Sports in Canadian culture

[GernB]

Originally Posted by elly63

...Damn money grubbing conglomerates.

I think you just answered your question.

[GernB]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Here is my take on it.

I was a kid in the 70s and I loved all sports. Pro football was CFL. I lived in various places in Ontario and Atlantic Canada. I distinctly remember as a 10-year-old occasionally talking CFL with other boys in the schoolyard in the Maritimes. In my memory, things started to take off for the NFL in Canada around the mid-80s. I remember for the first time guys in my high school talking with a teacher about the Super Bowl, and Joe Theismann, Marcus Allen, etc.

To me, it's around that time that the NFL really "arrived". Almost immediately a bunch of people I knew switched the CFL off completely and only swore by the NFL from then on.

Same here. NFL wasn't a factor as I was growing up, everyone (and I mean everyone) were CFL fans and most in southern Alberta were Stamps fans. That started to change in the 1980s, which coincidentally was when the NHL arrived in Alberta , the CFL was experiencing problems getting its product on TV, and cable TV was showing up everywhere. Though there was little difference in the quality of the game, the NFL/CBS/NBC production values made the CFL/CBC/CTV's seem amateurish by comparison. I do think that this is what started the shift; broadcasters were looking for cheap programming and many people just went gaga over the flashier American productions. The CFL has never recovered its stature of those days - the league averaged almost 32,000 a game in 1983 and it seemed that the sky was the limit. There were new stadiums built or on the drawing boards league-wide. But of course all their plans went down the toilet in subsequent decades, and we now have people crowing about great sellout crowds of 24,000.

And lest anyone think it's just football that didn't fulfill its promise, remember the Expos....they were Canada's team long before the Jays. BC Place was built as much for an expected MLB franchise as for the Lions. Molson Breweries and Jim Pattison formed a partnership that came close to buying the Mariners, the As and the White Sox. Hockey? Hamilton built a new arena, and missed out on the 1992 expansion because Ottawa and Tampa Bay guaranteed the fee up front, while Ron Joyce wanted to know what indemnification Buffalo and Toronto would demand. New arenas were on the boards in Winnipeg and Quebec in the 1990s but those cities couldn't get them built. Basketball? After the triumph at the 1983 Universiade, Canada Basketball sank back into obscurity for 30 years, except for a brief moment when Steve Nash led the national team. And the Grizzlies...losing them was just a damned disgrace.

CIAU/CIS sports....same sorry tale. Universities dropping their football programs, TV networks making little or no effort to build the product, and here we sit, flooded with US sports, and with far too little of our own.

Sorry for the rant.

[GernB]

Originally Posted by JHikka

"Viewership of NBA games in Canada has doubled on average across all networks since 2012-13 — an average of 54 per cent per season, The Canadian Press reported.

The Raptors' own TV ratings have also more doubled over five years, from 108,000 in 2010-11 to 246,000 in 2014-15. Ratings have gone down to 217,000 in 2015-16, but end-of-season audiences should drive that number up, according to the Raptors' broadcast department. "

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/basket...bers-1.3438486

TSN and Rogers have really pushed it. They have a slick production with Devlin/Armstrong/Rautins and AFAIK every game is televised. The only drawback is they use Rod Black on some games.

Having a contender with two legitimate stars and a Canadian who makes a solid contribution doesn't hurt either.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GernB

the CFL was experiencing problems getting its product on TV, and cable TV was showing up everywhere. Though there was little difference in the quality of the game, the NFL/CBS/NBC production values made the CFL/CBC/CTV's seem amateurish by comparison. I do think that this is what started the shift; broadcasters were looking for cheap programming and many people just went gaga over the flashier American productions. .

In the 1980s the NFL made itself into the ultimate TV sports property. It eventually would leave baseball in the dust to become by far the most popular sports league in the U.S.

Many Canadians were hooked as well.

[Acajack]

I also remember as a kid that it was a really big deal in Toronto and the surrounding area in the early 1980s, that the Argos were actually a good, competitive team.

I think they had totally sucked for the previous couple of decades, and all of sudden they were winning and had a chance at taking the Grey Cup.

(The Blue Jays were not very good and were still fairly new at the time, and the Leafs I suspect, well they were the Leafs...)

And so there was a huge buzz about the Argos. I wasn't in Toronto but I was close enough to the city's orbit to take notice and there were lots of Argos fans whooping it up.

What's astonishing is how quickly it crashed just a few years later - literally, by the late 80s a great CFL "tune out" had occurred with many sports fans.

