh, and open Portage & Main hahaha.

110 percent agreed. I think the increase in infrastructure could go a long way. Even something as simple as a "beautification movement or project" to make the city more livable, more appealing. Fix curbs. Provide funding to street development groups like Corydon Biz, Osborne Village, St James biz, etc. to increase curbside appeal, fix sidewalks. Corydon is in bad need of street scaping and stone work. It's such a beautiful street and it's totally marred by the years of aging and lack of funding put into the stone work and sidewalks.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

People love to make this claim, but can you give an actual example of a place where an expressway dumps into a residential neighbourhood at a pre-merger city boundary, in a way that could have been prevented by better planning? For the most part, the major arterial roads run seamlessly through the old city boundaries.

I don't think it's the old city boundaries that's the problem, it's the fact that Winnipeg's road network evolved in the streetcar era, when almost all travel was oriented towards downtown. Even today it's still very easy to drive to downtown from pretty much anywhere in the city, no matter how many old city boundaries you have to cross. The road network was laid out very well for what it was originally intended to do: feed streetcars into the downtown core.

Of course that same network won't work as well for crosstown trips, but that's not a failure of planning. The road network already existed long before suburb-to-suburb travel became the new reality. It's not something that could have been planned for at the time.

They were actually planning a beltway road as early as 1910. Sharp Boulevard in St. James is part of it and Inkster Boulevard was another part. The idea didn't proceed very far, as far as I know.