Austin | Q2 Stadium (Austin FC) | Complete

[KevinFromTexas]

I don't know. All that foot traffic on the hike & bike trail sounds awful. The purpose of the trail is recreation, not transportation. That's why people are throwing scooters into the river. That plan sounds like dumping a problem (lack of transportation) onto something else that has performed beautifully for generations and that has set Austin apart from the rest of Texas' cities. Again, what it comes down to is needing transportation in place that is designed to be transportation, not something else. The idea of a stadium at Zilker is horrible. There isn't really any transportation along Barton Springs that could handle that kind of capacity. They would pretty much have to close the street the way they do during Blues on the Green and the Trail of Lights, to say nothing of building a stadium in the park.

As for structured musical venues, sitting in a seat listening to music is a lame way of enjoying music. Austinites prefer enjoying it outdoors. And I mean, really outdoors, not just in some open-air stadium or arena either.

atxsnail]
Sports stadiums have a very poor track record in spurring useful development or transit options. MLS has multiple examples of stadiums that failed to deliver on hoped-for economic development.

Well, that sounds like a good reason not to build them then. If they're only a capitalist endeavor but aren't spurring more development to boost the neighborhood, presumably because once the game ends, everyone leaves without spending any more time or money there, then where's the capital going? I'm assuming the team owners are walking away with a profit while the neighborhood gets to enjoy the traffic.

Anyway, I still say that people will simply drive to the sports venue and then get back in their car and drive home. Undoubtedly, if you were to build a stadium near I-35, that would be the main way people would get there. If you built it near Mopac, that would be the way they'd get home. There pretty much isn't a single sports venue in Texas that isn't surrounded by acres of parking or adjacent to either an interstate or very near one.

[antny12]

The heb center in cedar park is an awesome venue.. we have season tickets to the Texas stars and have seen a handful of concerts, the rodeo, and Disney on Ice. Granted it’s minor league, but regardless these developments can be successful in suburban settings. Professional teams tend to want to be centrally located to be equally as accessible to the entire metro.

[ATXboom]

Originally Posted by antny12

The heb center in cedar park is an awesome venue.. we have season tickets to the Texas stars and have seen a handful of concerts, the rodeo, and Disney on Ice. Granted it’s minor league, but regardless these developments can be successful in suburban settings. Professional teams tend to want to be centrally located to be equally as accessible to the entire metro.

That is a really nice arena for its size.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

I don't know. All that foot traffic on the hike & bike trail sounds awful. The purpose of the trail is recreation, not transportation. That's why people are throwing scooters into the river. That plan sounds like dumping a problem (lack of transportation) onto something else that has performed beautifully for generations and that has set Austin apart from the rest of Texas' cities. Again, what it comes down to is needing transportation in place that is designed to be transportation, not something else. The idea of a stadium at Zilker is horrible. There isn't really any transportation along Barton Springs that could handle that kind of capacity. They would pretty much have to close the street the way they do during Blues on the Green and the Trail of Lights, to say nothing of building a stadium in the park.

As for structured musical venues, sitting in a seat listening to music is a lame way of enjoying music. Austinites prefer enjoying it outdoors. And I mean, really outdoors, not just in some open-air stadium or arena either.



Well, that sounds like a good reason not to build them then. If they're only a capitalist endeavor but aren't spurring more development to boost the neighborhood, presumably because once the game ends, everyone leaves without spending any more time or money there, then where's the capital going? I'm assuming the team owners are walking away with a profit while the neighborhood gets to enjoy the traffic.

Anyway, I still say that people will simply drive to the sports venue and then get back in their car and drive home. Undoubtedly, if you were to build a stadium near I-35, that would be the main way people would get there. If you built it near Mopac, that would be the way they'd get home. There pretty much isn't a single sports venue in Texas that isn't surrounded by acres of parking or adjacent to either an interstate or very near one.

Right, but people drive in and drive out because there isn't anything to do in the area.

Go to a Cubs game and it's *very* different. People hit up Cubby Bear or one of the other sports bars before and after games. There are tons of great food spots around the stadium that get *super* full after games are over.

I have a friend that lives in Wrigleyville and its a fun real neighborhood that comes alive during game days. Most of the London soccer stadiums are similarly well integrated into the city. A lot of European soccer stadiums in general.

The argument for the urban stadium is that people can bike or walk to the game, and then stick around for all of the awesome stuff that there is to do.

