Canadian Retail Thread

[esquire]

^ Cool map. Looks like Halifax will have bragging rights (such as they are) as the smallest North American metro with a full size IKEA for years to come. On the other hand, it's surprising that a massive metro like Houston apparently only has one location?

[q12]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Cool map. Looks like Halifax will have bragging rights (such as they are) as the smallest North American metro with a full size IKEA for years to come. On the other hand, it's surprising that a massive metro like Houston apparently only has one location?

Yeah crazy isn't it? I added a 2nd Dallas store that is suppose to open around the same time as Halifax in 2017, although it's actually smaller than the Halifax store.

But for a State of nearly 30 million it's suprising they will only have 4 stores. I think IKEA is more popular in Canada than the U.S.

[Acajack]

The IKEA map really shows how "small is beautiful" (population-wise anyway) can work in Canada's favour. There are tons of metros in the U.S. that have well over 1 million people that don't have an IKEA and are some distance away from IKEA stores.

Costco is another good example of this. It has stores in sub-200k Canadian cities like Moncton, St. John's and Sudbury. But none in cities like Buffalo NY which is of similar size to Ottawa-Gatineau. (Ottawa-Gatineau has 4 Costcos.)

Costco has only one store in Pittsburgh, a metro comparable to Vancouver.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The IKEA map really shows how "small is beautiful" (population-wise anyway) can work in Canada's favour. There are tons of metros in the U.S. that have well over 1 million people that don't have an IKEA and are some distance away from IKEA stores.

Costco is another good example of this. It has stores in sub-200k Canadian cities like Moncton, St. John's and Sudbury. But none in cities like Buffalo NY which is of similar size to Ottawa-Gatineau. (Ottawa-Gatineau has 4 Costcos.)

Costco has only one store in Pittsburgh, a metro comparable to Vancouver.

I've known a few Americans attending school here in Kingston who were utterly shocked to discover just how many stores and services are available here, considering the city only has 125,000 people. The fact that we have a Costco here was something all of them brought up, actually. (Another popular one was transit--many were surprised that bus transit was halfway decent here).

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I've known a few Americans attending school here in Kingston who were utterly shocked to discover just how many stores and services are available here, considering the city only has 125,000 people. The fact that we have a Costco here was something all of them brought up, actually. (Another popular one was transit--many were surprised that bus transit was halfway decent here).

Drummondville has a Costco, pop. 75,000 . To me, it seems normal for Kingston to have a Costco, with a population of 125,000. Trois-Rivières also has one. I think cities in Canada have a lot to offer, but we don't realize it.

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The IKEA map really shows how "small is beautiful" (population-wise anyway) can work in Canada's favour. There are tons of metros in the U.S. that have well over 1 million people that don't have an IKEA and are some distance away from IKEA stores.

Costco is another good example of this. It has stores in sub-200k Canadian cities like Moncton, St. John's and Sudbury. But none in cities like Buffalo NY which is of similar size to Ottawa-Gatineau. (Ottawa-Gatineau has 4 Costcos.)

Costco has only one store in Pittsburgh, a metro comparable to Vancouver.

I think another reason why international stores, particularly Costco's hundred stores in Canada does so well in this country is because Canada doesn't have a lot of competition in grocery stores specifically. Other than Loblaw's company of store, Sobey's (Safeway, IGA), Overwaitea (Save-on-foods), there's only larger international company's like Walmart etc, nationwide.

There are regional grocery stores in Saskatchewan like Saskatoon Coop stores but other than the above mentioned stores plus the two Costco stores and each of the Walmarts in the city of Saskatoon, thats it besides small mom&pop grocery stores. USA has tons of other grocery stores for competition.

Something else I've noticed in a case of Saskatoon is that most of the major shopping malls and the Real Canadian Superstores in the city have underground parking which maybe help to make these shopping area's particularly popular during coldest time of year of Christmas.

[SaskScraper]

...

[esquire]

So are all those IKEAs a feather in our collective cap because we support so many with a relatively small population, and we like to patronize a store that sells such stylish furniture and décor pieces?

Or is it an indictment of our economic condition because we can only buy cheap, somewhat disposable furniture that is specifically suited to smaller spaces that we're forced into due to our relative lack of prosperity?

A bit of an economic Rorschach test for you

[q12]

Originally Posted by esquire

So are all those IKEAs a feather in our collective cap because we support so many with a relatively small population, and we like to patronize a store that sells such stylish furniture and décor pieces?

Or is it an indictment of our economic condition because we can only buy cheap, somewhat disposable furniture that is specifically suited to smaller spaces that we're forced into due to our relative lack of prosperity?

A bit of an economic Rorschach test for you

Here is a possible shocking stat.

IKEA Canada is planning on doubling the store count from 12 to 24 stores by 2025 (already up to 14 with Halifax and Quebec City under construction).

Unless IKEA USA ramps up expansion, it is possible that they would be in the 50 stores range by 2025.

