Metro Phoenix Aviation Thread

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by BA744PHX

Right now Lufthansa is having a fleet shortage due to B787 Allegris delays for FRA and slowly A359's are coming online for MUC base.

It would be nice to see Lufthansa or Discover, but that's likely 2026 at the earliest, but who knows what may happen after this announcement.

Right! Due to aircraft shortage. Right now they don’t have any planes to fly. I believe Lufthansa will takeover by replacing Condor. As far as I know they will delivered a new aircraft to come online. So yes, I think they will add nonstop flights to PHX sometime in a few years or so.

[muertecaza]

https://www.abc15.com/news/business/phoenix-sky-harbor-airport-breaks-passenger-record-in-2024

The latest report from the Phoenix Aviation Department shows that Sky Harbor ended the calendar year with a total of 52,325,266 passengers who traveled through the Valley airport’s terminals – the most ever in a single year.

The 52.3 million passengers in 2024 represented a hefty increase of 7.5% from the 48.9 million passengers in 2023, which was the previous record. Sky Harbor notched a new monthly total passenger record for every month in 2024.

[ASU Diablo]

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...on-new-phoenix-sky-harbor-concourse.html

Construction has started on the new North 2 Concourse in Terminal 3 at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.

McCarthy Building Companies Inc., the general contractor on the $326 million project, will first demolish an existing annex building. That will enable facility construction to begin this month.

The new concourse will be located on the north side of Terminal 3 at the airport owned by the city of Phoenix.

The 173,000-square-foot concourse will have a multi-level design that will include six gates, restrooms and space for future retail. The upper mezzanine level will include a lounge, back-of-house areas and an exterior terrace. There will also be an apron level that will be used to accommodate aircraft service and provide essential support spaces.

Terminal 3, which is home to major airlines at Sky Harbor including Delta Air Lines, United Airlines and Frontier Airlines, accounted for about 25% of Sky Harbor’s total passenger count in 2024. During peak periods, the existing gates at Terminal 3 often reached full capacity.

“With the growth in our passenger traffic, we’re continuing to make investments in our facilities so we can not only meet demand, but further elevate the passenger experience,” Chad Makovsky, Phoenix’s aviation director, said in a statement. “Our new six gate concourse will provide airlines with more space to do business and also provide us with an opportunity to add new passenger services such as additional concessions and an inviting lounge featuring stunning views and premium amenities.”

The addition of six new gates brings Terminal 3 to 26 total gates.

Future Sky Harbor growth plans include new terminal
The project will also set the stage to connect Terminals 3 and 4. Sky Harbor has set in place long-term plans that include not just building new concourses at Terminal 3 but building a whole new terminal at the airport. That process will take more than a decade to complete.

The construction of the new concourse is not expected to cause any major disruptions to other operations at Sky Harbor.

“Our McCarthy teams are well versed in managing construction projects at active airports, having successfully completed several expansion projects at Sky Harbor and other airports previously,” Thomas Assante, vice president of operations for McCarthy’s Southwest Region, said in a statement. “Every portion of the new Terminal 3 concourse will provide an exceptional experience for Sky Harbor passengers.”

The new concourse was designed by HOK in collaboration with DFDG Architecture. The project is pursuing a minimum of LEED Silver certification through the U.S. Green Building Council.

The project is expected to be completed in 2027.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...on-new-phoenix-sky-harbor-concourse.html

Seems like they could have added more than six gates by adding some on the east side of the wing?

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

Seems like they could have added more than six gates by adding some on the east side of the wing?

It looks like there is a taxiway too close on the east side to allow for that, and that taxiway can't easily be moved because it involves a bridge over Sky Harbor Boulevard.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Hxz4Wai2HjPaKHbQ7

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

It looks like there is a taxiway too close on the east side to allow for that, and that taxiway can't easily be moved because it involves a bridge over Sky Harbor Boulevard.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Hxz4Wai2HjPaKHbQ7

Are they going to be demolished the Annex building or near sorting facility? I am not sure what they going do with it.

Do you know when they will be completed the T3 North concourse 2?