It's also kind of silly argument to say that the park is for a specific form of entertainment and not another. I use the hike and bike trail to get around town all the time. 23K people using it for like 30-45 minutes after a game 16 days out of the year isn't going to make normal use of the hike and bike trail that hard.

[lzppjb]

I would love to have a stadium on the south shore, but I think Austin will do a good job with McKalla. There's already a bunch of bars/breweries nearby. More will probably pop up with a pub/soccer tilt. Even my 42 hangout, C. Hunt's, is just down the road - a quick Uber ride away.

It's not so suburban that it'll be surrounded by nothingness. It's not Arlington or the AT&T Center in San Antonio.

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

Right, but people drive in and drive out because there isn't anything to do in the area.

Go to a Cubs game and it's *very* different. People hit up Cubby Bear or one of the other sports bars before and after games. There are tons of great food spots around the stadium that get *super* full after games are over.

I have a friend that lives in Wrigleyville and its a fun real neighborhood that comes alive during game days. Most of the London soccer stadiums are similarly well integrated into the city. A lot of European soccer stadiums in general.

The argument for the urban stadium is that people can bike or walk to the game, and then stick around for all of the awesome stuff that there is to do.

It's also kind of silly argument to say that the park is for a specific form of entertainment and not another. I use the hike and bike trail to get around town all the time. 23K people using it for like 30-45 minutes after a game 16 days out of the year isn't going to make normal use of the hike and bike trail that hard.

This is spot on, re: Wrigley. I lived on the Northside for a decade in the early 2000's and spent a lot of time there. It's an experience that a lot of Americans don't have a natural analog for -- all of our stadiums, as they are, being almost solely built out in the burbs, or in an industrial district, etc. Somewhere you, one way or another, have to commute to. But when you finally get to experience a game or a concert at Wrigley, and then walk to dinner or drinks or whatever afterwards . . . it's pretty clear how fantastic it is.

And to be honest it becomes kind of enmeshed and synonymous with what it means to experience the city for outsiders, too. The view from the stands, the bars that crop up nearby to service it all. It's an identity maker. And not to say that McKalla won't get there, because it almost certainly will. But I still feel like Butler was a major missed opportunity, a chance to not just be a sports team but to be an iconic addition to the lakefront and to the way we view ourselves (on TV, from the stands, from across the river) and to how we experience downtown.

[drummer]

Maybe we can get a soccer stadium south of the river when Austin gets its third soccer team....

[Novacek]

Okay, not really Austin/McKalla related. But I've also been following the process of the Columbus Crew stadium. Partly out of schadenfreude (after hearing way too much Austin bashing last year) and partly as an interesting compare/contrast with Austin's deal and stadium.

More details came out yesterday (the city is finally going to approve the deal probably, it's just been a memorandum of understanding so far).

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus...dium-with.html

https://www.dispatch.com/news/201906...t-yet-acquired

Confirmation that it's taking 140 million dollars in public money. For those keeping track at home, that's over $10,000 for each current Crew "attendee".

The Crew is paying $10 per year rent for both the stadium and the practice facility. Way less than Austin FC is paying the city (Austin practice facility currently unknown, but currently presumed to be privately built and taxed).

That includes a new 600 space city-built parking garage on site.


There's currently some handwaving that $25M of that is coming from a NCA on adjacent mixed use development, so it isn't _really_ public money.
Of course, that mixed use development then goes untaxed by the city for 30 years (at least in the last MOU, I haven't seen if that had changed). Austin's deal said any ancillary development on the site would be taxed normally.

All in all, I feel like Austin made out _much_ better than Columbus did. Even if their stadium is (technically) downtown (but off in a corner and really pretty inaccessible).

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by Novacek

All in all, I feel like Austin made out _much_ better than Columbus did. Even if their stadium is (technically) downtown (but off in a corner and really pretty inaccessible).

The Arena district is actually pretty dope and has good food/bars all over it. I'll give Columbus credit, their stadium location is better than Austin's. McKalla is fine and hopefully the continued explosive growth makes the area cooler after game day than present which is mostly warehouses, abandoned apartments, fast food and a discount tire company. And there is a nice outdoor mall about 15 minute walk away, and about 20 minutes further into that is an entertainment district in the mall. But hey, our Punch Bowl Social is gonna be hopping

I'm pumped for the team and the future, but McKalla isn't exactly an A+ location.

