Winnipeg Construction X

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by H2man

Thank you so much for your explanation confirming my assumptions.

I guess I am just very much in the "pro" category (although I agree its implications are more complex than both you or I understand) such that I don't understand why people are against it or view it as a net loss (assuming they also understand it correctly).

You get:
- a shiny new piece for your downtown
- a vehicle to promote development of the immediate area
- more tax dollars in the long run, since the land has a much higher value than if the development never happened at all

You lose:
- extra tax dollars from the increased value in the short term, assuming the business case is even strong enough to go ahead without the incentive at all

I wouldn't even bother with the "reinvesting the money into public spaces" part. Just having to not pay extra taxes on the land for a while in order to help the business case to get the project off the ground is enough reason for me to do this.

I find the SHED especially problematic. As citizens we have added costs for water/sewer, trash collection, and other city services that go with any similar development. Further, all the SHED development is occurring exclusively within the SHED and mostly benefits the a single developer. It really feels more like a backroom handshake deal to let a friend make money off an opportunity no one else has access to. Worse, the costs of that opportunity are being force on others for 25 years (or more).

[H2man]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I find the SHED especially problematic. As citizens we have added costs for water/sewer, trash collection, and other city services that go with any similar development. Further, all the SHED development is occurring exclusively within the SHED and mostly benefits the a single developer. It really feels more like a backroom handshake deal to let a friend make money off an opportunity no one else has access to. Worse, the costs of that opportunity are being force on others for 25 years (or more).

Is your point that TN isn't paying any property tax to go to those services? If so, I agree. I would structure a TIF to reflect these basic costs rather than the value of the property vs $0. A simple way to do that might be to have the developer pay property tax equivalent to the parcel pre-development for a length of time, but not simply $0.

Agree that this shouldn't be a "pick you favourite developer" tactic. If anything, it should be open and coveted so that developers can compete with proposal quality. Best new shiny thing with best opportunities to spur further economic activity wins, sort of thing.

[CoryB]

I don't know fully how the SHED deal is structured. That said the servicing costs for a two story retail space and a single floor strip mall are going to be significantly less than a condo and hotel tower. Similar on the south side where a surface parking lot was replaced by an office tower, with a sizable foot court, other retail and a residential tower. How much garbage and water/sewage did that parking lot use?

If the TIF model is truly to spur other development in an area a better model might be to look at new property tax - original property tax but then it only gets paid out of net new property taxes from other improved properties within the defined area. So looking at True North Square, they pay 100% of their new property tax however when Wawanessa opens whatever the difference is for True North Square could be recovered off what Wawanessa is paying.

This model would put safe guards in place to both ensure other development truly happens from a project and that no single person could benefit from a TIF.

[Jeff]

Metis Federation making another play around Portage & Main...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-metis-federation-funding-agreement-1.5900915

"Those include purchasing a property at 280 Fort St., near Portage Avenue, in Winnipeg, with the goal of opening a hotel, Chartrand said."

[CoryB]

Of course 280 Fort St is the former Carlton Club, purchased by Fort Garry Hotel to expand their banquet operations before they took over the banquet space at Fort Garry Place. FGH they used the 280 Fort St space as their off site yoga/fitness studio with mixed success.

[buzzg]

That's Yoga Public. I would be devastated if that closed. Hopefully they keep the building and develop the parking lot/clinic.

[esquire]

Interesting. It's a good location for a downtown hotel, and with the Hyatt Place plan falling through I suppose there is an opportunity assuming that the hotel market rebounds to where it used to be.

Carleton Club isn't the biggest site for a new hotel building, though... I wonder how big a hotel would realistically be there?

[trueviking]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the SHED TIF still exists.

TIF is a great incentive to target development. I'd like to see it used for smaller projects moving forward, instead of being a small piece of megaprojects. The $40 million housing TIF from before this government was the driving force behind the change we saw in downtown. It was responsible for thousands of units in dozens of projects....including 360 main.

I'd love to see an affordable housing downtown TIF, with special incentives for parking lots....but the province is definitely more into giant projects....and they are targeting a removal of school taxes anyways, so they might be irrelevant.

[Jeff]

more interesting tidbits from the MMF funding agreement from the Free Press (https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/busine...lopment-projects-573733722.html#cxrecs_s)

Another high-profile project in the works is a boutique hotel Chartrand said is being designed in partnership with Ida Albo, owner of the Fort Garry Hotel, on the site of Albo’s Yoga Public spa on Fort Street.

The plan is to build two additional storeys on top of the current two-storey building for a boutique hotel with about 40 rooms, featuring a spa and gym and health conscious café.

Just in the past year or so the MMF has acquired the smaller, 80,000 square foot, National Research Council building on Ellice Avenue. It has also acquired the Behavioural Health Foundation and accompanying land in Breezy Point with potential future development to take place there

[esquire]

^ Thanks for the additional info.

Adding another two storeys on top of a nearly 45 year old building sounds interesting... I hope they don't completely mangle how it looks. Those garage doors they added to the front when Yoga Public moved in already look crappy enough. I don't really get it though, all that effort for such a tiny new hotel? If nothing else it's good to see a little more density along Fort.

[Jeff]

too bad a partnership with the Hyatt group never materialized to keep them going on that project within such close proximity to their new heritage centre.. looks so awful to greet guests at the Fairmont seeing that boarded up building and anyone going by Portage and Main in general..

[T'Cona]

Hopefully we see additional developments along Fort; certainly great potential.

[peg]

Originally Posted by T'Cona

Hopefully we see additional developments along Fort; certainly great potential.

It could indeed be a neat stretch one day.

Welcome to the Forum T'Cona!

[buzzg]

Next line in that article states a pretty aggressive timeline (unless this has been secretly in the works for quite a while).

Chartrand said Albo, who could not be reached for comment, would operate the hotel. Engineering and architectural designs are underway and he said he hopes permits will be in place for construction to start this year.

It's funny I was working out there in the summer and Ida was giving Sabino Tumillo a tour of the building... guess the MMF won out? Haha. Albos own the parking lot next door, will be interesting to see if they keep it as is or extend the building/hotel there.

[T'Cona]

Originally Posted by peg

It could indeed be a neat stretch one day.

Welcome to the Forum T'Cona!

Thanks.

[borkborkbork]

interesting motion at the standing committee on property development this week

the proposal is that fines for non-compliance with submitted plans be a minimum of $10k or 10% of the building value, whichever is higher

[buzzg]

good

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

interesting motion at the standing committee on property development this week

the proposal is that fines for non-compliance with submitted plans be a minimum of $10k or 10% of the building value, whichever is higher

How about just not issuing an occupancy permit if not in compliance with submitted drawings? Stop work order when deviation is identified?

Turn off the water even!!!

[Jeff]

prime area literally at the foot of an overpass and their main concern is noise, congestion and shadows..

"Good luck to the neighbours on the west side getting any sunshine in the morning or the east side getting any sunshine in the late afternoon," one person wrote.

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/area-residen...buildings-along-jubilee-avenue-1.5305097

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Jeff

prime area literally at the foot of an overpass and their main concern is noise, congestion and shadows..



https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/area-residen...buildings-along-jubilee-avenue-1.5305097

Lol someone wrote a letter saying that other rentals were occupied by a grow op. Not sure these rentals cater to the same kinds of people as illegal grow op operators. The project can only enhance the surrounding area