CF Pacific Centre Developments

[theKB]

Originally Posted by Vin

Shows how incompetent they are. They made people think they could run this place better than Four Seasons Hotel, which clearly they can't. Funny thing is, after all these years, they still do not know what to do with this huge property.

This makes me wonder how fast they will fill the nordstrom store ultimately. CF clearly has deep enough pockets that they could wait for the interest rate environment to improve. They could also have fears of a slowdown this year and may want to wait for things to recover. These two marquee spots in downtown sitting empty is just an eyesore. Add in granville where the bay is along with seymore, the core retail area is looking rather sad.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by theKB

This makes me wonder how fast they will fill the nordstrom store ultimately. CF clearly has deep enough pockets that they could wait for the interest rate environment to improve. They could also have fears of a slowdown this year and may want to wait for things to recover. These two marquee spots in downtown sitting empty is just an eyesore. Add in granville where the bay is along with seymore, the core retail area is looking rather sad.

But CF invested the money into that old building to attract Nordstrom/Microsoft/Sony so I think they deserve some credit. I just want the Bay parkade block to be redeveloped.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by theKB

This makes me wonder how fast they will fill the nordstrom store ultimately. CF clearly has deep enough pockets that they could wait for the interest rate environment to improve. They could also have fears of a slowdown this year and may want to wait for things to recover. These two marquee spots in downtown sitting empty is just an eyesore. Add in granville where the bay is along with seymore, the core retail area is looking rather sad.

It's not just Pacific Centre.. they have huge empty Nordstrom spaces across the country.. Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto x2, Ottawa..

I think Oxford, with Yorkdale.. will have something way before CF.

Ron.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by theKB

Add in granville where the bay is along with seymore, the core retail area is looking rather sad.

Two of the vacant at grade retail units at The Hudson are for the future Winners entrance (see retail thread).
That will liven up that stretch of Granville.

[officedweller]

Notice sent around the office.
I will be out of town that weekend.

DATE: February 5, 2024

ATTENTION: All Office Tenants - Pacific Centre and HSBC Building

WHAT: 609 Granville Rooftop Cooling Tower Replacement and Helicopter Transport

WHEN: Saturday, February 17 and Sunday, February 18 from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. (both days)

WHY: Cadillac Fairview is undertaking a project to replace the existing rooftop cooling tower servicing 609 Granville. As part of this project, helicopter transport is required to assist with the removal and delivery of equipment. CF has retained an experienced and specialized contractor who has developed a comprehensive safety/traffic plan, which has been reviewed and approved by the City of Vancouver.

IMPACT: As this work is scheduled over the Family Day long weekend, we do not anticipate a significant impact to tenants. Those working in the building on these dates/times should take note of the following impacts:
• VPD/Traffic Control will be situated in the Granville & Dunsmuir, West Pender, West Hastings, and West Cordova Street intersections to manage vehicle and pedestrian traffic.
• Bus service along Granville St from West Cordova to Georgia will be temporarily re-routed to adjacent streets.
• As a precaution, the CF Terrace will be closed during the above noted dates and times.
• Tenants should expect intermittent noise associated with the helicopter use.

Please note, this helicopter transport is weather dependent and may change to the following weekend in the event of strong winds, heavy rain and/or snow. We will notify tenants of any change to the schedule.

[jollyburger]

Here's a FOI on the purchase of 701 West Georgia by CF. Most of it is redacted

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2023-528-release.pdf

[officedweller]

The CF Pacific Centre Bike Valet will be using the inside of the Nordstrom vestibule for storing bikes this summer (where the cafe was located)
- so I guess that means nothing happening with that area any time soon.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Here's a FOI on the purchase of 701 West Georgia by CF. Most of it is redacted

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2023-528-release.pdf

An interesting read! Based on what was unredacted, the City agreed in 1970 to let CF purchase block 42 (containing Pacific Centre) for approximately $8.6 million, plus an annual $100k escalator clause. At one point, in 1997 I think, CF stated its intention to exercise its option. However, it looks like mutually agreed extensions to the lease were entered into delaying the purchase, with the City giving up the escalator clause. Later there was disagreement on valuation of the property based on volumetric assessment.

Anyway, what ultimately happened? I thought CF owned the site outright, so, clearly, at some point they successfully exercised the option and bought a whole block downtown for the price of a few west side homes.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by theKB

This makes me wonder how fast they will fill the nordstrom store ultimately. CF clearly has deep enough pockets that they could wait for the interest rate environment to improve. They could also have fears of a slowdown this year and may want to wait for things to recover. These two marquee spots in downtown sitting empty is just an eyesore. Add in granville where the bay is along with seymore, the core retail area is looking rather sad.

Well, the fact that it remains unoccupied speaks for itself. Either they have totally no faith in their own property location here in downtown Vancouver and therefore not actively seeking a long-term tenant, or they are simply incompetent as previously stated.