[phoenixwillrise]

I meant to say connecting as the headline. It will be interesting to see how and where they connect terminal 3 to 4. Either they have to go sky high to go over that taxiway or under it, (my guess as to what they will do), that taxiway. I have not seen any drawing on that yet.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

It looks like there is a taxiway too close on the east side to allow for that, and that taxiway can't easily be moved because it involves a bridge over Sky Harbor Boulevard.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Hxz4Wai2HjPaKHbQ7

Or they could of had the wing slightly west, seems like enough room comparing it to terminal four. I’m guess there’s a lot of room in the east side of the wing for restaurants. Also, so connecting term 3 to 4? It’s already connected with the sky train. Wouldn’t adding anything else be a bit of a waste? There isn’t a lot of people with connecting flights that have to go from term 3 to 4 anyway.

[phoenixwillrise]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

Or they could of had the wing slightly west, seems like enough room comparing it to terminal four. I’m guess there’s a lot of room in the east side of the wing for restaurants. Also, so connecting term 3 to 4? It’s already connected with the sky train. Wouldn’t adding anything else be a bit of a waste? There isn’t a lot of people with connecting flights that have to go from term 3 to 4 anyway.

Be a lot easier to walk between the two rather then going up the elevator and then onto the Sky Train, unless you have to retrieve luggage. They have mentioned several times that they are building a walkway to connect the two just not sure if its going over or under.

[RichTempe]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

Or they could of had the wing slightly west, seems like enough room comparing it to terminal four. I’m guess there’s a lot of room in the east side of the wing for restaurants. Also, so connecting term 3 to 4? It’s already connected with the sky train. Wouldn’t adding anything else be a bit of a waste? There isn’t a lot of people with connecting flights that have to go from term 3 to 4 anyway.

They're doing it so people won't have to leave the secured area in order to go from one terminal to the other. Right now you have to go out of security, take the train and then go back through security if you're making a connection in the other terminal.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by RichTempe

They're doing it so people won't have to leave the secured area in order to go from one terminal to the other. Right now you have to go out of security, take the train and then go back through security if you're making a connection in the other terminal.

Right! They don't have to leave from the secured area. Just stay in the security. No need to re-clear TSA checkpoints again. Go to under the tunnel from T4 to T3. It will connector the terminals.

[TllrSkyline-01]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

Or they could of had the wing slightly west, seems like enough room comparing it to terminal four. I’m guess there’s a lot of room in the east side of the wing for restaurants. Also, so connecting term 3 to 4? It’s already connected with the sky train. Wouldn’t adding anything else be a bit of a waste? There isn’t a lot of people with connecting flights that have to go from term 3 to 4 anyway.

I agree - it is a waste. Right now you still have to go out and back into secured
areas between south and north curb gates on both T3 and T4 anyway. This T3-T4 connection should be of least importance.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by TllrSkyline-01

This T3-T4 connection should be of least importance.

Connections between two different airlines are rare. The main exception is people who might be combining a domestic segment with an international one. Since Phoenix doesn't have a lot of international traffic, I would guess that's a relatively small number. Unless there are some compelling statistics I'm not aware of, I would agree that a post-security connection between terminals is a low priority.

[halicem]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Connections between two different airlines are rare. The main exception is people who might be combining a domestic segment with an international one. Since Phoenix doesn't have a lot of international traffic, I would guess that's a relatively small number. Unless there are some compelling statistics I'm not aware of, I would agree that a post-security connection between terminals is a low priority.

Yeah, even domestic <> international one is rare since we're just spokes for both United & Delta in terminal 3 and they wouldn't route passengers our way for transit with Air France/British Airways/Condor/WestJet regularly... Leisure travelers with mixed airlines will probably have checked luggage anyway so they still gotta leave security.

The other use-case is group travelers, as a destination airport, whether leisure or for conferences, having a connection makes it easier for groups to get inside security, stay longer by going in earlier, and end up spending more money in the airport. You could continue drinking inside instead of saying your goodbyes and splitting up cause some folks wanna get through TSA already.

[combusean]

I don't know what the walkway costs but the notion seems small compared to their overall expansion projects and will help make the airport overall more friendly which is what it very much tries to compete on (it's in the name). Could definitely see a use case for any group of 2 or more.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by halicem

The other use-case is group travelers, as a destination airport, whether leisure or for conferences, having a connection makes it easier for groups to get inside security, stay longer by going in earlier, and end up spending more money in the airport. You could continue drinking inside instead of saying your goodbyes and splitting up cause some folks wanna get through TSA already.