[the Genral]

As we debated before, if the stadium was built closer to downtown as originally planned, I probably wouldn't go to too many matches, the same can be said for its current location for people who live downtown and further south. But it seems that regardless, there is going to be wide spread support for this team at McKalla. Its a "Field of Dreams" scenerio.
It will be interesting to see if the Crew will attract more fans to their new stadium and location closer to their downtown, but that remains to be seen. I doubt it because after all these years they seem to have tapped into the bulk of their fan base.
Draw a 20 mile radious circle around the McKalla site and I think its safe to say there are thousands of professional soccer starved fans that will fill the stadium.
Mopac seems to be the best way to get there from north and south. I predict the Bold will fold by 2023. Their COTA venue is a strategic mistake. Maybe the 2 parties can kiss and make up and share the McKalla location like the Jets and Giants do.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

The Arena district is actually pretty dope and has good food/bars all over it. I'll give Columbus credit, their stadium location is better than Austin's. McKalla is fine and hopefully the continued explosive growth makes the area cooler after game day than present which is mostly warehouses, abandoned apartments, fast food and a discount tire company. And there is a nice outdoor mall about 15 minute walk away, and about 20 minutes further into that is an entertainment district in the mall. But hey, our Punch Bowl Social is gonna be hopping

I'm pumped for the team and the future, but McKalla isn't exactly an A+ location.

Except it's not in the (current) Arena district. It's another half mile or so down the road, under two railroad underpasses along a 1x1 road (with at least sidewalks but no bike lanes).
Post-game everyone is going to try and slog out that one way, because there's nothing in any other direction around the stadium and scant chance for much in the future (because it's so geographically isolated).

If McKalla " isn't exactly an A+ location", then "Confluence Village" is a C at best.



35 minute walk away? The aforementioned PBS is only a 17 minute walk. 20 minutes gets you to the heart of Rock Rose.

35 minutes would get you out west past 183.


And if there's abandoned apartments anywhere in North Burnet Gateway, let me know. That property is worth $.

[Syndic]

I'd much prefer McKalla's location to this:



Looks like a pretty ugly part of town to me. Also, a lot of the warehouses around McKalla are actually BREWERIES.

[myBrain]

Just chiming in -

I am less often taking out-of-town visitors to DT Austin and more often taking them to the Brewery District these days. Part of this is because, if you're from Texas at least, you're almost certainly well acquainted with 6th street and increasingly E6th, W6th, and Rainey as well.

But mostly it's because I think it's an underrated gem, and my guests are always surprised by how much is going on there and how nice and unique it is. It has a really interesting DIY kind of vibe that contrasts with how polished (and frankly, identical) most of the rest of our bar districts have become (although ABW and Uncle Billy's are much more polished). If you haven't been to 4th Tap, Fairweather Cidery, Adelbert's, or Circle, those are really neat places. And many of them are busy on the weekends, and in ABW's case have become very popular with families.

If the city doesn't squander this opportunity (big if, I know) and instead works to foster density and walkability here, this area could become something interesting and unique. Aside from more tall buildings, I don't know how much we should expect downtown to radically change. There's not going to be a new E6th or Rainey where we get a mix of big developments and interesting, small-scale, organic changes adjacent to DT, Riverside excepted. We need to be looking at these neighborhood nodes like here, Mueller/Manor, Highland, maybe way-South Congress as the next places where we define Austin's future.

[Novacek]

Even more off topic, the upcoming Austin Chronicle 5-8 Brewery Tour (nicely bracketing McKalla).

https://www.austinchronicle.com/five-8-brew-tour/

[clubtokyo]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Even more off topic, the upcoming Austin Chronicle 5-8 Brewery Tour (nicely bracketing McKalla).

https://www.austinchronicle.com/five-8-brew-tour/

This is why I think the McKalla location is perfect, so many breweries near by!

[KevinFromTexas]

To clarify, I don't really care what happens at Butler Shores where all the softball fields are over by Toomey Road since there are already a lot of them all over town. I'm good with a lateral move of softball<soccer<or whatever other types of sports venue they could think of there. I just don't want to see actual parkland, such as Butler Park located next to the Palmer Events Center, being removed for a sports venue when the park is already serving the purpose of recreation for the neighborhoods surrounding it including downtown.

