Halifax Stadium Discussion

[-Harlington-]

I always thought Shannon Park was the best choice or at least somewhere near the water/city
just not Dartmouth Crossing

That is a is a picture to

Location is still up for debate, im just glad this is happening
who knows how long we would have to wait if we dont get a stadium now .

[someone123]

Originally Posted by -Harlington-

who knows how long we would have to wait if we dont get a stadium now .

It seems like an opportunity for this type of event comes along every few years.

It really doesn't make sense to rush and compromise an important $60-70M piece of infrastructure for an event like this. I'm not saying it can't work out, but it needs to be done properly or not at all.

[bedfordite_93]

the stadium could go behind Kent in Bayer's Lake, Shannon Park, or if they build hwy 113, then right at the 102/113 interchange. It could even go next to the race track out by the airport. Remember, Ottawa's NHL arena(Scotiabank Place) is in Kanata, Ontario. Approx. 20-30 mins by highway out of downtown Ottawa.

[beyeas]

I think that the FIFA project is going to, and should be allowed to, die a slow death.
We as a city need to just take what was learned from all this, regroup, and then proceed with a well thought out project that will maximize benefit rather that the quick solution that is in fact appealing only to the lowest common denominator.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by bedfordite_93

Remember, Ottawa's NHL arena(Scotiabank Place) is in Kanata, Ontario. Approx. 20-30 mins by highway out of downtown Ottawa.

Scotiabank place is in fact perfect proof of why large arenas/stadia should NOT be sited well outside urban areas.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I think that the FIFA project is going to, and should be allowed to, die a slow death.
We as a city need to just take what was learned from all this, regroup, and then proceed with a well thought out project that will maximize benefit rather that the quick solution that is in fact appealing only to the lowest common denominator.

I have to disagree. Mayor Kelly should try to get a 6 month extension and try to get the Shannon Park lands. The stadium should be redesigned to make it easy to expand for a future CFL team.

There is always an excuse why a stadium shouldn't be built. Halifax will not be selected for the Commonwealth Games (it had its chance), Pan-Am Games nor Olympic Games (which is fortunate, because these events all end up costing an excessive amount). The FIFA Women's Cup is the right size event for Halifax, and a real effort should be made to finish the effort in a successful manner. Halifax has already had too many failures. Deciding to accept one more without exhausting all avenues will just continue the losing streak.

Since the majority of HRM residents stated that they want a stadium, if Premier Dexter refuses to provide funding then that is one more issue that should be considered when electing HRM MLA's in the next election.

[halifaxboyns]

I really can't see how Canada Land's could get a deal done in 6 months. Canada Lands is not known for being expedient...look at the state SP is in now...

[c@taract_soulj@h]

I know Halifax can get it's shit together in time...I've been down once before and would love to go back to catch a game as I'd be totally for the Fax' over Moncton even tho they have a more central location but that doesn't matter. Dedicated football fans will drive wherever they need to regardless of where they'd play. The interesting thing about Halifax I noticed though is that there really isn't that typical sprawl you'd find most places. Development yeah, but it doesn't look as unappealing as say Toronto or Calgary. I love the natural layout of the HRM so a stadium would fit in quite nicely nestled in. Whatever happens, please hope it doesn't become the mess like the way it did here in Hamilton...it'll save your city a great deal of a headache

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...stadium-debate

[someone123]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I think that the FIFA project is going to, and should be allowed to, die a slow death.
We as a city need to just take what was learned from all this, regroup, and then proceed with a well thought out project that will maximize benefit rather that the quick solution that is in fact appealing only to the lowest common denominator.

The problem is that the city doesn't learn.

The Commonwealth Games bid involved a stadium plan. That should have been refined after the bid died. Instead, the whole thing was dropped because it was no longer politically expedient to build a stadium.

This time, if the FIFA plan falls through, which it probably will, some momentum needs to be retained and a proper, realistic plan needs to be finalized for next time. An optimal long-term site should be selected rather than the site that just happens to work within the current project deadline.

