Rapid Transit

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I just hope that the city takes an agressive approach on approvals for new developments. Even financial incentives.

It does concern me a bit that we haven't heard any plan for redeveloping the future vacant lots. Maybe I'm wrong? Is there any documents showing a concrete plan in place?

I can't even find a conclusive list of property requirements, yet alone plans on what to do with them afterwards.

I know the City was planning to upzone along the LRT, but that plan has been put on hold after the LRT got cancelled.

I imagine the province will implement a similar program to their transit oriented communities program in Toronto in Hamilton, albeit on a smaller scale, doing all the rezoning themselves via MZOs, then selling them off with affordable housing requirements.

A lot of their transit oriented communities for the OL are far denser than what the city would want, and rightfully so.

and yea, a ton of King St is going to get demolished for the LRT. the worst spot is around the rail-rail grade separation near Gage Park, they are taking out basically several blocks along the north side of King St for it. Basically the entire north side from Gage Avenue to Glendale Avenue.

[LikeHamilton]

From the latest Metrolinx email

Upcoming Corridor Demolitions

Two commercial buildings purchased by Metrolinx to build the Hamilton LRT project will be demolished beginning the week of September 27 at the corner of Main Street East and Kenilworth Avenue. Work will take approximately four weeks to complete.

No road closures are anticipated, though lane restrictions around the work site will be required. Pedestrian access will be maintained with a temporary protected sidewalk.

[johnnyhamont]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

From the latest Metrolinx email

Is there a way to access that information online so I can share a link with others?

[LikeHamilton]

Originally Posted by johnnyhamont

Is there a way to access that information online so I can share a link with others?

It's on Metrolinx's web site.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I can't even find a conclusive list of property requirements, yet alone plans on what to do with them afterwards.

I know the City was planning to upzone along the LRT, but that plan has been put on hold after the LRT got cancelled.

I imagine the province will implement a similar program to their transit oriented communities program in Toronto in Hamilton, albeit on a smaller scale, doing all the rezoning themselves via MZOs, then selling them off with affordable housing requirements.

A lot of their transit oriented communities for the OL are far denser than what the city would want, and rightfully so.

and yea, a ton of King St is going to get demolished for the LRT. the worst spot is around the rail-rail grade separation near Gage Park, they are taking out basically several blocks along the north side of King St for it. Basically the entire north side from Gage Avenue to Glendale Avenue.

The city has already completed the Transit oriented corridor upzoning along the entirety of the corridor. This was done first before construction so we can get a KW style construction boom along the corridor.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

The city has already completed the Transit oriented corridor upzoning along the entirety of the corridor. This was done first before construction so we can get a KW style construction boom along the corridor.

Thanks. Looking at that, it's minimal density really. That as of right height is going to have to be doubled if the city truly wants to maximize the investment in the LRT and eliminate expanding the urban boundary.

I fully expect Metrolinx and the province to push for more than 6 storeys on expropriated sites. Also for some reason a lot of the corridor is zoned for residential only and doesn't permit retail at grade.. even in areas with existing commercial storefronts.

Some of the setback requirements are ridiculous as well considering the tight sites that the zoning covers.

[SteelTown]

From my understanding, Hughson St from King to the GO Station will be pedestrianized. Is there anything that details the plans for Hughson St? I hope they include a canopy or anything to help block the rain or snow.


https://www.insauga.com/final-remind...l-transit-lrt/


Something like this would be nice, and probably inexpensive compared to the cost of the entire project.


https://poligon.com/products/cantilevered-walkway/


https://poligon.com/products/transit-gallery/

[Innsertnamehere]

It won’t be pedestrianized, just “improved” with widened sidewalks and will be a cobble street sort of similar to Ferguson.

[SteelTown]

Ok, will the sidewalks be covered? It would be nice to have a canopy to be protected from the external environment.

If this was being done in Toronto it would have been built underground and part of PATH. So I don't know why we aren't taking the same serious initiative in reducing the burden of public transit. No doubt there will be many people using Hughson St once the B-Line is up and running and simply building wider sidewalks isn't going to be enough.

[mishap]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

It won’t be pedestrianized, just “improved” with widened sidewalks and will be a cobble street sort of similar to Ferguson.

