SAN ANTONIO | Urban Core Development Thread

[ILUVSAT]

Originally Posted by arkitekte

Other Texas cities have a metro population that's much larger than San Antonio's in addition with much more corporate wealth. This rate should be expected.

Not true...look 75 miles to the north. The "metro to the north" has about 370,000 fewer residents than does metro SA. Also, and I know it is out of state, but Nashville is popping up high-rises left and right and it is smaller than both SA and the "metro to the north."

[ILUVSAT]

Originally Posted by Paul in S.A TX

Is this still a go? It's pathetic that the other Texas cities pop out new high rises & skyscrapers like nothing and San Antonio has to incubate one proposed tower for months on end with a never ending drum roll it seems. I'm not happy.... I hope Frost and CPS build iconic landmark structures that will make SA skyscraper lovers jaws drop. I'm waiting for that day, I've even said a couple prayers, hah, how sad is that?

Don't hold your breath on the CPS building. I think Frost will be in the 500' to 600' range at best (unless the project increases in size or they slap a huge spire on it).

[TexHorn]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

Not true...look 75 miles to the north. The "metro to the north" has about 370,000 fewer residents than does metro SA. Also, and I know it is out of state, but Nashville is popping up high-rises left and right and it is smaller than both SA and the "metro to the north."

Those cities have a lot more corporations and wealthy folks. Nothing inherently wrong with that as it makes San Antonio a more affordable place to live, but it also means a slower development pace.

[fordman2800]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

Don't hold your breath on the CPS building. I think Frost will be in the 500' to 600' range at best (unless the project increases in size or they slap a huge spire on it).

Yea, I gave up on the CPS headquarters being a true skyscraper. I read that they're looking for 200k to 250k sq ft range. That would make it smaller than the Frost tower. I hope I'm wrong.....

[UrbanTrance]

Originally Posted by fordman2800

Yea, I gave up on the CPS headquarters being a true skyscraper. I read that they're looking for 200k to 250k sq ft range. That would make it smaller than the Frost tower. I hope I'm wrong.....

They might be able to entice another corporation to move downtown and increase the office space and height.

Now, if they continue with the design competition, we could get something interesting, though I'm not sure how tall.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

Not true...look 75 miles to the north. The "metro to the north" has about 370,000 fewer residents than does metro SA. Also, and I know it is out of state, but Nashville is popping up high-rises left and right and it is smaller than both SA and the "metro to the north."

370,000 residents in a metro area isn't as substantial as you might imagine. Don't forget that I also added "corporate wealth". Personal wealth should also be noted. Would you not say that Austin and Nashville are much more affluent than San Antonio?

[necropolis]

Per an article in the San Antonio Business Journal, "Weston Urban aspires to be a multifamily company, Smith said, adding that the company is hoping to build something close to 1,000 new units in downtown San Antonio.
But most importantly, Smith told me, it won't be beige and there will be no more four-story brown boxes."

The next couple of years could bring some new mid-rise, at least, designs with construction hopefully a year after that. Weston Urban and their leadership are proving to be a great asset to the city.

[@sabydesign]

Originally Posted by arkitekte

370,000 residents in a metro area isn't as substantial as you might imagine. Don't forget that I also added "corporate wealth". Personal wealth should also be noted. Would you not say that Austin and Nashville are much more affluent than San Antonio?

Hello. New here, but have enjoyed this forum for several years.

It's a fact that Nashville and Austin are more affluent, with moderately higher median incomes.

However, I don't think this plays as big a role in the slow pace of downtown development.

I think it has more to do with the industries that drive SA's economic engine - Military, Tourism, Medical, Manufacturing, and Oil and Gas.

Pound for pound, we have a much larger corporate base than Austin and a slightly larger base than Nashville, based on Fortune 500 company headquarters and small-to-mid size registered businesses.

The issue comes the types of people employed by these firms. SA DOES NOT have a significant tech presence like Austin, which attracts a ton of interest from late Generation X and millennial talent, thus forcing their downtown's hand. Nor does SA have Nashville's entertainment presence, which attracts the creative class in droves, again forcing their downtown hand.

