Sports in Canadian culture

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by osmo

NFL is only a real rival in border cities. Places like Winnipeg have Vikings and Packer fans as those teams they identify with but they still would rather go get drunk at a Bombers game given the choice between the two. Places like Vancouver if the Seahawks are playing Arizona and its on the same time as Lions game most would watch NFL.

You think Seahawks games (unless it's the Super Bowl) get better TV ratings in Vancouver than Lions games? I may be wrong but this would be surprising.

I don't even think regular NFL games (non-Super Bowl) get better TV ratings in Toronto than regular Argos games.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd say there may have been a modest Bills thing going on in much of southern Ontario during their heyday with Jim Kelly, etc.

It even made it up into the Ottawa Valley as a ''thing" if I recall.

I knew a number of Bills fans in eastern Ontario.

Yes, no question the Bills were a big deal in the GTA in the early 90s. It was basically equivalent to the Seahawks bandwagoning in Vancouver these days, but even more pronounced. From my visits to Toronto in those days I recall some of the more NFL-friendly media outlets like the Sun and Global basically treating them like a home team.

Originally Posted by osmo

NFL is only a real rival in border cities. Places like Winnipeg have Vikings and Packer fans as those teams they identify with but they still would rather go get drunk at a Bombers game given the choice between the two. Places like Vancouver if the Seahawks are playing Arizona and its on the same time as Lions game most would watch NFL.

The Vikings had a bit of a heyday for a while in Winnipeg when they were doing well (sound familiar?) and they still have a small but fervent core of supporters here even though other successful teams like the Packers have arguably overtaken them, but my impression is that many of the local NFL fans tend to support the Bombers in addition to their NFL team. Out of my circles of friends I can only think of one person(wife's friend's douchy husband) who is a "I hate the CFL" guy.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yes, no question the Bills were a big deal in the GTA in the early 90s. It was basically equivalent to the Seahawks bandwagoning in Vancouver these days, but even more pronounced. From my visits to Toronto in those days I recall some of the more NFL-friendly media outlets like the Sun and Global basically treating them like a home team.



The Vikings had a bit of a heyday for a while in Winnipeg when they were doing well (sound familiar?) and they still have a small but fervent core of supporters here even though other successful teams like the Packers have arguably overtaken them, but my impression is that many of the local NFL fans tend to support the Bombers in addition to their NFL team. Out of my circles of friends I can only think of one person(wife's friend's douchy husband) who is a "I hate the CFL" guy.

The CFL Hater crowd in Quebec and Ottawa is much more low-profile these days. They generally keep to themselves and will now usually politely say ''Uh I prefer the NFL" instead of ''I hate the CFL!" or "the CFL must die!" like it was when I was in my youth.

[kirjtc2]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You think Seahawks games (unless it's the Super Bowl) get better TV ratings in Vancouver than Lions games? I may be wrong but this would be surprising.

I can't speak for everyone in Vancouver, but I was there in 2014 when the Lions were in the playoffs. Went into a restaurant during the game. The one TV was turned to....the Seahawks. Might have been cause the Lions were being blown out, but I thought that was *very* telling.

The Maritimes are very much Patriots country the same way BC is for the Seahawks. The CFL isn't hated as much as ignored.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You think Seahawks games (unless it's the Super Bowl) get better TV ratings in Vancouver than Lions games? I may be wrong but this would be surprising.

I don't even think regular NFL games (non-Super Bowl) get better TV ratings in Toronto than regular Argos games.

I mean watch versus going to the game but it isn't a good even comparison.

Mostly trying to explain interest levels.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

I can't speak for everyone in Vancouver, but I was there in 2014 when the Lions were in the playoffs. Went into a restaurant during the game. The one TV was turned to....the Seahawks. Might have been cause the Lions were being blown out, but I thought that was *very* telling.

The Maritimes are very much Patriots country the same way BC is for the Seahawks. The CFL isn't hated as much as ignored.