I never liked the Argos, and one of my neighbours was from Toronto and a pretty big Argos fan (he had a double blue tuque) and I used to raz him when they lost, but one day he showed up in a Washington Redskins tuque and when I next razzed him about an Argos loss, he said he didn't care if they won or lost anymore. And that he was into "American ball" now.

And this wasn't a teeny-bopper ditching Lady Gaga for Taylor Swift. He was a middle-aged man of about 40. High school teacher. Wife and kids. Etc.

There definitely was something going on.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

(The Blue Jays were not very good and were still fairly new at the time, and the Leafs I suspect, well they were the Leafs...)

Though the Blue Jays were embraced by baseball fans all over southern Ontario right from Day 1, especially by the older demographic who immediately bought into the American tradition of a summer's day, some lemonade on the porch and a ball game on the radio. They forged an instant and indelible place in the sports firmament here, almost as if they'd existed since 1930. A Jays' game on the radio is one of the strongest memories of my youthful summers. You would literally hear it everywhere you went.

In retrospect it seems odd that Montreal got a pro baseball team ten years before Toronto did, even with Jackie Robinson famously having been in the minors there.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I also remember as a kid that it was a really big deal in Toronto and the surrounding area in the early 1980s, that the Argos were actually a good, competitive team.

I think they had totally sucked for the previous couple of decades, and all of sudden they were winning and had a chance at taking the Grey Cup.

(The Blue Jays were not very good and were still fairly new at the time, and the Leafs I suspect, well they were the Leafs...)

And so there was a huge buzz about the Argos. I wasn't in Toronto but I was close enough to the city's orbit to take notice and there were lots of Argos fans whooping it up.

What's astonishing is how quickly it crashed just a few years later - literally, by the late 80s a great CFL "tune out" had occurred with many sports fans.

I never liked the Argos, and one of my neighbours was from Toronto and a pretty big Argos fan (he had a double blue tuque) and I used to raz him when they lost, but one day he showed up in a Washington Redskins tuque and when I next razzed him about an Argos loss, he said he didn't care if they won or lost anymore. And that he was into "American ball" now.

And this wasn't a teeny-bopper ditching Lady Gaga for Taylor Swift. He was a middle-aged man of about 40. High school teacher. Wife and kids. Etc.

There definitely was something going on.

Yeah, it's remarkable how quickly Toronto turned as a CFL market in the early 80s. In many respects it has never really recovered since then. The Argos' attendance would have been NFL-calibre right up until the the early 80s, but then it just started to sink until they were literally playing in front of 10,000 people some nights in the mid-90s. A successful and in all likelihood very profitable team decimated over no more than a decade. Neither continued success, an at-the-time spectacular new venue, and flashy celebrity owners could bring back the Argos as a mainstream, mass-appeal team. It's a bit of a head-scratcher.

As for the prominence of the NFL in Canada, I seem to recall that it was Global (which built a network out of rebroadcasting cheap US import shows) which really was the first to push it. Combined with the usual US media tidal wave, it didn't take long to find traction here... people who wouldn't have had a hot clue as to who Walter Payton was were attending Super Bowl parties by 1996.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by JHikka

"Viewership of NBA games in Canada has doubled on average across all networks since 2012-13 — an average of 54 per cent per season, The Canadian Press reported.

The Raptors' own TV ratings have also more doubled over five years, from 108,000 in 2010-11 to 246,000 in 2014-15. Ratings have gone down to 217,000 in 2015-16, but end-of-season audiences should drive that number up, according to the Raptors' broadcast department. "

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/basket...bers-1.3438486

There's something weird going on here. How could the ratings be lower this year? They are the best they've ever been in their twenty-year history.

I know people on this board have guffawed the notion that a higher proportion of Raps fans are watching via NBA League Pass (which is what I do, I haven't had cable TV for years) or illicit online streaming services than for other sports, but it seems to me that that has to factor in somehow.

Actually, I did some internet digging, and found that Toronto is ranked 5th out of the 30 teams for the "single game" purchase option for NBA League Pass behind Golden State, LA Lakers, New York and Cleveland. That's $7 to watch just one game instead of paying the $120 for all regular season games for all teams. That's really impressive, and has got to figure in to why the Raptors TV numbers aren't as high as you might expect.

http://www.turner.com/pressroom/nba-...-start-history

I can't find any actual viewership numbers for NBA League Pass, though. I don't know if they put them out or not.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

"Viewership of NBA games in Canada has doubled on average across all networks since 2012-13 — an average of 54 per cent per season, The Canadian Press reported.

