Salt Lake MSA Development Thread

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

That's really awesome, thanks for sharing. Speaking of Park City...

I just got back from Colorado. I was surprised to see how many resort towns had their own commercial airport. Vail-Eagle, Steamboat Springs, Telluride, Aspen, Durango, all had their very own airport with commercial airline service. I know Denver is a distance away from those resorts but I was impressed how they can all support commercial air traffic.

With that, what are the possibilities of Park City ever getting their own airport? I'm not too familiar of how the geographical layout of that area is but I could see Park City having non-stop flights to a few places like Denver, Los Angeles, and Chicago. Also, I know that there a many people who vacation just up in Park City itself.

I think Salt Lake and Park City are too close together for each to have their own airports. What we really need is to have a frontrunner type train going up Parleys.

[wrendog]

Park City is way to close to SLC to demand it's own airport. In fact, Park City is about the exact distance from SLC that Vail is from it's airport in Eagle.

Also, those 49th Street Galleria (or 49th Street Diarrhea as my mom called it for some weird reason) pics are sure bringing back nostalgic memories.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

That's really awesome, thanks for sharing. Speaking of Park City...

I just got back from Colorado. I was surprised to see how many resort towns had their own commercial airport. Vail-Eagle, Steamboat Springs, Telluride, Aspen, Durango, all had their very own airport with commercial airline service. I know Denver is a distance away from those resorts but I was impressed how they can all support commercial air traffic.

With that, what are the possibilities of Park City ever getting their own airport? I'm not too familiar of how the geographical layout of that area is but I could see Park City having non-stop flights to a few places like Denver, Los Angeles, and Chicago. Also, I know that there a many people who vacation just up in Park City itself.

Heber City airport is essentially Park City's airport as that is where a lot of the celebrities fly in.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Heber City airport is essentially Park City's airport as that is where a lot of the celebrities fly in.

Could the Heber City airport be updated to allow it to have commercial airline service?

[delts145]

^^^

I don't know how much sense it would make for Park City or Heber to have a commercial airport though. I mean, Denver's main airport is a good 3-4-7 or more hours from it's major resorts. Salt Lake International is only 35 minutes or less. And now Provo is coming on stronger each year, with non stops to the West Coast, etc., and it's very close proximity can easily handle Sundance Resort or any future resorts built in the Southern Metro Mountains.

[Future Mayor]

It was already summed up pretty nicely. PC is already so close to two airports with commercial service that I don't think it makes sense.

PC to SLI - 36.8 miles.
PC to Provo MA - 49 miles.

I think with an international/major hub airport within less than 40 miles I don't really see PC having the need to for a commercial airport or for Heber Airport starting to offer commercial flights. After all, SLI, and Provo Municipal are further apart at 50.2 miles than PC is to either of those two airports.


I too had a lot of memory comes crashing back into my head when I look at those 49th Street Galleria photos. So many good times were had there.

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

What we really need is to have a frontrunner type train going up Parleys.

I have heard others mention this but chances of it happening are nill. The other canyons perhaps as light rail is at least an option being studied, but getting heavy rail over parleys would turn a 30 minute drive or a 70 minute bus ride into a 3 hour+ excursion. Heavy rail over passes like Parleys is not the best way. Rail works best on long straightaways with minimal grades.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

So weird that every business that came in after the Fun Dome closed failed.

Thats because everyone one of them up untill now was the same guy who owned the fun dome.

[Future Mayor]

I just read about the historic reuse of a former Gym in the Jefferson neighborhood up in Ogden and it got me thinking about the former Granite High building.

An adaptive reuse that I visited while I was living in Cleveland was called the West Tech Lofts. It was a former three story High School with a two story gymnasium that the developer had converted into luxury apartments, the gymnasium space was converted into two story town homes because it had the available height to do so. One cool feature is that the halls of the building are the original halls of the school, including the lockers, and the doors to the units were the original classroom doors.

I think this would be a fantastic adaptive reuse of Granite High. I would allow SSL to ad more housing, and a somewhat cool/trendy type of housing that could bring a younger crowd into the city, while maintaining the historic building that was such a huge part of the cities past.

While West Tech was a very cool concept, I had heard from several people that had lived there that it was executed poorly, but others loved it. Obviously there are lessons to be learned but those lessons could great a better product for Granite Lofts.

Here are just a couple of pics of West Tech in Cleveland.

[RC14]

Originally Posted by wrendog

Park City is way to close to SLC to demand it's own airport. In fact, Park City is about the exact distance from SLC that Vail is from it's airport.

Or Denver from it's airport. That thing is in the middle of nowhere.

[SLC Projects]

What is your favorite TODs so far along the Trax/Frontrunner lines that isn't downtown?

For me, there's been a few that have disappoint so far while others I think could be somthing great. Here is my list of some TODs that I like and others that need to get their act together.