Heck, SA's leading tech company - Rackspace - planted its roots in Windcrest - WINDCREST!

Tourism aside, our major economic engines require space to operate, space that downtown cannot provide.

Downtown is rising - I see this every day from my office on Houston St - but in order to attain exponential growth seen in Austin, we must foster a tech sector, we must produce housing that is affordable, and we must seek to recruit our larger corporations to open satellite offices downtown - see USAA.

We also have to change how we market SA to potential relocating companies and employees. Tired of traveling and seeing the Alamo and Sea World as the only representations of our city.

We're not too far from the goal, Randy and Weston Urban see the potential, as do many others.

When the gates do open, it will be a flood of activity. Just have to keep pushing.

Love this forum. Look forward to learning and sharing more!

[Spoiler]

That hotel rendering is terrible. Why would they use that street corner space for a stairwell, of all things? Wasted opportunity!

[KevinFromTexas]

I think one thing that works against San Antonio is it's downtown is still thought of as a tourist destination mostly for families rather than one of business. Most corporations who send their employees on trips don't blink an eye at the cost, but families who are trying to figure in all the other costs so they can have a good time sure do. Granted San Antonio has very nice hotels. It is no doubt the place to go on say a romantic trip in Texas if you're thinking of getting away and staying in a nice hotel.

One thing the city should be doing is encouraging businesses to come back to downtown and fill the existing buildings instead of missing the opportunities when they choose the suburbs instead. If that were to happen and efforts were made to see even incremental expansions into downtown, it would catch on. I would have said someone was insane 15 years ago if they told me downtown Austin would look the way it does now. It's also partially a cultural thing. There needs to be a shift back to recognizing the value of the inner city and the benefits of having everything closer in rather than farther out. I can't imagine how boring it must be for some office workers way out in the suburbs would rather work downtown in that awesome environment with great food and meeting places. Hemisphere Park and the Riverwalk are incredible assets to downtown that companies would be crazy not to take advantage of on either a lunch break or company meetings. I cannot think of a single place in Texas that is a more intimate setting outdoors.

[jaga185]

Kevin is right. So many of my friends think downtown is boring and don't believe it is even nice. I have to tell them it's that mentality as to why our downtown is just now starting to actually pick up steam. When this steam should have been around 20 years ago.

It's not like we had a deserted downtown, it's always been lively for the past 70ish years. The problem was locals didn't like to eat or "play" down there. Thankfully it's changing but it took cultural shifts of being behind the times to get people to actually go there for a night out instead of taking relatives or friends when they'd visit.

With Hemisfair going to be finished by 2017? I can't remember the exact date and Weston Urban building its new neighborhood around the Frost / Geekdom / Weston area, it will definitely be different by 2020.

[KevinFromTexas]

As for new high rises and modern designs clashing with history - I think of places like Philadelphia and Boston and how they've managed to have both in a tasteful way. Go check out some of the new towers that are planned for Boston. They're modern and beautiful, and they're sharing streets and intersections with very old buildings. San Antonio's downtown is built much in the same way that Boston is. Narrow streets with narrow lots.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=218167
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=218166

Anyway, maybe I'm just a tourist, but whenever I'm in San Antonio I'm most interested in seeing downtown and the neighborhoods that surround it, because to me that is the real San Antonio. And I have to say, for whatever flack San Antonio may get for not being bike-friendly, I'd have to say the opposite is true. At least Central San Antonio is nice to ride a bike in. I was in town last month and I brought my bike along. I rode from the Freeman Coliseum to downtown. The neighborhoods east of downtown were a breeze to ride through. Very few hills and almost no traffic. I may have encountered one or two cars both ways. Once I was downtown, it was busier, but San Antonio's downtown is way easy to get around in on a bicycle because no one's in a rush, and the environment is just more inviting without a car. I rode around for 2 hours I guess. And I'm seeing more people riding bikes every time I visit. I met a guy on the Hays Street bridge on the way there sitting on the bridge with his bike and laptop. He saw me wandering around the bridge checking out the views and asked if I needed air for my tires. I said I was good, I couldn't really hear because I had my music going still. So I wandered back and forth a few more times. Then he motioned to the sky to take pictures of the clouds. I just sort of snapped a photo as a half thought. Then while coming back by again, he started to talk again so I took off my music. He said I looked like I was coming from a long way. I mentioned that I was in town for the dog show over at the coliseum, and that I rode my bike downtown for photos. He was super nice and welcomed me to San Antonio with a beer. haha Anyway, we talked about San Antonio - the bridge, architecture, bicycles and not liking television when we could be outside seeing the city. That Hays Street Bridge is a cool place.