That would be approx. 2-1 ratio USA IKEA's to Canadian IKEA's, compared to a 10-1 population ratio.

I think this is more to do with Canada being a little more open and accepting to European styles, and also the fact the IKEA stores in the states are not painted Red, White and Blue. Plus Americans like everything including furniture and houses as big as possible which isn't really found in IKEA, except for the size of the store itself.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by q12

Plus Americans like everything including furniture and houses as big as possible which isn't really found in IKEA, except for the size of the store itself.

Haha, good point. Ashley is kind of like their IKEA... that furniture is practically designed to be as big and take up as much space as possible. Some of my McMansion dwelling relatives swear by that stuff.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by q12

I think this is more to do with Canada being a little more open and accepting to European styles, and also the fact the IKEA stores in the states are not painted Red, White and Blue. Plus Americans like everything including furniture and houses as big as possible which isn't really found in IKEA, except for the size of the store itself.

Ikea can be quite bland as well so I don't think that is it.

I think it has more to do with the average size of dwelling that Canadians live in Vs americans.

If you look at where the Ikeas are located in the US its predominantly in more dense centres, where as large cities that are characterized by sprawl and big houses (ie the Texan cities) have far less Ikeas than one would expect.

[WhipperSnapper]

I haven't looked or purchased furniture from Ikea in a really long time however, when I did, I didn't find their furniture (sofa, tables, etc.) particularly smaller.

It was cheap and disposable. Perhaps Americans are still like my parent's generation in which you buy once for life. It wouldn't really explain the amount of retail square footage in the US however, they also have an absolutely insane amount of rental storage space that doesn't even account for the larger homes. They could all be hoarders.

[Acajack]

Could there be less fierce competition in Canada (compared to the States) for IKEA from domestic retailers in the same market niche?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Could there be less fierce competition in Canada (compared to the States) for IKEA from domestic retailers in the same market niche?

Before they opened an IKEA in Winnipeg, I used to go to the one in Minneapolis. Despite being a big American city there weren't many places that offered a similar product. Definitely more places that offered more upscale, high-end type design, but if anything the comparable low to mid range alternatives weren't really any better than what there was in Winnipeg (places like EQ3, Urban Barn, Jysk).

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Could there be less fierce competition in Canada (compared to the States) for IKEA from domestic retailers in the same market niche?

I'd say that's definitely the case in my local market. Here, we have a number of big box furniture and appliance stores like Leon's and Worldwide Furniture that are affordable, but offering mostly stuff i would never want in my home. It tends to be either "mock country" (stuff like honey-coloured wood dining sets and shelving) or "overstuffed suburban" (black or maroon leather or vinyl pillow-style sofas and recliners, complemented by 80s style glass coffee tables).

There are a couple of smaller stores offering nicer designs, but they're higher end and much more costly than Ikea.

[ue]

The only parts of the US that appear to have rates of IKEA stores similar to Canada (though still not at the same level) is California and the Bos-Wash corridor. But the Tri-State area, with nearly 20 million people, still has the same amount of IKEA stores as the GTA with 6 million people. Los Angeles likewise only has 4 stores and covers a vast geographic area at the same time.

I decided to see how this holds up across the Atlantic, where IKEA has been around for much longer in. Greater London itself has only 4 IKEA stores for what, 9, 10 million people? The rest of the UK stores have only 1 per city/region, which is more in keeping with Canada's mid and smaller sized centres. In France, Paris appears to have 7 IKEAs, which is more in keeping per capita with Canada than London or New York. In Germany, Berlin with 4 million or so has 4 IKEAs, Hamburg has 3, Munich 2, and Cologne 2. Also more in keeping with Canada per capita. Though I know Germany is IKEA's largest market.

[WhipperSnapper]

Is the UK like Europe or North America when it comes to renting an apartment? For example, is there flooring/kitchen cabinets, etc with the unit or do you, as a tenant, have to put them in? Is this still done throughout Europe too?

Ikea seems to be big in NA markets where people move around a lot. Cheap disposable furniture is definitely an advantage.

[GreaterMontréal]

Quebec City will have its Ikea.
summer 2018, in Ste-Foy, situated in the big 5Msf commercial center. 340,000 sf

http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/about_ikea...e_announcement

Quebec City already have a pick-up and order point.

[SpongeG]

Hudsons Bay is expanding to Europe, they will open a store in Amsterdam with more to follow

Department store chain Hudson’s Bay announced its first steps onto the Dutch market today. Over the coming years, the Canadian retailer will open approximately twenty department stores in Dutch cities. In Amsterdam, Hudson’s Bay signed a lease with IVY Group for the buildings located at Rokin 21, Rokin 49 and the Vleeshal building located at Nes.

http://www.ivygroup.nl/en/news/hudso...n-in-amsterdam

[ue]

When was the last time a new Bay store was built in Canada?