The US Census Bureau thread

[iheartthed]

Fast growing regions in general tend to be less segregated than slow growing places. I recall from a thread on this forum years ago that Las Vegas is the least racially segregated metro and it doesn't have discernible patterns of racial segregation, but like 90% of the city was developed within the past 40 years.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by Lobotomizer

Not suggesting any relocation, but can you imagine Grand Rapids or Tulsa having both an NFL and NBA team, though? I know the Nola team's, particularly the Saints, have a ton of support from the entire state, and even beyond so it's a different circumstance.

A little weird, but I think they are the de facto teams for that region of the south, drawing from a larger area, which has a lot of good sports history and culture at the collegiate level.

There are stranger situations, at least to me. Green Bay/Milwaukee is strange to me. Jacksonville having NFL has never not been weird to me. Portland not having a pro baseball team is incredibly weird to me.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by subterranean

A little weird, but I think they are the de facto teams for that region of the south, drawing from a larger area, which has a lot of good sports history and culture at the collegiate level.

There are stranger situations, at least to me. Green Bay/Milwaukee is strange to me. Jacksonville having NFL has never not been weird to me. Portland not having a pro baseball team is incredibly weird to me.

New Orleans got the basketball team because the owner of the Charlotte Hornets moved it there. I don't think they would have gotten a basketball team otherwise. I believe that their football team has a well-established and rabid base, so it is not going anywhere, much like the Green Bay Packers will likely never move.

[SlidellWx]

Originally Posted by Lobotomizer

I was just looking at the Wikipedia page for US MSA rankings, and was shocked to see New Orleans has dropped to the 58th largest with a population of only 962,165.

I knew it wasn't a huge place, but still thought it was in the 1.3 or 1.4 million range. It's shocking to me to see it ranked lower than places such as Greenville, SC, Omaha, NE, and Tulsa, OK

For some reason, the primary suburban parish (St. Tammany) of the New Orleans metro area was dropped with the latest census definition. That removed ~275,000 people from the metro area. It's all meaningless as the Northshore (as St. Tammany is referred to locally) is very much a part of the New Orleans metro area. Of course, the larger region around New Orleans (within an hour drive) has ~3 million people. They are just counted as being in 6 different metro areas (or 4 CSA's).

[iheartthed]

Detroit is suing the US Census Bureau again, this time over the annual estimates.

Detroit sues Census Bureau, alleging its housing counts underestimate city's population

Dana Afana
Detroit Free Press
March 28, 2024

...

The city claims the Census Bureau is underestimating Detroit's population, which it says is 625,561, based on demolitions of abandoned structures and ignoring the restoration of vacant homes and construction of new homes, according to a federal lawsuit filed Tuesday.

As a result, the complaint alleges the agency's methodology is "discriminatory" toward cities like Detroit with large African American and Hispanic populations, because the policy "guarantees that poor and minority communities like Detroit will be undercounted" each year.

...

Detroit demolished more than 4,000 uninhabitable abandoned homes in 2021 and 2022, which the federal agency calculated as a population loss of 8,000 people. The bureau treats the demolition of vacant and uninhabitable structures, a years-long initiative to eliminate the city's blight, as lost housing units. For each demolished building, the agency subtracts about two residents from its population estimate, according to the lawsuit.

Detroit demolished more than 4,000 uninhabitable abandoned homes in 2021 and 2022, which the federal agency calculated as a population loss of 8,000 people. The bureau treats the demolition of vacant and uninhabitable structures, a years-long initiative to eliminate the city's blight, as lost housing units. For each demolished building, the agency subtracts about two residents from its population estimate, according to the lawsuit.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...n/73128598007/

I'm overall skeptical of claims that Detroit is being systematically undercounted, but I do think the city is pointing out a real flaw in how the USCB creates those estimates. If indeed people are starting to reabsorb abandoned housing then it could be a glaring hole in the estimate methodology. I'm pretty skeptical that this is happening on a wide scale, though. USCB interim census estimates in Detroit tend to be too generous instead of prone to undercounting. Both the 2010 and 2020 census results came in below the annual estimates.