The whole situation is really pathetic.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by c@taract_soulj@h

I'd be totally for the Fax' over Moncton even tho they have a more central location but that doesn't matter. Dedicated football fans will drive wherever they need to regardless of where they'd play.

Moncton has been marketed as the practical stadium location but nobody has proven that more people will drive there from outside or that the number of people coming in from outside the city is greater than the increased number of people in the Halifax metropolitan area.

If you applied the same "X people within Y hours' driving time" standard to Southern Ontario, Kitchener would be considered a more central location for a stadium than downtown Toronto. Nevertheless the SkyDome ended up next to the CN Tower.

The fallacy at play is that those radius calculations count everybody equally, whether they're living next to the stadium or 3 hours away. Somebody who can travel to the stadium in 10 minutes is far more likely to go to a given game than somebody 3 hours or more away. The average distance attendees would be expected to travel to a Moncton stadium is much longer -- in that more important sense a Moncton stadium would be less central with respect to its population base. In the future this will be even more slanted since Halifax is growing far more in absolute terms than anywhere else in the region.

I can't find GDP figures but Statistics Canada puts out employment figures. In the Halifax area in 2011, 225,500 people have jobs. In all of New Brunswick the total is 351,200. Halifax alone has 64% as many people working as all of NB. These are the people who will be paying for tickets and merchandise. This is the sort of "reality check" figure that tends to get neglected.

[q12]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

IMAO, I think this design is very poor as far as expansion is concerned. It just shows that the stadium architect didn't listen to people when they said that they would eventually like to have a CFL team.

With all the information that has been researched thanks to the people of this forum, we should submit an alternative design as a group that we feel would better serve the residents of HRM.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

This is why Shannon Park is a more appropriate choice than Dartmouth Crossing:



Photo credit: smcclearn; smugmug pro.

That photo makes a far more persuasive case for development of the area as a residential project instead of chewing it up for a stadium that gets used a handful of dates a year. Shannon is a poor site for a stadium.

[-Harlington-]

Shannon Park is a nice waterfront location but that whole area is not that pedestrian friendly, although im a person that likes to walk to places
im sure that a nice residential/commercial development can be incorporated into a stadium there though .

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by someone123

The problem is that the city doesn't learn.

The Commonwealth Games bid involved a stadium plan. That should have been refined after the bid died. Instead, the whole thing was dropped because it was no longer politically expedient to build a stadium.

This time, if the FIFA plan falls through, which it probably will, some momentum needs to be retained and a proper, realistic plan needs to be finalized for next time. An optimal long-term site should be selected rather than the site that just happens to work within the current project deadline.

The whole situation is really pathetic.

If the FIFA plan falls through, there will not be a next time for a very, very long time. What makes any of you think that the perfect stadium is just down the road and that all we have to do is whine about the location of this stadium. Until FIFA there was zero serious talk about a new stadium. The simple truth is that if there is no FIFA, there will be no stadium. This stadium is a start. Is it CFL ready? No, but it is something we can build on. Anyway, I don't see the CFL or Mr. Moneybags owner stepping up to the plate to be part of the stadium project. As far as the HRM is concerned, the only play on the table is FIFA and they are designing a stadium to fit the needs of that project. The CFL is only a potential use for the stadium sometime down the road, it is not a guaranteed future tenant. Until someone steps up and puts tens of millions on the table, it is just a dream and a fantasy. HRM is building this for the reality of FIFA, not the fantasy of the CFL. Lets just hope that they design the stadium so that it can be properly expanded if that fantasy ever happens.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That photo makes a far more persuasive case for development of the area as a residential project instead of chewing it up for a stadium that gets used a handful of dates a year. Shannon is a poor site for a stadium.

We agree again. Shock, horror.

Look, there is a reason the relentlessly optimistic folks at TCL said "let's take a pass on this FIFA thing". They knew the timeline was too tight. FIFA plans on announcing in 6.5-7 months, right? July? So we say "we need 6 months" why would they say yes? They have a timeline, they will stick to it.

If we don't/can't get FIFA, we have no tenant for this facility. It should not be built with no tenant.