[SpongeG]

Maybe they have been in discussions with Simons but Simons is committed to the Toronto stores and won't be able to do anything here until those are done.

Is the hotel portion still doing nothing? even if going it wouldn't be ready for the FIFA?

[jollyburger]

I saw two HVAC service trucks going into where the old driveway was located but there's no sign of work from the outside.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I saw two HVAC service trucks going into where the old driveway was located but there's no sign of work from the outside.

No sign of work on the hotel from our view from TD Tower, either.

The fact is, if CF can sit on the hotel tower being vacant, they can sit on the Nordstrom being vacant.

Remember that when Eaton's and Sears were in there, they probably were paying a pittance for rent because Eaton's was originally a developer of Pacific Centre and the rent would have been grandfathered to Sears - so historically the operation of the mall probably wasn't heavily reliant on leasehold income from the anchor space (if anything, CF might now bear the pro rata share of common area costs for the empty anchor space).

The redevelopment into offices and Nordstrom would have incurred costs/debt, but the office space is, I think, still fully leased.

[NewfBC]

Geeze.. Nordstrom has been closed for a year.. this is a huge space, putting the right deal together takes time. We're not talking about renting out a 500sq ft condo here.

Ron.

[s211]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Geeze.. Nordstrom has been closed for a year.. this is a huge space, putting the right deal together takes time. We're not talking about renting out a 500sq ft condo here.

Ron.

Exactly. There's time to negotiate, which can take 6-12 months and upwards. Add time for internal approvals, etc. You have zero deal until it's fully inked. And even then, multitudes of delays are possible. And a prospective retail tenant is always evolving. The risks are palatable.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Geeze.. Nordstrom has been closed for a year.. this is a huge space, putting the right deal together takes time. We're not talking about renting out a 500sq ft condo here.

Ron.

15 months since the announcement of closure to be exact.

Would 2 years be the right amount of time to find a new operator then?

Remember, this is not just involving the department store space, but also the hotel building. All the more funny at a time when we have a severe shortage of hotel rooms in this City.

I can't remember a time in our city that large retail spaces or hotel buildings have been left vacant for so long, can you?

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Maybe they have been in discussions with Simons but Simons is committed to the Toronto stores and won't be able to do anything here until those are done.

Is the hotel portion still doing nothing? even if going it wouldn't be ready for the FIFA?

Sad, really. There was a time when Simons was quite eager to set up store in downtown Vancouver. The City missed the boat.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Geeze.. Nordstrom has been closed for a year.. this is a huge space, putting the right deal together takes time. We're not talking about renting out a 500sq ft condo here.

Ron.

Sure but the slow process of getting the hotel space sorted doesn’t inspire confidence. Vancouver has a robust hotel market it shouldn’t be hard to come to a deal.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

15 months since the announcement of closure to be exact.

Would 2 years be the right amount of time to find a new operator then?

Remember, this is not just involving the department store space, but also the hotel building. All the more funny at a time when we have a severe shortage of hotel rooms in this City.

I can't remember a time in our city that large retail spaces or hotel buildings have been left vacant for so long, can you?

It's not unusual for sudden closures of large retail companies to take some time to sort out. The closure of Woodwards took decades to sort out. The huge Spencer's store was redeveloped with the Harbour Centre, which took several years (and then the new Sears there closed, leaving another empty space for some time before the building was remodeled again).

It looks like the Rideau Centre and Chinook Centre Nordstrom's spaces are also still vacant, with no announced replacement. It's only two of the Toronto departmental store spaces that have leased - I think Sherway Gardens may be empty too.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Vin

fSad, really. There was a time when Simons was quite eager to set up store in downtown Vancouver. The City missed the boat.

Over 8000 posts about how Vancouver is a horrible place. Impressive consistency.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Over 8000 posts about how Vancouver is a horrible place. Impressive consistency.

Just one more downtown mall away of greatness, if memory serves.

[whatnext]

Saw this in Bloomberg and couldn't help wondering the pension plan involvement is effecting decision making at CF:

Real estate bets gone wrong roil US$1.24 trillion Canadian funds
Ari Altstedter and Layan Odeh, Bloomberg News

...“What’s worked famously well for the last 35 years may not work so well for the next five to 10,” Jo Taylor, chief executive officer of the $248 billion Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan, said in an interview at Bloomberg’s Toronto office.

Taylor’s fund is grappling with the worst four-year run at its real estate operation since it was transformed by the acquisition of a business called Cadillac Fairview in 2000. That company came to be one of the fund’s crown jewels and the single biggest in its portfolio. But last year, Taylor took authority for most future real estate investments away from Cadillac Fairview and brought them in-house, just like the plan’s other asset classes....


https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/real-est...unds-1.2088707