I will say that I do worry about the impacts that having thousands of more people using the hike & bike trail strictly for transportation on those days would mean for the trail. My worry is that people would litter the trail\ with their cups and food wrappers and whatever else they might leave behind and it would find its way into the river and Barton Creek. Unless, of course, the sports venue is able and willing to enforce a rule of people not taking their food or drink out of the stadium. I just worry that we're dumping a problem onto the trail (lack of transportation) and will be creating another one in the process.

[Syndic]

Originally Posted by myBrain

Just chiming in -

I am less often taking out-of-town visitors to DT Austin and more often taking them to the Brewery District these days. Part of this is because, if you're from Texas at least, you're almost certainly well acquainted with 6th street and increasingly E6th, W6th, and Rainey as well.

But mostly it's because I think it's an underrated gem, and my guests are always surprised by how much is going on there and how nice and unique it is. It has a really interesting DIY kind of vibe that contrasts with how polished (and frankly, identical) most of the rest of our bar districts have become (although ABW and Uncle Billy's are much more polished). If you haven't been to 4th Tap, Fairweather Cidery, Adelbert's, or Circle, those are really neat places. And many of them are busy on the weekends, and in ABW's case have become very popular with families.

If the city doesn't squander this opportunity (big if, I know) and instead works to foster density and walkability here, this area could become something interesting and unique. Aside from more tall buildings, I don't know how much we should expect downtown to radically change. There's not going to be a new E6th or Rainey where we get a mix of big developments and interesting, small-scale, organic changes adjacent to DT, Riverside excepted. We need to be looking at these neighborhood nodes like here, Mueller/Manor, Highland, maybe way-South Congress as the next places where we define Austin's future.

Very well-put. I can easily see why people who haven't toured this area's breweries might not understand how it's actually an interesting place. I've been harping on how fascinating it is for a while now.

It feels like you've located a hidden gem when you visit each of these breweries. And long-term, there is so much development potential around there.

[lzppjb]

If that area east of McKalla becomes an entertainment district, that'd be pretty sweet. Breweries are a draw (I don't drink, but whatever). Add more restaurants. Keep most of it low-slung 1-3 stories. I think it'd be a great little area for the soccer fans.

[Novacek]

As promised, the updated schematics and such for the mobility bond improvements to Burnet are now online.

https://data.austintexas.gov/stories...dor/dghh-sspr/

It's not stated online, but in the meeting they mentioned they were going to try to get the Braker/Burnet intersection out as one of the "early out" projects. In part so that it might be ready for McKalla's opening. Though that wasn't guaranteed yet.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by myBrain

Just chiming in -

I am less often taking out-of-town visitors to DT Austin and more often taking them to the Brewery District these days. Part of this is because, if you're from Texas at least, you're almost certainly well acquainted with 6th street and increasingly E6th, W6th, and Rainey as well.

But mostly it's because I think it's an underrated gem, and my guests are always surprised by how much is going on there and how nice and unique it is. It has a really interesting DIY kind of vibe that contrasts with how polished (and frankly, identical) most of the rest of our bar districts have become (although ABW and Uncle Billy's are much more polished). If you haven't been to 4th Tap, Fairweather Cidery, Adelbert's, or Circle, those are really neat places. And many of them are busy on the weekends, and in ABW's case have become very popular with families.

If the city doesn't squander this opportunity (big if, I know) and instead works to foster density and walkability here, this area could become something interesting and unique. Aside from more tall buildings, I don't know how much we should expect downtown to radically change. There's not going to be a new E6th or Rainey where we get a mix of big developments and interesting, small-scale, organic changes adjacent to DT, Riverside excepted. We need to be looking at these neighborhood nodes like here, Mueller/Manor, Highland, maybe way-South Congress as the next places where we define Austin's future.

I don't have an issue with creating nodes but I do not agree that the city should focus those areas over Downtown which is the heart and soul of this city. We just hosted a family reunion on my dad's side, they came in from all across the country. They all stayed in the Downtown area and were amazed and impressed with the vitality of Downtown Austin. Austin's future will and should continue to be Downtown for continued health of the overall city. That is the whole point of building up the urban core.

As far as McKalla, it is what it is. I'm excited that we are at least getting a pro team however I honestly can't say that I will be planning on going to many games unless I use the Metrorail. It's not worth driving that far for me personally. Speaking of Metrorail, what is the latest on having a stop right by the stadium? I haven't really been following this thread much but noticed it was getting active so out of curiosity jumped on in.