My favorite so far....
Fairbourne Station West Valley City
http://www.fairbournestation.com/vision_master-plan.php
This isn't a bias since I just so happen to live down the street from this area. But over the years I have seen a lot of change around that area around City Hall and the Mall with light rail going in, MAX up and down 3500 south, open green space, the 7-story hotel that was built right up to the sidewalk of 35th as well as the new urban style apartments going up, and the soon to break ground on a four level parking garage next to the new housing.
http://synd.yardi.com/wp-content/upl...-salt-lake.jpg
The new 7-story Embassy Hotel has given West Valley it's own little skyline and has made that area real like a little Urban downtown area. My only dislike so far with the overall development would be the parking lot to the west of the hotel. Wish it would of been underground or a parking garage. But other then that, I'm loving this development.

My next favorite would be....
Fireclay Murray
Much like the Fairbourne Station we are seeing buildings being build right up to the sidewalk with hidden parking. Right now we are seeing a few housing developments along Main Street that are a mix of Condos, townhouses and apartments. These Urban style buildings are anywhere from 3-5 stories. This otherwise rundown area is starting to show new life with people moving in. Soon a 3-story office building will break ground that will add to Main Street. What I would like to see is some shops opening on Main. My only disappointment with this overall development are the apartments to the west. Not very Urban.
http://www.emg-apts.com/birkhill.htm
I'm a big fan of how the 5-story Birkhill apartments turned out. Right now a 2nd building is going up that will hide the parking garage.

Ok now a TOD that so far has been disappointing.....

Vista Station Draper
From the plans I've seen I was liking the idea of a TOD development that was at a Frontrunner stop that could have a mix use of 10-15 story buildings. So far it's turning out to be just another office park. There's EBay that takes up about half the land with their big ass parking lot that should of been a parking garage to now having two 5-story office buildings that are set up just like an office park with parking lots all around them. Nothing is set up as a Urban setting as of yet for that area. Disappointing.

Ok, so those are my picks. What are some of yours favorite or least favorites?

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

What is your favorite TODs so far along the Trax/Frontrunner lines that isn't downtown?

For me, there's been a few that have disappoint so far while others I think could be somthing great. Here is my list of some TODs that I like and others that need to get their act together.

My favorite so far....
Fairbourne Station West Valley City
http://www.fairbournestation.com/vision_master-plan.php
This isn't a bias since I just so happen to live down the street from this area. But over the years I have seen a lot of change around that area around City Hall and the Mall with light rail going in, MAX up and down 3500 south, open green space, the 7-story hotel that was built right up to the sidewalk of 35th as well as the new urban style apartments going up, and the soon to break ground on a four level parking garage next to the new housing.
http://synd.yardi.com/wp-content/upl...-salt-lake.jpg
The new 7-story Embassy Hotel has given West Valley it's own little skyline and has made that area real like a little Urban downtown area. My only dislike so far with the overall development would be the parking lot to the west of the hotel. Wish it would of been underground or a parking garage. But other then that, I'm loving this development.

I agree that Fairbourne is already looking like the best, and there's the most potential for growth there. They seem to be putting all of the pieces into place--retail, residential, commercial, civic--and doing it in a way that keeps the good parts of the community that were already there active, and builds on them. I've said this before, but I think pre-Valley Fair's revamp, I hadn't been there in ten years. Or more. Now with the restaurant options and the new theater built into the east side, I've been there several times in the last year, even if it's not on a regular basis.

There's still that massive block of ugly retail, Staples and Toys R Us that lie between Valley Fair Mall and Fairbourne Station proper--it'd be great to see that broken up (along with the parking lot that's there) and redesigned in a more urban format, with better sightlines for the residential, hotel and other pieces.

I'm also wondering if the existing City Hall and library were going to be changed/upgraded at all--that's a tiny library to be WVC's central location, and as Fairbourne grows, that has the potential to become a real civic center for the residents. And the needs of the WVC government and police outgrew that facility decades ago--I know it's hard to swallow a bond to build something better, but it would ultimately benefit the city if they did.

So yeah. Fairbourne Station.

I still have high hopes for Central Pointe -- in between the location and the convergence of four different rail lines (including the Sugarhouse Streetcar in that), it just makes sense to have more retail, more residential there. Hopefully South Salt Lake can figure that out.

I'm also still surprised that more hasn't happened for the Ball Park station. There's been a retail flowering along 300 West just north of there, but I wouldn't call that TOD.

[Stenar]

I heard a few years ago that WVC was going to get a new library. That may have been put on hold due to the recession.

Originally Posted by jedikermit

...

I'm also wondering if the existing City Hall and library were going to be changed/upgraded at all--that's a tiny library to be WVC's central location, and as Fairbourne grows, that has the potential to become a real civic center for the residents. And the needs of the WVC government and police outgrew that facility decades ago--I know it's hard to swallow a bond to build something better, but it would ultimately benefit the city if they did.

[jedikermit]

That's what I thought too, Stenar -- with the release of the Fairbourne Station plans, I thought I remember seeing the library and the civic center in a slightly different position, more at the periphery of the complex. Could just be wishful thinking.

[SLC Projects]

My understanding is that there will be a new library, city hall and police station that will be develop on the south side of the over all develop making room for future office buildings to go in place where city hall and police station buildings are now. There's two buildings west of the library that are closed and fenced off. Guessing those buildings will be coming down soon to make way for the new buildings.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by brankrom

I have heard others mention this but chances of it happening are nill. The other canyons perhaps as light rail is at least an option being studied, but getting heavy rail over parleys would turn a 30 minute drive or a 70 minute bus ride into a 3 hour+ excursion. Heavy rail over passes like Parleys is not the best way. Rail works best on long straightaways with minimal grades.