[sopas ej]

From NPR:

Next U.S. census will have new boxes for 'Middle Eastern or North African,' 'Latino'

MARCH 28, 2024
8:44 AM ET
HEARD ON ALL THINGS CONSIDERED

On the next U.S. census and future federal government forms, the list of checkboxes for a person's race and ethnicity is officially getting longer.

The Biden administration has approved proposals for a new response option for "Middle Eastern or North African" and a "Hispanic or Latino" box that appears under a reformatted question that asks: "What is your race and/or ethnicity?"

Going forward, participants in federal surveys will be presented with at least seven "race and/or ethnicity" categories, along with instructions that say: "Select all that apply."

After years of research and discussion by federal officials for a complicated review process that goes back to 2014, the decision was announced Thursday in a Federal Register notice, which was made available for public inspection before its official publication.

[...]

The "White" definition has changed, and "Latino" is now a "race and/or ethnicity."

[edale]

Originally Posted by DCReid

New Orleans got the basketball team because the owner of the Charlotte Hornets moved it there. I don't think they would have gotten a basketball team otherwise. I believe that their football team has a well-established and rabid base, so it is not going anywhere, much like the Green Bay Packers will likely never move.

I'd imagine a very significant portion of attendees at Saints and Pelicans games are tourists. Just like with Vegas, people see games in New Orleans as an opportunity to travel to the city and see their team play there. Or people who are in town and decide to take in a game whether or not they have a connection to the team playing. New Orleans gets ~18 million tourists per year. That's the only reason they have two pro sports teams, I think.

[L41A]

Originally Posted by edale

I'd imagine a very significant portion of attendees at Saints and Pelicans games are tourists. Just like with Vegas, people see games in New Orleans as an opportunity to travel to the city and see their team play there. Or people who are in town and decide to take in a game whether or not they have a connection to the team playing. New Orleans gets ~18 million tourists per year. That's the only reason they have two pro sports teams, I think.

No. Saints fans are not tourists just visiting New Orleans. Saints fans are rabid locals. The Saints draw mostly from the natives: Locals, Louisiana, Mississippi.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by L41A

No. Saints fans are not tourists just visiting New Orleans. Saints fans are rabid locals. The Saints draw mostly from the natives: Locals, Louisiana, Mississippi.

Plenty of Saints fans over in Texas. I guess a lot of them are Louisiana ex-pats, but sports bars do a brisk business televising Saints games even here in Austin.

[L41A]

Originally Posted by austlar1

Plenty of Saints fans over in Texas. I guess a lot of them are Louisiana ex-pats, but sports bars do a brisk business televising Saints games even here in Austin.

Yeah. I did say mostly and attending the games -- apart from attendees being just or significantly tourists. Plenty of Saints fans are in South Alabama and Florida Panhandle too. My point is that Saints has devoted local/regional fans that heavily outweigh tourists just visiting the city and then taking in a NFL game. Vegas and New Orleans are both heavy tourist cities but when it comes to NFL football fans (football in general), they are different.

[xzmattzx]

There are several cities that are clear destinations for fans to see their team on the road: Las Vegas, Miami, New Orleans, Phoenix, Los Angeles, and Tampa. I've been to all six of these cities for Eagles games myself, and others.

There are obviously local and regional fans there for their home team, as well. I don't think there are casual fans who decide that morning to attend an NFL game, not with the prices of tickets.

Many fans at the London games are Americans. The same is coming true in Germany as well. There are a lot of Eagles fans going down to Brazil for the game next fall.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

From NPR:

Next U.S. census will have new boxes for 'Middle Eastern or North African,' 'Latino'

MARCH 28, 2024
8:44 AM ET
HEARD ON ALL THINGS CONSIDERED

On the next U.S. census and future federal government forms, the list of checkboxes for a person's race and ethnicity is officially getting longer.

The Biden administration has approved proposals for a new response option for "Middle Eastern or North African" and a "Hispanic or Latino" box that appears under a reformatted question that asks: "What is your race and/or ethnicity?"

Going forward, participants in federal surveys will be presented with at least seven "race and/or ethnicity" categories, along with instructions that say: "Select all that apply."

After years of research and discussion by federal officials for a complicated review process that goes back to 2014, the decision was announced Thursday in a Federal Register notice, which was made available for public inspection before its official publication.

