CHICAGO | Boom rundown - everything over 12 floors. v5

[Nowhereman1280]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I've never noticed many traffic problems in Streeterville and I live right across Michigan from there. Are you talking about circulation problems? I can see that, its horribly inefficient (unless you are on bike), but there isn't all that much in the form of traffic backups from what I've seen.

[cbotnyse]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Correct me if I am wrong, but I've never noticed many traffic problems in Streeterville and I live right across Michigan from there. Are you talking about circulation problems? I can see that, its horribly inefficient (unless you are on bike), but there isn't all that much in the form of traffic backups from what I've seen.

I have not either. I've lived here for 3 years with a car.

[forumly_chgoman]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

The problem I see is that Streeterville's street network is just inadequate for this kind of density. It was marginally adequate for a scattering of mansions and warehouses, but it's just overwhelmed by a major medical center, big hotels, and tall office buildings.

Largely because the grid is incomplete, the NMH area is already choked with unnecessary turning movements. The Children's site actually offers one of the few chances to correct this, by pushing Mies south to Superior, where it would meet St. Clair at a dogleg intersection. Of course, no one is talking about such a rational thing, because we don't do any sort of planning in this town. We just wait for developers to propose things and then make them hire consultants to produce a report saying there will be no traffic impact.

In the case of Children's, they know they need many hundreds of parking spaces (1100, I think). But their "plan" is to displace the nonhospital parkers from the NMH garages, and somehow make up the 1100 spaces somewhere down the road in some unspecified manner.

I have never had more than minor annoyances driving in streeterville....the traffic simply is not that bad at all

[Sir Isaac Newton]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Correct me if I am wrong, but I've never noticed many traffic problems in Streeterville and I live right across Michigan from there. Are you talking about circulation problems? I can see that, its horribly inefficient (unless you are on bike), but there isn't all that much in the form of traffic backups from what I've seen.

While I usually don't agree with Mr. Downtown, I do think that traffic could be a mess in Streeterville, in a few years. Whenever I go to NMH, it does seem like traffic is already pretty congested in the surrounding area. There are no traffic problems to the south and west of NMH, but I do think that will change quite a bit when Streeterville adds thousands upon thousands of new residents in the next few years or so. It doesn't help that Streeterville, especially the eastern half, is not overly close to any el stops.

[Nowhereman1280]

Yeah, I'm not saying Mr. Downtown is wrong per se, I am saying that its not really "congested" right now, but more incredibly "inefficient". Like it probably takes an extra 3 minutes to get places in streeterville than it should have to, but that's not because you are sitting in traffic, but because there are certain places where there should be streets and places where streets hit dead ends, and one ways where there should be two ways, so you have to go way out of your way to get places.

However, with a few thousand additional residents and patients, this has the potential to become very congested indeed.

[Dan in Chicago]

I believe it's a myth that residential towers create traffic problems. Hospitals may be another matter, but I know in Evanston and many places people are opposing residential skyscrapers because they fear congestion. Where I live there are 18 high-rises in a 4-square-block area, and the streets are quieter than many low-rise residential areas.

I've always felt the Illinois Medical Center would be a better place for Children's Hospital, not only because it's more accessible by ambulance from more points in the area, but because it would help to create a great medical district. The Texas Medical Center in Houston is a great model for what the IMC could be... and it's Houston's 3rd skyline so you could see one of the benefits I'm thinking of . It's good to have a center downtown too, but Children's would have more room to grow out west.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Dan in Chicago

I believe it's a myth that residential towers create traffic problems. Hospitals may be another matter, but I know in Evanston and many places people are opposing residential skyscrapers because they fear congestion. Where I live there are 18 high-rises in a 4-square-block area, and the streets are quieter than many low-rise residential areas.

I've always felt the Illinois Medical Center would be a better place for Children's Hospital, not only because it's more accessible by ambulance from more points in the area, but because it would help to create a great medical district. The Texas Medical Center in Houston is a great model for what the IMC could be... and it's Houston's 3rd skyline so you could see one of the benefits I'm thinking of . It's good to have a center downtown too, but Children's would have more room to grow out west.

^ I'm hoping that this huge new influx in jobs, patients, and residents over the next several years will further strengthen the case for developing Streeterville's proposed transit line

[emathias]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ I'm hoping that this huge new influx in jobs, patients, and residents over the next several years will further strengthen the case for developing Streeterville's proposed transit line

Which proposal? I wish they'd build the original proposal from 1968 (the green routes in the map for this proposal, the CUTD.

