Salt Lake MSA Development Thread

[RFPCME]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Maybe I just assumed since he was a Douche Bag that he must have been from Sandy.

Future Mayor: Now you've got it!!!!!!

[RFPCME]

Future Mayor: Sorry about the confusion. I did not want to suggest that Sandy shouldn't be allowed to change. All I wanted to say is that Sandy will never change, which is why, I guess, this whole Proscenium project is preposterous.

I look at Sandy the same way I look at career criminals...doesn't matter how much rehab they get or how many second chances, they are always going to wind up back in the slammer.

It's kind of like Afghanistan. Like it or no, that country (using the term "country" loosely) is stuck in the dark ages--repressive, largely illiterate, with women treated like livestock...Now that I think more about it, the comparison is not half-bad.

So to think that the Proscenium is going to rise out of a community-wide desire to support the arts???? Ludicrous! In fact, only in Sandy would anyone ever take that idea seriously.

[TANGELD_SLC]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I don't mind if SLC is not in the top 10. I just think the Wasatch Front should count as one MSA and SLC's population should be listed as larger than 180,000.

I certainly think it would help our fair city's image to the rest of America and the world if we WERE on the top ten. I also agree that the wasatch front should be ONE MSA. I'm not too sure about the whole Salt Lake Valley beeing incorporated with Salt Lake City, but I for sure think Millcreek and SoSaLa at least ought to be. Maybe add WVC, Murray, Midvale, Taylorsville, Holladay and West Jordan. I think the cure to fix Sandy would be to break it up... I don't like Sandy right now, frankly. If somebody was able to do all of this, I would give them my full support. Who do you talk to to get something like that done? Mayors? The Governor? Commissioners? The feds?
I would be so happy if SLC jumped to the top ten

[delts145]

Can anyone give us some kind of idea of the tax situation with So. SL and Milcreek, if they were to be incorporated into Salt Lake? Would the residents of Millcreek's property taxes and services remain steady, or would there be a spike?

I know that South Salt Lake is trying to convince Millcreek to join with them. South Salt Lake needs the posher residential, while Millcreek could use the more industrial base. Usually when residents are opposed to incorporation into another city, it's because of a raise in the cost of services/taxes.

Also, with what Stenar said regarding Salt Lake's northwest sector for big growth potential. What do the prognosticators figure the build-out population would be of that sector when it is developed?

[SLC Projects]

Not sure if this has been listed on here before by anyone but I notice a new project going on in Midvale right on 7720 South near State Street. ( It's where the old Family Dollar store was. ) On the lot is a billbroad with a rendering of the overall project that looks like it will be 4-stories of mix-use. It's called "Center Square"

Renderings









Looks like this project might have already broken ground since there is work going on on the north end of the lot.






I walked by all the store fronts and they are all closed and had moved.



Always thought I would share that with you all.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by delts145

Can anyone give us some kind of idea of the tax situation with So. SL and Milcreek, if they were to be incorporated into Salt Lake? Would the residents of Millcreek's property taxes and services remain steady, or would there be a spike?

I know that South Salt Lake is trying to convince Millcreek to join with them. South Salt Lake needs the posher residential, while Millcreek could use the more industrial base. Usually when residents are opposed to incorporation into another city, it's because of a raise in the cost of services/taxes.

I don't think Millcreek's taxes could possibly go up. They have ZERO commercial to bring in tax dollars so residents have to make up for all of that. So. Salt Lake has tons of commercial, but not as many residents. It would be a natural progression for them to incorporate into SLC. So. SL almost incorporated into SLC back in the '30s or so I read recently... maybe it was earlier than the '30s. I forget exactly.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by delts145

Also, with what Stenar said regarding Salt Lake's northwest sector for big growth potential. What do the prognosticators figure the build-out population would be of that sector when it is developed?

I was just looking all over the web and couldn't find anything definitive. One article I read said the city council wanted to develop homes for 25,000 residents there. I'm quite certain the Kennecott Land document that I saw listed 40,000 population for the NW quadrant, but I checked the Kennecott Land website and they've pulled all of their documents listing potential new development sites. I guess this is because of their spat with the county (and the downturn in housing because of the mortgage meltdown).

[delts145]

Thanks for the response Stenar. I put our posts over on the Salt Lake Thread, since it's dealing with increasing the size of SLC proper. I would really like to hear if Mayor Becker would have any opinions or interest on the issue, especially with Millcreek.