[...]

The "White" definition has changed, and "Latino" is now a "race and/or ethnicity."

We'll see. Middle Eastern was supposed to be split from "white" in the 2020 census, but the Trump administration rolled the change back.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by edale

I'd imagine a very significant portion of attendees at Saints and Pelicans games are tourists. Just like with Vegas, people see games in New Orleans as an opportunity to travel to the city and see their team play there. Or people who are in town and decide to take in a game whether or not they have a connection to the team playing. New Orleans gets ~18 million tourists per year. That's the only reason they have two pro sports teams, I think.

The Saints are the football team of Louisiana. It seems like a similar dynamic to the Packers and Wisconsin, except the Saints are located in the state's largest city. Louisiana and Wisconsin have similar population sizes too.

[ChiSoxRox]

A nice sign of urban revival in the latest estimates (setting aside the usual caveats on them, and just taking the numbers) is San Francisco ticking positive again, and the other Bay Area counties down only a fraction of a percent versus the Covid plunge.

I dug through the methodology, and the main source for estimating internal migration is tax returns, i.e. people identifying if they relocated. I'm musing there might be a year or so lag then on relocation reporting: if someone left during COVID but came back in 2023, they would be skipped in this newest round that would be based off of 2022 movement. That time lag might be a factor in why the local estimates seem to have a lingering covid effect in addition to the difficulty of accurately tracking highly mobile, often under-reported urban populations.

[Buckeye Native 001]

*Just deleted a bunch of posts. Keep politics in the CE Toilet and knock off the racial and political generalizations.*

[JManc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The Saints are the football team of Louisiana. It seems like a similar dynamic to the Packers and Wisconsin, except the Saints are located in the state's largest city. Louisiana and Wisconsin have similar population sizes too.

More than just the football team of Louisiana, it's a religion to them. They worship(ed) at the altar of Drew Brees. I had an ex-g/f from LA whose family lived in Baton Rouge and we went to her sister's wedding, they got married in Saints' jerseys.

[Buckeye Native 001]

I'm so used to the AFC North hating and beating the shit out of each other every season and Packers-Bears, but had no idea until the last few seasons how serious a rivalry is Saints-Falcons. Those folks hate each other.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by JManc

More than just the football team of Louisiana, it's a religion to them. They worship(ed) at the altar of Drew Brees. I had an ex-g/f from LA whose family lived in Baton Rouge and we went to her sister's wedding, they got married in Saints' jerseys.

Yeah, I have friends in Baton Rouge that are die hard Saints fans.

[edale]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

There are several cities that are clear destinations for fans to see their team on the road: Las Vegas, Miami, New Orleans, Phoenix, Los Angeles, and Tampa. I've been to all six of these cities for Eagles games myself, and others.

There are obviously local and regional fans there for their home team, as well. I don't think there are casual fans who decide that morning to attend an NFL game, not with the prices of tickets.

Many fans at the London games are Americans. The same is coming true in Germany as well. There are a lot of Eagles fans going down to Brazil for the game next fall.

Yes, this is mostly what I was referring to. I know the Saints have a rabid fan base, and they draw from all over the Gulf region, but still lots of fans of other teams will decide to travel to New Orleans to see their team play there because NO is a fun city where people like to vacation. I've known lots of people who have done just that.

For the Pelicans, without the history and rabid fandom, I imagine they do draw more of the tourist crowd who decides to go to a game. I did that in San Antonio when I visited. Kinda ran out of things to do in SA, saw the Celtics were playing the Spurs, so decided to get tickets and make a night out of it. I have to imagine this happens in New Orleans too.

New Orleans might be a small market, but when you add in the tourists the city receives each year, it's a much more substantial market.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by L41A

Yeah. I did say mostly and attending the games -- apart from attendees being just or significantly tourists. Plenty of Saints fans are in South Alabama and Florida Panhandle too. My point is that Saints has devoted local/regional fans that heavily outweigh tourists just visiting the city and then taking in a NFL game. Vegas and New Orleans are both heavy tourist cities but when it comes to NFL football fans (football in general), they are different.

And I was pretty much agreeing with you, just pointing out that the pool of Saints fans extends a good way from New Orleans.