I'm talking about the plan to route from the West Loop under Monroe to about Columbus, then splitting north with a loop around the Hancock/Watertower area, and a southern split past the Museum campus to McCormick place. Looking at that map, it's EXACTLY what we currently need and it was horribly short-sighted of Chicago not to build it then. That line would have supported the current density of skyscrapers rather well.

Hmm, Chicago and Illinois politicians being short-sighted when it comes to transit ... I'm so glad we've learned our lessons on that and now have visionary support for mass transit here in Northeast Illinois ... /sarcasm :-(

[the urban politician]

^ The Carroll Avenue transitway (perhaps with some extensions).

Anyhow, it's just a thought. I've long felt that River North/Streeterville, as the recipient of a half-century of dense highrise development (despite this occurring long after the heyday of transit), is the natural heir to the next major extension of transit infrastructure in Chicago's downtown area.

[orulz]

Originally Posted by Dan in Chicago

The Metra station absolutely needs a new entrance. On weekends and evenings, if you're coming from the NE you have to cross Michigan and Randolph (in a direction *away* from the trains) to get to the nearest entrance, because the Prudential Building is closed, the park entrance is always locked, the lower level east entrance is too far, and the lower Beaubien entrance has been bolted shut since the renovation. Anyway there is a door from the station into lower Beaubien, and I used to take that all the time. It's one of the most hidden parts of the underground labyrinth over there.

Honestly I think this belongs in the transit thread, but- I agree.

Standing the SE corner of Randolph & Michigan, you would hardly know there is a station there at all. Signage and wayfinding are terrible. A prominent, street-level entrance is sorely needed, but then again the existing entrances should be more clearly marked, too.

Originally Posted by ardecila

Re the recladding of Doral: Glad to see it happen. I notice the "Metra" sign in the rendering. Is this just speculation, or will Millennium Station finally get a dignified entrance? From what I know of Millennium Station's underground layout (admittedly, it's all based on my spatial sense and not diagrams), the lower level of Beaubien Court would come between this entrance and the station - there would need to be a connection built somehow. I need to do some exploring down there one of these days, preferably during the daytime, and flesh out my mental diagram of the area. Locked doors turn the lower levels of Illinois Center into a land of cul-de-sacs much worse than anything in suburbia.

When you go down there to flesh out your mental diagram of the area, if you could somehow put that onto paper and share it, including all the entrances to Millennium Station from nearby buildings, the pedway, the park, and from the street, that would be awesome... I've looked for such a map online on several occasions and never found one.

[dboggie]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Yeah, I'm not saying Mr. Downtown is wrong per se, I am saying that its not really "congested" right now, but more incredibly "inefficient". Like it probably takes an extra 3 minutes to get places in streeterville than it should have to, but that's not because you are sitting in traffic, but because there are certain places where there should be streets and places where streets hit dead ends, and one ways where there should be two ways, so you have to go way out of your way to get places.

However, with a few thousand additional residents and patients, this has the potential to become very congested indeed.

Well, I have worked at NWU (Superior and Fairbanks) for almost 5 years, and Fairbanks has definitely gotten more congested, especially around the rush hours. In just the past 2 years, they have added traffic lights at Superior and Huron along Fairbanks (stop signs before). That has definitely help mask the traffic as it improves flow, but sometimes I think of how awful it would be if it were still just stop signs.

And I totally agree about driving out of your way to get places. Getting to the new Prentice hospital if you get off LSD at Chicago is a huge pain, you now have to drive 3-4 extra blocks to get to the driveway.

[Nowhereman1280]

50 E Chestnut is currently being painted. It looks ok, but i would have preferred no paint. Someone with a camera should go take some pictures. I would, but I don't have a camera right now.

[Chicago Shawn]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Correct me if I am wrong, but I've never noticed many traffic problems in Streeterville and I live right across Michigan from there. Are you talking about circulation problems? I can see that, its horribly inefficient (unless you are on bike), but there isn't all that much in the form of traffic backups from what I've seen.

There is no traffic problem. There is some congestion in the NWU campus, but that is because 6 lanes of Columbus compress into the 2 lanes of Fairbanks, with multiple buses stopping at each cross street. St. Clair is not really a picnic either, but it is also a two-way narrow two lane street with valets letting cars stand by the curbside.