Anyway, I've gone off topic, but San Antonio has an amazing downtown.

[UrbanTrance]

I also think there is a lack of appetite from local and national developers. I think there is demand here; there are enough SAers yearning for change, but it is very hard to convince the top dogs, especially when there are other cities that have a "classier/sexier/creative/whatever they are looking" for image. I think good things will come to SA but the dominoes just need to start falling.

Big things take a long time to come into development here. We've been waiting since what, 2012, for Frost and CPS towers? Whether they are only 20 stories or the biggest supertalls in the world, it still feels like it shouldn't take that long. I know there are some hurdles they had to get through, but still. Maybe I'm just too pushy or impatient. I can definitely see things picking up by the end of the decade, though, especially with Weston Urban's vision. Thank goodness we have some big players that want to make downtown more lively and diverse.

[ILUVSAT]

Originally Posted by arkitekte

Would you not say that Austin and Nashville are much more affluent than San Antonio?

Yes, absolutely. I would agree with that statement.

[ILUVSAT]

Originally Posted by @sabydesign

Pound for pound, we have a much larger corporate base than Austin and a slightly larger base than Nashville, based on Fortune 500 company headquarters and small-to-mid size registered businesses.

"Much larger"...Are you sure? We may have a few more F-500's, but, I do not think we have that many more small-to-medium business than Austin(*) and Nashville as you might think. Those two cities are (and have been for some time) hotbeds of entrepreneurship. They're leaders in the development of small-to-medium sized business in the U.S.

Furthermore, if having a larger corporate presence equates to more development, more high-rises, larger talent base, younger population, etc...then I think SA would be in a different situation that it finds itself today (on many fronts - not just commercial real estate).

An interesting note: If I am not mistaken, Irving, TX has as many F-500 companies as San Antonio.


*To be listed on the F-500, the company must be publicly traded. So, for example, Dell is not longer listed on the F-500...it is a private company.

[Paul in S.A TX]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

"Much larger"...Are you sure? We may have a few more F-500's, but, I do not think we have that many more small-to-medium business than Austin(*) and Nashville as you might think. Those two cities are (and have been for some time) hotbeds of entrepreneurship. They're leaders in the development of small-to-medium sized business in the U.S.

Furthermore, if having a larger corporate presence equates to more development, more high-rises, larger talent base, younger population, etc...then I think SA would be in a different situation that it finds itself today (on many fronts - not just commercial real estate).

An interesting note: If I am not mistaken, Irving, TX has as many F-500 companies as San Antonio.


*To be listed on the F-500, the company must be publicly traded. So, for example, Dell is not longer listed on the F-500...it is a private company.

I think being the capital has a lot to do with things. I've been to Nashville more than once and I don't think it's entirely the way you describe it, It is a nice city but I wouldn't even put it in S.A.'s league. I wonder what S.A. would be like if it were the capital of Texas? It was once the capital.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by arkitekte

Would you not say that Austin and Nashville are much more affluent than San Antonio?

No.

Neither city or metro is San Francisco or Boston.

Basic data will show your loaded question to be both hyperbolic and false.

In fact, San Antonio and Nashville have identical median household incomes.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

*To be listed on the F-500, the company must be publicly traded.

This is true. That's why HEB, Whataburger and iHeartMusic are not F500 companies.

[sirkingwilliam]

Alright, let's get the discussion back on track.

Please discuss urban core developments of San Antonio.

Thank you.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

No.

Neither city or metro is San Francisco or Boston.

Basic data will show your loaded question to be both hyperbolic and false.

In fact, San Antonio and Nashville have identical median household incomes.

I guess since I've lived in both I wouldn't know what I'm talking about.