The Raptors' own TV ratings have also more doubled over five years, from 108,000 in 2010-11 to 246,000 in 2014-15. Ratings have gone down to 217,000 in 2015-16, but end-of-season audiences should drive that number up, according to the Raptors' broadcast department. "

The Great Canadian Ratings Report: U.S. college football final proves worth of CIS game
Chris Zelkovich Eh Game 12 January 2016

Here are the most-watched English-language sports events from the past weekend, according to Numeris overnight ratings:

1. NHL, Leafs-Sharks/Pens-Habs/Bruins-Sens, Saturday, CBC-Rogers: 1,600,000
2. NFL, Seahawks at Vikings, Sunday, CTV: 1,400,000
3. NFL, Steelers at Bengals, Saturday, CTV: 1,200,000
4. NFL, Chiefs at Texans, Saturday, CTV: 1,000,000
5. NFL, Packers at Redskins, Sunday, CTV: 693,000
6. NHL, Lightning at Canucks, Saturday, CBC: 606,000
7. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins men's final, Sunday, TSN: 511,000
8. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins women's final, Sunday, TSN: 400,000
9. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins women's semifinal 2, Saturday, TSN: 368,000
10. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins men's semifinal 1, Saturday, TSN: 329,000
11. NHL, Capitals at Rangers, Saturday, Sportsnet: 273,000
12. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins women's semifinal 1, Friday, TSN: 270,000
13. NHL, Senators at Capitals, Sunday, Sportsnet: 261,000
14. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins men's semifinal 2, Saturday, TSN: 244,000
15. NHL, Lightning at Oilers, Friday, Sportsnet West: 227,000
16. NHL, Panthers at Oilers, Sunday, Sportsnet: 180,000
17. NHL, Blues at Ducks, Friday, Sportsnet: 145,000
18. NBA, Raptors at 76ers, Saturday, TSN: 131,000

[Acajack]

........

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Though the Blue Jays were embraced by baseball fans all over southern Ontario right from Day 1, especially by the older demographic who immediately bought into the American tradition of a summer's day, some lemonade on the porch and a ball game on the radio. They forged an instant and indelible place in the sports firmament here, almost as if they'd existed since 1930. A Jays' game on the radio is one of the strongest memories of my youthful summers. You would literally hear it everywhere you went.
.

You're right, but it took some time before the Blue Jays effectively squeezed the Argos out of the collective mindspace. That wasn't accomplished yet in the early to mid-80s.

It seems like there was space for everyone back in those days.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by elly63

The Great Canadian Ratings Report: U.S. college football final proves worth of CIS game
Chris Zelkovich Eh Game 12 January 2016

Here are the most-watched English-language sports events from the past weekend, according to Numeris overnight ratings:

18. NBA, Raptors at 76ers, Saturday, TSN: 131,000

That's not really representative of the Raptors audience. That particular game was broadcast head-to-head with both the Leafs and the NFL playoffs, both of which are indisputably more popular. Not to mention that the 76ers barely qualify as an NBA team.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by GernB

TSN and Rogers have really pushed it. They have a slick production with Devlin/Armstrong/Rautins and AFAIK every game is televised. The only drawback is they use Rod Black on some games.

Jack Armstrong is a god damn national treasure...even if he's from Brooklyn.

Originally Posted by rousseau

There's something weird going on here. How could the ratings be lower this year? They are the best they've ever been in their twenty-year history.

Their viewership will go up as the season winds down and the playoffs approach. In 2001 the Raps were getting triple the current audience with Carter when they were making their playoff push. With the Leafs tanking I imagine the Raps are going to have very strong TV numbers in the playoffs.

Originally Posted by elly63

1. NHL, Leafs-Sharks/Pens-Habs/Bruins-Sens, Saturday, CBC-Rogers: 1,600,000
2. NFL, Seahawks at Vikings, Sunday, CTV: 1,400,000
3. NFL, Steelers at Bengals, Saturday, CTV: 1,200,000
4. NFL, Chiefs at Texans, Saturday, CTV: 1,000,000
5. NFL, Packers at Redskins, Sunday, CTV: 693,000
6. NHL, Lightning at Canucks, Saturday, CBC: 606,000
7. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins men's final, Sunday, TSN: 511,000
8. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins women's final, Sunday, TSN: 400,000
9. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins women's semifinal 2, Saturday, TSN: 368,000
10. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins men's semifinal 1, Saturday, TSN: 329,000
11. NHL, Capitals at Rangers, Saturday, Sportsnet: 273,000
12. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins women's semifinal 1, Friday, TSN: 270,000
13. NHL, Senators at Capitals, Sunday, Sportsnet: 261,000
14. Curling, Pinty's all-star skins men's semifinal 2, Saturday, TSN: 244,000
15. NHL, Lightning at Oilers, Friday, Sportsnet West: 227,000
16. NHL, Panthers at Oilers, Sunday, Sportsnet: 180,000
17. NHL, Blues at Ducks, Friday, Sportsnet: 145,000
18. NBA, Raptors at 76ers, Saturday, TSN: 131,000

So what we can learn from this is that Canada is super old and super white, judging from these curling numbers.