Sports bars and restaurants are some of the worst for being CFL-indifferent, CFL-hostile or anti-CFL, so it's not surprising.

[VANRIDERFAN]

In Saskatchewan there is a healthy interest in the NFL. Most people who follow football have their favorite NFL, NCAA and CIS team (Rams/Huskie rivalry is quite heated) but the Riders trump all (I think it is similar in Ottawa and Hamilton as well) and especially during gameday.

The NFL interest is really driven by betting and fantasy (overlaid with the smothering of NFL advertising) but the Riders counter that by being the place to be during gameday. Make that experience fun and the youngsters will come.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sports bars and restaurants are some of the worst for being CFL-indifferent, CFL-hostile or anti-CFL, so it's not surprising.

There are so many TV's in these bars now that all you have to do is ask the bartender to change one of the channels and most will do it for you.

I love watching Americans watching CFL when they are up here.
I was in a bar in Victoria watching a Riders/Calgary game and there were two US couples beside me. I overheard them commenting on the game - "Why are they kicking on 3rd down? There are too many players on the field!!" Why isn't the goal posts at the back of the endzone" etc. So as a great way to strike up a conversation I started to explain the rules, teams etc. Never once I have heard an american say that CFL is crap football and most come away with an appreciation of the trials Canada has with a home league that has to compete with their monster. I tell them that they can watch our games on ESPN 2, I have no idea if any do that when they get home though.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yes, no question the Bills were a big deal in the GTA in the early 90s. It was basically equivalent to the Seahawks bandwagoning in Vancouver these days, but even more pronounced. From my visits to Toronto in those days I recall some of the more NFL-friendly media outlets like the Sun and Global basically treating them like a home team.

Huh. Had no idea. I'm basing my impression on the 1980s, 2000s and 2010s because I wasn't in the country during the 90s, so there you go. These days on autumn Sundays you know there's NFL or CFL on the TVs when you walk past a sports bar, but there's no strong identification for a particular team in smaller cities and towns in southern Ontario (banners, flags, jerseys, media presence, people talking about the game, etc.).

The failure of the Bills' "home game" experiment in Toronto is proof positive that the Bills don't have much of a following in southern Ontario.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by rousseau

The failure of the Bills' "home game" experiment in Toronto is proof positive that the Bills don't have much of a following in southern Ontario.

Yea, that's what the whole flaw in the "Bills in Toronto" thing was - while there's a huge NFL following in Toronto/Southern Ontario, the allegiances are spread across the 32 teams (although I think it's mostly concentrated around 12 teams or so) and not specifically to the Bills.

Anecdotal of course, but of the hundreds of NFL fans I know - I'd say the Bills were ranked about 9th or 10th in allegiance.

[osmo]

Bills in Toronto series was botched from the start. It was over priced and too late into the year. Why would a Toronto local pay 3x the price when they just go to Buffalo and pay $50 for some seats and be able to tailgate and get the authentic NFL experience.

NFL games are actually boring in person (it is made for TV, opposite of baseball which is better live), it's the party before and after the game that is the fun part. Toronto due to nanny liquor laws can't replicate that, after folks went to the first Bills Toronto game they knew it was a scam and stayed away.

You had to have the game in the first 5-6 weeks when every team is still for the most part in it. By late Nov/Dec with a Do a Bills team who really would care? Just go to Real Sorts and watch the game there.

[GernB]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Do the Lethbridge Pronghorns draw well for men's basketball? Lethbridge is the perfect type of city for collegiate sports to thrive. It has a decent population and no competition unless you count that baseball team playing out of Spitz.

Not really. Though the venue (First Choice Centre) is a nice new-ish place that seats about 2200 with room for expansion, at games I've attended I'd estimate the largest crowds at ~1500. Part of this is likely due to the mediocrity of the Horns in recent years, though they are now knocking on the door to a top ten ranking nationally. That being said, when they played in the old gym,which seated about 1200, games were usually sold out, so there doesn't seem to be a lot of growth in popularity.