I recently saw the results of a traffic study in southern Streterville, which conluded very positive results. LOS (level of service ratings) were all A's and B's, except for Columbus and Illinois which was LOS-C+ for Am peak, and LOS-C for PM peak. LOS-C and LOS-D is desirable for urban areas during peak rush hour. A in the same time frame means your intersection and/or road network is overbuilt and has plenty of ample capacity for additional growth. LOS-E is heavy congestion and LOS-F is failure with delay in excess of 85 seconds.

The Children's Hospital wants approval now for the hospital structure. They will be building a new garage elseware in the NWU campus, but the hospital takes 4 years to construct, whereas a new garage takes about 16-18 months. The plan was to aprove the hospital now and worry about a parking location after hospital construction begins. I see though that Reilly will not that come to pass, I see this as a way to apease bitchy constituants who know the hospital is comming no matter what. I speculate the garage will come to McClurg and Ontario, where an abondoned hospital 3 story building is on its way down.

Streeterville does need a subway. Its too isolated for its density not to have any rapid transit and most of the bus routes that serve streerville during the week are on the choping block should the CTA not receive any additional subsidy.

[honte]

^ Reily should push them to pursue smarter growth strategies, and build the new garage integral to the new hospital structure. This is the part of the planning over there that could use a little community "input." NW's land use is rather disgusting, if you ask me, with garages all over the place that should have been built into the new hospital facilities, and nearly 1/4 of Streeterville land now devoted to their mid-rise buildings.

I cannot come up with any reasonable reason why the hospital cannot sit atop a parking structure that is attractively integrated into the building. It all seems motivated by "view preservation" from the community groups, and penny pinching by NW. In the long-term, this is a kind of land-banking that I suppose is a strategy to allow them to expand in the future, but the consequences of this are immediate and will last indefinitely.

[rds989]

Has Trio stalled? I don't see the tower rising as I walk down Adams from my parking space west of the Kennedy to my office at 111 S. Wacker, and the most recent construction photo on emporis is from March. I don't get a chance to go over that way much so for all I know the whole site is just sitting idle.

[honte]

Nov. 09, 2007

Beitler's plan for Edgewater high-rise collapsing
By Thomas A. Corfman


(Crain’s) — A deal between developer J. Paul Beitler and St. Andrews’s Greek Orthodox Chicago to developer a condominium high-rise on a site adjacent to the Edgewater church is falling apart, nine months after the collapse of another transaction with a different developer on the same site.

...

http://chicagorealestatedaily.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=27077

[firstcranialnerve]

Originally Posted by Dan in Chicago

I believe it's a myth that residential towers create traffic problems. Hospitals may be another matter, but I know in Evanston and many places people are opposing residential skyscrapers because they fear congestion. Where I live there are 18 high-rises in a 4-square-block area, and the streets are quieter than many low-rise residential areas.

I've always felt the Illinois Medical Center would be a better place for Children's Hospital, not only because it's more accessible by ambulance from more points in the area, but because it would help to create a great medical district. The Texas Medical Center in Houston is a great model for what the IMC could be... and it's Houston's 3rd skyline so you could see one of the benefits I'm thinking of . It's good to have a center downtown too, but Children's would have more room to grow out west.

Yes! I totally agree, Childrens should be in the IMD. Rush Pres. rates far higher than NW in most medical disciplines except say womens health and some subspecialties, which is important i know, but I still think Rush + Univ. of Illinois hospital would be a far better pairing than just NW. Rush and UofI have proposed to expand and transform at a cost of about 1.5 billion,although UofI has a far poorer financial situation than NW. Anyway, the ties to NW are strong and the IMD option won't happen, but i'm surprised it hasn'tbeen pushed.

[SolarWind]

Originally Posted by rds989

Has Trio stalled? I don't see the tower rising as I walk down Adams from my parking space west of the Kennedy to my office at 111 S. Wacker, and the most recent construction photo on emporis is from March. I don't get a chance to go over that way much so for all I know the whole site is just sitting idle.

It is still under construction. Here's a picture I posted back in early October. Sorry, I don't have a more current one.

Trio

[Dan in Chicago]

Heights!!!

Superior 110:
308'-0" architectural
304'-0" roof

Dana Hotel:
272'-11" architectural
265'-7" roof

Staybridge Suites:
182'-9" architectural
180'-0" roof

All are taken from blueprints and measured to the top of the parapet on the mechanical penthouse. The Dana Hotel topped out last Tuesday.

[i_am_hydrogen]

^Thanks, Dan. I can't believe Dana is already topped out.