I've attended many conferences over the past few decades, and I can't say I've ever done this. If I've enjoyed spending time with colleagues from elsewhere, we usually say our goodbyes as we leave the conference venue. If some of us are leaving around the same time, we might coordinate transportation, but it would never occur to me to try to map out the logistics of who is leaving from which terminal via which airline in an effort to spend time together at the airport. Usually, everyone just wants to spend as little time at the airport as possible and just get home.

Originally Posted by combusean

I don't know what the walkway costs but the notion seems small compared to their overall expansion projects and will help make the airport overall more friendly which is what it very much tries to compete on (it's in the name). Could definitely see a use case for any group of 2 or more.

If Sky Harbor really want to live up to its silly slogan, "America's Friendliest Airport," the money could be better spent on other projects. I can think of a few:

-- More intuitive and welcoming signs everywhere
-- Redesigning some of its roads to be less confusing
-- Renovating Terminal 4 to put more of its retail space behind security
-- A better international arrivals experience

[halicem]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I've attended many conferences over the past few decades, and I can't say I've ever done this. If I've enjoyed spending time with colleagues from elsewhere, we usually say our goodbyes as we leave the conference venue. If some of us are leaving around the same time, we might coordinate transportation, but it would never occur to me to try to map out the logistics of who is leaving from which terminal via which airline in an effort to spend time together at the airport. Usually, everyone just wants to spend as little time at the airport as possible and just get home.

Well from personal experience myself... Pre-pandemic, yeah I just wanted to go home... We're all even getting shuffled to the same flight anyway and I'll see them Monday in the office so it doesn't matter. Heck we won't even exchange words anymore and we're sat next to each other, just a grunt as we part ways as we head to our own cars in the economy parking lot.

Post-pandemic, hybrid workplace with coworkers from all around the country, I talk to some of these people everyday and we only see each other once maybe twice a year -- definitely wanna spend more time with them. And... SFO was a more enjoyable experience over NYC (extra exacerbated by the 3 airports!). Also typically last hurrah to use up per diem.

I think this is more of an airport trend. Same way there's a swing to have more local establishments in terminals.. I'd wager they appeal more to occasional travelers vs road-warriors/consultant life who prefer consistency instead of exploring local options (they already have the lounge, or spend as little time in the airport, or if they must, grab from a go-to nationwide chain).

Anyway, I don't care strongly about this connector project for sky harbor since I personally probably wouldn't use it... But I definitely find them convenient and use them in other airports!

[combusean]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I've attended many conferences over the past few decades, and I can't say I've ever done this. If I've enjoyed spending time with colleagues from elsewhere, we usually say our goodbyes as we leave the conference venue. If some of us are leaving around the same time, we might coordinate transportation, but it would never occur to me to try to map out the logistics of who is leaving from which terminal via which airline in an effort to spend time together at the airport. Usually, everyone just wants to spend as little time at the airport as possible and just get home.



If Sky Harbor really want to live up to its silly slogan, "America's Friendliest Airport," the money could be better spent on other projects. I can think of a few:

-- More intuitive and welcoming signs everywhere
-- Redesigning some of its roads to be less confusing
-- Renovating Terminal 4 to put more of its retail space behind security
-- A better international arrivals experience

It's not a silly slogan when travelers consistently rank it as one of if not the best airports in the US to fly out of.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

It's not a silly slogan when travelers consistently rank it as one of if not the best airports in the US to fly out of.

"Best" doesn't necessarily mean "friendliest." Sky Harbor is more functional and efficient than many U.S. airports, but any airport that calls itself "friendly" is setting itself up for failure. All it takes is one unpleasant experience with the TSA or CBP, two entities that are not under the airport's control, to create a negative impression. Of course, there are matters under the airport's control which could be much friendlier. If I were the king of Sky Harbor, I'd start with better signs and go from there.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Connections between two different airlines are rare. The main exception is people who might be combining a domestic segment with an international one. Since Phoenix doesn't have a lot of international traffic, I would guess that's a relatively small number. Unless there are some compelling statistics I'm not aware of, I would agree that a post-security connection between terminals is a low priority.

I thought I remember reading about this before where the plan was to add this concourse to T3 - move some AA flights there (with the connector between terminals) and then close the B concourse and upgrade it for larger planes (more international). Then the West Terminal construction phase I would start.