Projects, Thanks for the heads-up on Center Square. I'm glad to see another major project going up in that vicinity of Midvale. I guess we could say that this is a TOD, if we consider it to be within walking distance of the closest TRAX station. Midvale is really coming on strong with it's major development projects underway.

[delts145]

A taller Sandy: Growing skyward could shape Sandy's future

Tribune Editorial

Skyscrapers in Sandy? Why not?
City leaders are debating whether to raise the roof, literally, in Sandy's central business district by allowing buildings taller than 140 feet. If they are careful to guide development toward green building standards and walkable designs, a dense, high-rise downtown Sandy could be a good thing.
That's a big if, of course. We don't pretend to be urban planners. We only know enough to know that we don't know enough. Clearly, this is a complex undertaking.
But it seems to us that if Sandy were to develop a dense downtown core in the south end of the valley, it might provide the opportunity for a large number of people to live closer to where they work. That could reduce commuting, air pollution and fuel consumption.
Of course, retrofitting a community for smart growth isn't easy. Sandy is a classic suburban city that has grown up on the old auto-dependent model.
But Sandy also is a maturing city. A study for Envision Utah of "Wasatch Front Development Trends" shows that Sandy already is one of about six employment cores in Salt Lake County that harbor export businesses. It scores high for potential employment growth. Its major shortcoming is that it is a long way from Salt Lake City International Airport.
Might high-rise development in the central business district, defined roughly as the area from I-15 to State
Street between 9800 South and 10600 South, exacerbate traffic congestion? That would depend upon how the development was designed. If it were walkable, attractive to the eye and served by convenient mass transit, it might work just fine, perhaps better than the status quo. If it were not planned with smart growth principles in mind, it could be a mess.
From what we can gather, the City Council and planning commission are trying to figure out ways to encourage potential developers to follow smart growth and green building principles in exchange for the opportunity to build taller buildings.
Within the central business district, The Proscenium, a proposed $560 million mixed-use project that would include a theater for touring Broadway shows, offices and condominiums, would be a towering special case. It could rise to 40 stories, more than 500 feet.
The plans now under consideration could set the precedent for commercial development in Sandy for generations. The government will consider drafts of proposed ordinances later this month. Public participation so far has been minimal, which is too bad, because Sandy's future is being debated today.

[UV4EVER]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

What areas did you incorporate into SLC to get the 558,000?

Salt Lake City 180,651
North Salt Lake 12,628 (Davis Co, I know)
South Salt Lake 21,547
Murray 45,732
Holladay 25,527
Cottonwood Heights city 35,351
West Valley City 122,374
Taylorsville 58,620
Unincorporated SLCo 56,000


Greater Salt Lake City 558,430

[UV4EVER]

Originally Posted by cololi

But only if any of those other cities on the list did not include their suburban communities as well. I see Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Denver, Las Vegas, etc. with fairly sizeable suburbs that aren't included in their populations either.

Yeah, but if SLC were to annex some of the more logical extensions of itself (and leave some of the other developed suburbs to do the same), this would leave the metro in a very similar situation to some of the areas you mentioned.

For example, SLC would have around 560,000 just like Denver and Las Vegas AND there would still be sizable suburbs like "Jordan", Sandy, Bountiful, Lehi, and Layton. I don't think SLC has to annex the whole county but if it did what seems logical, it would definitely be more up to par.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Not sure if this has been listed on here before by anyone but I notice a new project going on in Midvale right on 7720 South near State Street. ( It's where the old Family Dollar store was. ) On the lot is a billbroad with a rendering of the overall project that looks like it will be 4-stories of mix-use. It's called "Center Square"

Renderings

Center Square?? Are these people for real? Is Paul Lynde going to live there?

Why can't Utah developers come up with decent names. Why does the word "center" have to be in the name of nearly every development? I give them kudos for actually using the word "square," though... and for not calling it the Square Center.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by delts145

A taller Sandy: Growing skyward could shape Sandy's future

Tribune Editorial

Skyscrapers in Sandy? Why not?

... We don't pretend to be urban planners. We only know enough to know that we don't know enough. Clearly, this is a complex undertaking. But it seems to us that if Sandy were to develop a dense downtown core in the south end of the valley, it might provide the opportunity for a large number of people to live closer to where they work. That could reduce commuting, air pollution and fuel consumption.

