Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[jlousa]

The amount of redevelopment going on in Chinatown has already rejuvenated the immediate area, the DTES is not going to change much at all though thanks to the zoning current council imposed on it regardless of the future of the viaducts. Woodwards rejuvenated the area immediately around it but did not do much of anything to Main and Hastings which is closer to Woodwards then the Viaducts are. As others have stated hundreds of units could be build with the viaducts in place, look no further the Rogers arena and Spectrum, and while I'm sure extra bodies will helpthe area, it will won't change the DTES from it's current state. People don't tend to venture very far from their homes unless they need to, there is nothing in the DTES to draw them there right now and removing the viaducts will not change that.
Meggs is out to lunch on what he's selling with this project.

[logan5]

As usual we disagree.

As for Oppenheimer, what I'm hearing is that micro suites will count towards the social housing obligation for Oppenheimer. If that's the case only shelter rate housing will not be market rate.

Can you confirm that micro suites will be counted as social housing in Oppenheimer?

[Pinion]

Woodwards improved the area to the west of Woodwards, not to the east. I worked at SFU downtown (which has campuses at Harbor Centre and Woodwards so I'd walk back and forth a lot) before and after it was built and it was night and day. Then I got a job at Main and Alexander, which is the same as it ever was.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by logan5

It's not all about the Benjamins, but it doesn't hurt.

More importantly though, the 1000's of new residents that will occupy the Viaduct Lands will reignite our oldest and greatest neighbourhood - the DTES. This neighbourhood is destined to be the cultural heart of our city, in large part because of the viaduct removal.

The Bonaventure (elevated) Expressway in Montreal is being torn down, with a wide blvd to replace it. A bit longer than the Georgia Viaduct, the cost of this project will be 141 million$. Probly a good cost estimate for the viaduct replacement here.

Is it more important though?

Is providing space for a few thousand fairly wealthy people to buy investment condos really more important than providing mobility to the residents of the entire region?

Is providing space for a few thousand fairly wealthy people to buy investment condos really more important than than directly spending on the residents of the DTES to improve their condition?


Now, I know we are in some kind of war against the car, but keep in mind, there are actual companies that make money from people driving downtown.

It's a great philosophy to just make people drive less, but it does impact our economy in some ways: from construction that is partially financed by assumed future parking revenue, to companies that rely on the employment of affluent workers that prefer to drive. Just assuming that tax revenue from some high end condos will offset the intrinsic and actual losses suffered from the Viaducts removal is foolhardy.

It's also callous to assume planting well off people into a poor neighborhood is automatically going to improve poor people's lives. Having rich people nearby doesn't lift people out of poverty. It only puts pressure on the places they live/stay/visit to shift to cater to higher end clients to make more money. Residents of the DTES will only be forced out, and the problem will continue to move 1 block east at a time.

Woodwards did a good job of cleaning up the area, if you mean by cleaning up the area it forced everyone that was there to the other side of Abbott street in pretty much the exact same condition.

Have you ever seen the people on Hastings between Main and Abbott? I've always wondered what their problem was. Why are they there? What is keeping them from reaching their dreams? I didn't realize it was the viaducts all this time.

[CanSpice]

I can't wait for the viaducts to come down so I don't have to read such insane hyperbole anymore.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I can't wait for the viaducts to come down so I don't have to read such insane hyperbole anymore.

Which is more of an exaggeration?

That removing the viaducts will deter people from driving downtown which can impact businesses, or

That removing the viaducts will move thousands of new people into the area and thus "reignite" the DTES?

Originally Posted by logan5

More importantly though, the 1000's of new residents that will occupy the Viaduct Lands will reignite our oldest and greatest neighbourhood - the DTES. This neighbourhood is destined to be the cultural heart of our city, in large part because of the viaduct removal.

Like it would be a miracle. Literally. If the viaducts come down and the DTES became the cultural heart of our city, it would be a literal miracle because the hand of God would need to be involved.

Unless by "reignite" he means gentrify, and all the homeless people just move and are homeless somewhere else. Then yeah, that might happen. And I ask, is that what's most important?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Which is more of an exaggeration?