The 76ers are a D league team and they went head-to-head against the Leafs. Of course they only drew 130K.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

So what we can learn from this is that Canada is super old and super white, judging from these curling numbers.

Although looking at it from another angle, it does put the recent Raptors hype in perspective when even a provincial men's curling event crushes a typical Raptors game in the ratings:

Sportsnet has begun investing heavily into the sport, with an expanded schedule of events that will, in two seasons, include $2.5-million in prize money. The network broadcast provincial tournament finals again this year, with Moore saying the Manitoba men drew an average audience of nearly 400,000 viewers.

“And that’s better than most Raptors games, it’s better than Premier League soccer,” he said. “It’s in line with NASCAR. It’s better than tennis.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/...ugh-of-curling

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

Although looking at it from another angle, it does put the recent Raptors hype in perspective when even a provincial men's curling event crushes a typical Raptors game in the ratings:

These curling numbers are going to continue to be strong until the boomers are gone, too. I'll be interested to see how the Brier stacks up against the NHL in March...i'm guessing well given the state of Canadian hockey teams right now.

Do we have any numbers on the Sportsnet Friday night CHL games?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

These curling numbers are going to continue to be strong until the boomers are gone, too.

When they die off, there will be another crop of middle aged and old people to replace them. As far as I can tell, curling is a bit like golf in that regard.

I'm not much of a curling fan but I have to say that curling makes for a really good televised sport.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

There's something weird going on here. How could the ratings be lower this year? They are the best they've ever been in their twenty-year history.

I know people on this board have guffawed the notion that a higher proportion of Raps fans are watching via NBA League Pass (which is what I do, I haven't had cable TV for years) or illicit online streaming services than for other sports, but it seems to me that that has to factor in somehow.

Actually, I did some internet digging, and found that Toronto is ranked 5th out of the 30 teams for the "single game" purchase option for NBA League Pass behind Golden State, LA Lakers, New York and Cleveland. That's $7 to watch just one game instead of paying the $120 for all regular season games for all teams. That's really impressive, and has got to figure in to why the Raptors TV numbers aren't as high as you might expect.

http://www.turner.com/pressroom/nba-...-start-history

I can't find any actual viewership numbers for NBA League Pass, though. I don't know if they put them out or not.

I had a look around for local NBA TV ratings. Good ratings for the Chicago Bulls in their local market are 200k. Awesome ratings for the Bulls (regular season) are 250k.

The Raptors are a different beast. Their "local" TV is in fact national and encompasses a lot more than the GTA. Obviously most of their viewers are in the GTA and environs, but they do get some gravy from Kamloops, Kenora and Halifax, that the Bulls or other NBA teams don't get.

That said, Chicago is a bigger basketball hotbed that anywhere in Canada including Toronto.

If they get 200-250k and that is considered great, I doubt the Raptors are getting 300-350k even combining cable TV and online.

Especially when you look at polls (quoted on here numerous times) on who follows what league showing NBA and MLS quite low in Ontario and even Toronto compared to NHL, MLB and even the CFL.

Of course, we all saw the impressive crowds at Maple Leaf Square during the Raptors playoff run, but somehow I doubt many of the teenage girls doing selfies in the crowd are true NBA fans that now regularly tune in to mid-week games in January between the Raptors and 76ers...

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If they get 200-250k and that is considered great, I doubt the Raptors are getting 300-350k even combining cable TV and online.

"But these numbers still do not approach the Vince Carter era, when the team averaged 713,000 viewers on CTV in 2001."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/basket...bers-1.3438486

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

So what we can learn from this is that Canada is super old and super white, judging from these curling numbers.

Curling fans and curlers are old and white, there is no youth involved, when these old ladys (below) die off so will the game and basketball and soccer will take over like they have for the last 40 years.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by elly63

Curling fans and curlers are old and white, there is no youth involved, when these old ladys (below) die off so will the game and basketball and soccer will take over like they have for the last 40 years.

Yet all of your pictures are from the World Championships and Olympics, not Provincial Championships...What's better is the fact that none of the pictures you posted are of Canadians. Excellent.

I was speaking purely of the television viewing audience, not the players themselves.