The I-80 corridor through Parley's canyon is built on top of the old route of the Rio Grande's Park City Branch, which was abandoned sometime in the 40's or 50's. Granted it was a narrow guage line and also granted it was much slower and curvier than the interstate, can you imagine the potential if such a line were to exist today?
The new S Line is all that remains of this rail corridor today.
Passenger trains can climb some pretty steep grades. Look at Trax to the university or Frontrunner at either the Ogden or South Jordan flyover bridges. In the far, far future I think it is inevitable that some kind of fixed-guideway high-speed Frontrunner/Trax hybred transit link is constructed parallel to I-80.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

My understanding is that there will be a new library, city hall and police station that will be develop on the south side of the over all develop making room for future office buildings to go in place where city hall and police station buildings are now. There's two buildings west of the library that are closed and fenced off. Guessing those buildings will be coming down soon to make way for the new buildings.

That's what I was thinking too. That would make sense.

[jedikermit]

If you like stuff getting torn down, here's a nice little news story for you:

http://fox13now.com/2014/01/29/forme...-for-dillards/

MURRAY, Utah — A big reconstruction project is now underway at Fashion Place Mall in Murray.
Demolition started Wednesday on the former Sears building, which has been vacant for almost a year. A new Dillard’s will be built in the space after demolition is complete.
The new store is going to be about 200,000 square feet, which is about 20,000 square feet larger than the old Dillard’s.
Plans have not been finalized for what will replace the old Dillard’s at Fashion Place. The current Dillard’s will remain open until construction on the new building is complete in spring 2015.

[delts145]

Here's The Deseret News story this morning about that:

Sears store at Fashion Place demolished to make way for new Dillard's





Deseret News - Emilee Eager

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...-Dillards.html

MURRAY — Shoppers at the Fashion Place Mall heard some rumblings Wednesday as crews demolished the Sears department store.

The store was razed to make way for a newer and bigger site for Dillard's, which will be moving from the north to the south end of the mall.

"Economic impact is going to be all pluses for us," said Tim Tingey, director of administrative and development services for Murray.

The new Dillard's is scheduled to move into the new 200,000-square-foot building — about a 20,000-square-foot expansion — in the spring of 2015. Tingey said the store will be a "strong anchor" for the mall and the community.

"It will enhance our tax base. It will enhance our sales tax revenue. It will provide great amenities for our community as far as the shopping opportunities," Tingey said. "We couldn’t be happier with some of the changes that are occurring over there."

Celeste Dorris, general manager of Fashion Place, said the new store will not only be larger but will have an improved store design and technology. "Fashion Place is a successful shopping center, and Dillard's has done really well here," she said.

Macy's closed its doors at the mall earlier this month. The Container Store will fill the 25,000-square-foot space sometime in the fall, Dorris said.

"All of these things are part of a strategic vision for the property to make sure that we're keeping things fresh and new for consumers," she said. "It's all been very intentional and strategic on our part to make sure we're addressing the needs of our consumers."

Tingey said the Container Store will be a strong addition for the mall. He said there are negotiations to fill the north Dillard's location when it moves next year.

Overall, Dorris said, sales have been going well for the mall over the past few years.

"That's one of the reasons why we've seen so much interest from retailers coming in from other markets for the first time in Utah, like the Container Store," she said...

...Chaftang said American Eagle will also be renovating. On Sunday, the store will move to another site in the mall for eight weeks before moving back. She, too, expects the Dillard's presence at the south end of the mall will increase traffic...

.

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by Hatman

The I-80 corridor through Parley's canyon is built on top of the old route of the Rio Grande's Park City Branch, which was abandoned sometime in the 40's or 50's. Granted it was a narrow guage line and also granted it was much slower and curvier than the interstate, can you imagine the potential if such a line were to exist today?
The new S Line is all that remains of this rail corridor today.
Passenger trains can climb some pretty steep grades. Look at Trax to the university or Frontrunner at either the Ogden or South Jordan flyover bridges. In the far, far future I think it is inevitable that some kind of fixed-guideway high-speed Frontrunner/Trax hybred transit link is constructed parallel to I-80.

I didn't say a train couldn't run up Parleys, I just said its not efficient and the chances of it happening are nil. There's no way a train can pull 55 mph speeds up parleys and maintain them on the downhill side dropping into Park City like a bus can. Also justifying the capital expense of construction and the cost of acquiring ROW, plus dealing with the NIMBYs in Park City and Canyon Rim area. All that to serve a city with a current population of 7800 people? Sure there is seasonal population boom but enough to justify the expense? Not going to happen. The front range has some excursion trains to the ski resorts but the infrastructure was never removed.

I'd like to see viable rail alternatives as much as anyone but the key word is viable. In an alternate reality where money and time don't exist I could see a train possibly getting to the Winter Olympic Park or the Outlet malls but what's the point? But actually getting a train into central PC?