That removing the viaducts will deter people from driving downtown which can impact businesses, or

That removing the viaducts will move thousands of new people into the area and thus "reignite" the DTES?

Both of them are full of hyperbole. What actually happens will be a little from column A, a little from column B, and other effects that nobody can foresee.

It's not going to result in traffic armageddon. It's not going to result in lower traffic leading to business armageddon. It's not going to radically revitalize the DTES. It's not going to turn the False Creek Flats into a yuppie utopia. It'll do a little bit of all of the above.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I can't wait for the viaducts to come down so I don't have to read such insane hyperbole anymore.

I can't wait for the viaducts to remain undisturbed so I don't have to read such insane hyperbole anymore.

Yesterday at 6pm I saw the Dunsmuir viaduct backed up with traffic from Beatty street. Interesting that it is rush hour time and yet so many vehicles enter downtown on the viaduct alone. So much for the under-usage of the viaducts, which is itself a hyperbole.

[jlousa]

Weird I thought council hadn't predecided the fate of the viaducts... yet we have their removal coming up on the agenda of two different committees.

Vancouver city Planning Sept 23

4. BUSINESS MEETING
1:25pm
a)Heritage Action Plan Advisory Committee
M. Carter
b)VCPC Standing Committee
D. Bauer
c)Planning/Development Milestones Chronology
R. Matas
d)Viaducts Removal
Manager
e)Waterfront Hub Framework
N/ LaMontagne
f)Fall Dialogue Events
A. Johal et al.

http://vancouver.ca/docs/council/vcpc20150923ag.pdf

And Active Transportation also on Sept 23

6. Subcommittee Updates
(a)Projects Subcommittee Update
(i)After the Viaducts
(motion for consideration)

http://vancouver.ca/docs/council/atpc20150923ag.pdf

[red-paladin]

e)Waterfront Hub Framework

That's more promising

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Weird I thought council hadn't predecided the fate of the viaducts... yet we have their removal coming up on the agenda of two different committees.

Vancouver city Planning Sept 23



http://vancouver.ca/docs/council/vcpc20150923ag.pdf

And Active Transportation also on Sept 23



http://vancouver.ca/docs/council/atpc20150923ag.pdf

Hahahahaha, just like the Hornby street bike lane construction starting 12 hours after council approved it, this is a foregone conclusion.

[s211]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

Hahahahaha, just like the Hornby street bike lane construction starting 12 hours after council approved it, this is a foregone conclusion.

Funny, I'm not laughing.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by s211

Funny, I'm not laughing.

Indeed. When is the next election again... we need a local government that cares more for the people in this city instead of pandering to developers.

[trofirhen]

Gregor and the developer(s) in the sauna together .... again?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Indeed. When is the next election again... we need a local government that cares more for the people in this city instead of pandering to developers.

We just had one. The viaduct removal plan has been on Vision's radar for years. We've had 2 elections and they got re-elected twice. Majority rules, get over it.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

We just had one. The viaduct removal plan has been on Vision's radar for years. We've had 2 elections and they got re-elected twice.

Good point. It's been clear for some time now that Vision was going to take down the viaducts if given the chance to do so. We gave them the chance and there's no point in complaining about it now.

[trofirhen]

^Correct.

Now the emphasis should be on making sure that whatever they replace it with, both the "super road" and the intersections, is efficient and good.

[AverageJoe]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

^Correct.

Now the emphasis should be on making sure that whatever they replace it with, both the "super road" and the intersections, is efficient and good.

As a resident of the area (a block away from the viaducts) I'm dreading the "super road." It'll be a much bigger obstacle than the viaducts ever will be. It's already a 6-lane highway if you combine Expo and Pacific Blvds.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by AverageJoe

As a resident of the area (a block away from the viaducts) I'm dreading the "super road." It'll be a much bigger obstacle than the viaducts ever will be. It's already a 6-lane highway if you combine Expo and Pacific Blvds.

As a resident a couple of blocks away from the viaducts, I'm planning to move. (Although, to be fair, I was planning to move anyway; this just moves the schedule forward a bit.)

[rxp]

Any updates on when it will come to council?

Any new docs? renderings?