I agree that Lethbridge should be a great example, but there is competition for the sports dollar here. Lethbridge College (as opposed to U of L) also has a good basketball program and the WHL's Hurricanes are in first place in their division but don't draw really well either.

If the Horns maintain their quality of play hopefully attendance will pick up in the new year.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

I can't speak for everyone in Vancouver, but I was there in 2014 when the Lions were in the playoffs. Went into a restaurant during the game. The one TV was turned to....the Seahawks. Might have been cause the Lions were being blown out, but I thought that was *very* telling.

The Maritimes are very much Patriots country the same way BC is for the Seahawks. The CFL isn't hated as much as ignored.

I work at a restaurant in Richmond, and if the NFL and CFL have games at the same time, we will usually only have one TV showing the CFL game, and sometimes none. Doesn't even have to be a Seahawks game, because like I said earlier, many people prefer different teams.

All the stats showing the CFL's higher popularity are great, but it's completely invisible in my actual experiences. 9/10 times I happen to mention the CFL, it's met with not just indifference, but a questioning of why I would watch a league that's so bad. I don't care, and I know it's anecdotal and particular to my own demographics and stuff, but I still think it's an experience that exists for many people.

Anything is more fun when you can share it with others, so I think this hostility towards it actually turns off a lot of potential fans. It's not easy supporting a team or league when you have nobody to talk to about it. I really think that fandom would grow exponentially because of this effect, if it does start to grow.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rousseau

The failure of the Bills' "home game" experiment in Toronto is proof positive that the Bills don't have much of a following in southern Ontario.

That Bills Toronto series was about 15 years too late... had they launched it in 1994 it would have been WILDFIRE.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

That Bills Toronto series was about 15 years too late... had they launched it in 1994 it would have been WILDFIRE.

Wasn't that at the same time when Flutie went from the Argos to the Bills? My disdain for Toronto hit a high point then. They had Flutie in their backyard and the city couldn't give a shit. He goes 150 km (no idea how far Buffalo is from Toronto) down the road to a different league and they go ape-shit for him. Proved to me that the movers and shakers in Toronto are a bunch posers and green grassers.

[elly63]

^Yes that was ironic how his popularity exploded

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Wasn't that at the same time when Flutie went from the Argos to the Bills? My disdain for Toronto hit a high point then. They had Flutie in their backyard and the city couldn't give a shit. He goes 150 km (no idea how far Buffalo is from Toronto) down the road to a different league and they go ape-shit for him. Proved to me that the movers and shakers in Toronto are a bunch posers and green grassers.

Ummmm... no... but nice try on trying to recreate history.

The height of the Bills popularity in Southern Ontario was during the 4 Super Bowl runs - 1990-1993. After that run, and because of their embarrassing failures in the most important game 4 years in a row, their popularity started to drop - people were sick of them. All Flutie's signing did was bring some Argos fans to following the Bills because they wanted to follow him. Flutie's signing didn't stop the mass exodus of Bills fans. Getting beat 4 years in a row in the SB will do that to any franchise - especially to fans that live in a different country.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Wasn't that at the same time when Flutie went from the Argos to the Bills? My disdain for Toronto hit a high point then. They had Flutie in their backyard and the city couldn't give a shit. He goes 150 km (no idea how far Buffalo is from Toronto) down the road to a different league and they go ape-shit for him. Proved to me that the movers and shakers in Toronto are a bunch posers and green grassers.

It's amazing how your disdain for Toronto hit a high point over a figment of your imagination.

Explains a lot actually.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by theman23

It's amazing how your disdain for Toronto hit a high point over a figment of your imagination.

Explains a lot actually.

It sure does.

[elly63]

And the wannabees obviously didn't read his post. He was talking about Flutie's popularity not the Bills themselves.

Seriously, what is the American attraction anyway, the ROC grew out of that in the 90s.