This is not a wasted exercise, though. Time is now for all the CFL fans to get organized and start fund raising, securing fan support in terms of money in a trust fund, both shares and 1st season tickets, etc. Make it happen, if you could register it as a CIDIF or other instrument you could even offer tax credits. Once you prove the demand from fans, the groundwork is done to get a stadium underway.

Prove demand.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That photo makes a far more persuasive case for development of the area as a residential project instead of chewing it up for a stadium that gets used a handful of dates a year. Shannon is a poor site for a stadium.

...a decent view is a decent view; you can put whatever the hell you want there.

If you believe the stadium will only be used a handful of dates (however many that is in your head), you must not believe HRM's intension of making this a community oriented stadium. We want the universities to use the stadium--performers, ordinary citizens, large municipal event planners, etc...

And if the stadium, in your eyes, isn't worth chewing up precious Shannon Park...let us leave the park in its utopian condition .....

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Welkin

Until FIFA there was zero serious talk about a new stadium.

There was a stadium (I believe more like ~$120M, 20,000+ seater) planned as part of the Commonwealth Games bid that was withdrawn in 2007.

It would be more correct to say that there was zero serious talk of the FIFA event until recently.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

This is my only question in regards to the design. If they are going with a 14,000 seat design and add the 6,000 in the endzones for the FIFA event that's fine. But to expand for the CFL, the design should allow for a 2nd Tier on each of the sidelines that could bring it to 25,000.

Here is the design shown in the Phase 2 Stadium Analysis made available to the public yesterday. It appears that a 2nd tier would be possible on both sides except the media tower would need to be altered.



Source

The design is poor for expansion, poor for wheelchair accessibility, it will be aluminum decking, no cover for seated spectators, and a single tier - everything that I dislike. Also, I always thought a central location was important. As much as I want to get excited about a stadium, I can't get excited about this.

I don't like either the design or the location. Maybe someone123 is right. Putting this out at Dartmouth Crossings might be a mistake. Maybe this should die; whats the point of building a mistake? Haligonians showed overwhelming support for a stadium, unfortunately, they got a proposal that sucks.

I changed my mind after reading c@taract_soulj@h" post. A low cost version of Hamilton's old West Harbour proposal would look great in Halifax and is what I would like to see (below). It has all the good points that the HRM design doesn't. The design below is easy to expand, good for wheelchair accessibility, it is mostly concrete, has some cover for seated spectators, and is a double tier (so people can still see the event from under the stands even if it is raining) - everything that I like in a stadium.



Low cost stadiums can be built. How about this one below (Goodman Stadium - http://www.comfortsuitesbethlehem.co...university.htm). Just start with a good, basic concept and add the FIFA changerooms and whatever else the HRM can afford (like some cover for spectators). This is a more natural style for a stadium that is used in many stadiums (the new Winnipeg Stadium, InfoCision Stadium, Ralph Wilson Stadium, Calgary's McMahon Stadium, Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium, Navy-Marine Corps Stadium, Yale Bowl, Rose Bowl, Stanford Stadium, etc., etc. etc., to some degree, almost every stadium that I have been in). Just think of any stadium and probably it will be partly sunken. I say "natural style" to mean that it uses the ground and green spaces as part of the stadium instead of just flattening the ground and building everything upwards out of man-made materials.

[cormiermax]

Iv pretty much lost all support for this specific stadium proposal honestly. They're really making some poor planning decisions that will only hurt us in the long run. If we're going too build a stadium, and if where going too spend 75 million dollars too build it, lets do it right and not let a bunch of wack jobs (The people behind the report) completely bugger it up.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

Iv pretty much lost all support for this specific stadium proposal honestly. They're really making some poor planning decisions that will only hurt us in the long run. If we're going too build a stadium, and if where going too spend 75 million dollars too build it, lets do it right and not let a bunch of wack jobs (The people behind the report) completely bugger it up.

IMAO, it seems as though somebody in authority has decided on their own personal preference for a design and location, and they are going to push it through no matter what residents say. (on the other hand, maybe my ideal of a sunken bowl type stadium isn't what the majority want).