Urban planners in Phoenix thought the same thing back in the 1980s and 1990s. They encouraged the development of 5 distinct "villages" around the Phoenix metro area. Instead of people living closer to where they work, it just increased commutes, pollution, fuel consumption and congestion. For some strange reason, most people just don't seem to live near where they work.

If things were like they were 40 years ago and people worked at one job for 30 years at a stretch, then it would make more sense to buy a home close to work, but people change jobs on average 7 times in their careers. Those jobs will be all over the valley, not just near their home.

So, what we'll end up with is a lot of congestion going both ways on I-15 during the rush hours, not just toward or away from downtown SLC.

[DMTower]

Originally Posted by UV4EVER

Salt Lake City 180,651
North Salt Lake 12,628 (Davis Co, I know)
South Salt Lake 21,547
Murray 45,732
Holladay 25,527
Cottonwood Heights city 35,351
West Valley City 122,374
Taylorsville 58,620
Unincorporated SLCo 56,000


Greater Salt Lake City 558,430

Cottonwood Heights just voted to separate a few years ago... I doubt they will reincorporate.

[MetroFanatic]

Originally Posted by Stenar

So, what we'll end up with is a lot of congestion going both ways on I-15 during the rush hours, not just toward or away from downtown SLC.

Ah, that is why I love TRAX. The only thing you have to worry about is whether or not you'll be sitting or standing on the guaranteed 40 minute ride (that is in my case at least, problems pending). Either way is fine with me.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by MetroFanatic

Ah, that is why I love TRAX. The only thing you have to worry about is whether or not you'll be sitting or standing on the guaranteed 40 minute ride (that is in my case at least, problems pending). Either way is fine with me.

I love mass transit. I ride Frontrunner to work the 2x a week I work in the office (I work from home 3 days a week). But less than 10% of commuters ever ride mass transit.

[delts145]

Cottonwood Heights: Wasatch Blvd. may become a retail hub

Developer is proposing hotels, retail near mouth of Big Cottonwood

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10082847

At the mouth of Big Cottonwood Canyon


"We could go in there and put some strip malls in and nobody would be happy," said developer Gary Harrison. "But we don't want to do that. We want to do something we and the residents can both be proud of."
The plan is to put 25 high-end, single-family homes along Racquet Club Drive as a buffer between existing neighborhood and hotels, which Harrison said will cater to skiers, hikers and business travelers.
The development, he said, fits in with the city's plan to create a gateway.


.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Urban planners in Phoenix thought the same thing back in the 1980s and 1990s. They encouraged the development of 5 distinct "villages" around the Phoenix metro area. Instead of people living closer to where they work, it just increased commutes, pollution, fuel consumption and congestion. For some strange reason, most people just don't seem to live near where they work.

If things were like they were 40 years ago and people worked at one job for 30 years at a stretch, then it would make more sense to buy a home close to work, but people change jobs on average 7 times in their careers. Those jobs will be all over the valley, not just near their home.

So, what we'll end up with is a lot of congestion going both ways on I-15 during the rush hours, not just toward or away from downtown SLC.

I won't be so bad once frontrunner expansion South to Sandy and beyond. I believe there would be a frontrunner station just down the road from the Sandy Towers project.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

I won't be so bad once frontrunner expansion South to Sandy and beyond. I believe there would be a frontrunner station just down the road from the Sandy Towers project.

Less than 10% of commuters ride mass transit. It'll be bad.

[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by delts145

Cottonwood Heights: Wasatch Blvd. may become a retail hub

Developer is proposing hotels, retail near mouth of Big Cottonwood

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10082847

At the mouth of Big Cottonwood Canyon


"We could go in there and put some strip malls in and nobody would be happy," said developer Gary Harrison. "But we don't want to do that. We want to do something we and the residents can both be proud of."
The plan is to put 25 high-end, single-family homes along Racquet Club Drive as a buffer between existing neighborhood and hotels, which Harrison said will cater to skiers, hikers and business travelers.
The development, he said, fits in with the city's plan to create a gateway.


.

I hope this is not allowed, it's too close to the stream bed! If we keep allowing these types of developments, we can kiss our "best tasting water" goodbye.