The Hughson Street idea isn't new. A more modest version was proposed by a planning student back in 1997. It just shows that we've been talking about downtown growth. GO expansion and higher-order transit for at least that long.

[matt602]

Would be pretty awesome if it were built underground with an exit into the lower level of the GO station, subway style entrances like the old washrooms at Gore Park and connections to Jackson Square/FOC/Farmers Market/etc in the West. I'm dreaming at this point but Hamilton could have a really cool underground shopping concourse with that sort of design some day with the LRT line directly on top.

[Markus83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Ok, will the sidewalks be covered? It would be nice to have a canopy to be protected from the external environment.

If this was being done in Toronto it would have been built underground and part of PATH. So I don't know why we aren't taking the same serious initiative in reducing the burden of public transit. No doubt there will be many people using Hughson St once the B-Line is up and running and simply building wider sidewalks isn't going to be enough.

Spot on!

[Rg2016]

Originally Posted by matt602

Would be pretty awesome if it were built underground with an exit into the lower level of the GO station, subway style entrances like the old washrooms at Gore Park and connections to Jackson Square/FOC/Farmers Market/etc in the West. I'm dreaming at this point but Hamilton could have a really cool underground shopping concourse with that sort of design some day with the LRT line directly on top.

It should be underground starting from victoria to hess street, to respect the traffic..

P.s. and BUSINESSES!

[ScreamingViking]

The underground pedestrian networks in Toronto and Montreal work because their downtowns have such a high density of employment (and in normal times they're quite busy during the workday; quite hollow and empty at night and on weekends though).

I don't think Hamilton will have enough of that kind of demand for a long long time, if ever, to make even a smallish "underground" feasible. And there's plenty of space for retail in existing buildings, new condo towers, and whatever becomes of Jackson Square. Some of the street retail has started to come back over the past 10-20 years after downtown bottomed out and the malls had sucked the life out of the streets... a new competitor would just be another body blow, wouldn't it?

I think if anything is going to get buried, it should be general purpose road lanes. That would preserve automobile flow, and keep the transit and the pedestrians on the surface. Most cities that have done this did so to maintain the auto traffic flow (Montreal for example; Washington DC is another, and many of that city's "circles" have an underpass). But it would be a huge expense, and whether its time savings benefits would be worthwhile given the many arterials that are wider than needed today is a good question.

It would be nice to have some kind of awning system down Hughson. The big dream would be a completely covered street under a glass vault or canopy, but it's probably cost-prohibitive. Or maybe it's a future project.

[Beedok]

Once Hamilton gets a bit more density downtown an indoor city option would start to make sense. Winnipeg isn’t that much bigger than Hamilton and has a mixture of tunnels and pedestrian bridges connecting up a good chunk of it’s downtown. But it’s also more centralized and lacks the competition for commercial foot traffic that is Toronto an hour away.

[Innsertnamehere]

I don't think Hamilton needs an indoor option expanded. It's too small of a city and it's better to direct pedestrian traffic to the sidewalks which are already too quiet.

Hamilton arguably has a small indoor network already, with the arena, Jackson Square, City Centre, multiple office buildings, Sheraton, Art Gallery, Convention Centre, etc. all connected indoors. In a way I'm almost surprised Commerce Place and the Sir Isaac Brock Building aren't connected in to the network.

The most I would want to see is a covered connection along Hughson.

Winnipeg also has a far, far, far colder climate. Most winter days going forward in Hamilton will hover slightly above the freezing mark, while they sit solidly into the -20's on a typical January day in Winnipeg.

Hamilton is actually the second-warmest winter climate of any Canadian city outside of BC, behind only Windsor. Winters really aren't anything crazy and I don't think we need to protect from them to the same extent cities like Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg do.

Toronto needs it's network less for climate if you ask me outside of a handful of days a year, but more for pedestrian volumes. At least pre-pandemic, the amount of people flowing into Union Station at 5pm is so great that they literally wouldn't fit on the sidewalks. The PATH is needed to accommodate the literal thousands of people flowing down Bay / York / Yonge St. Union Station is literally the busiest rail station on the continent and was growing rapidly in pedestrian volumes up until the pandemic, the pedestrian flows to the station are insane on a normal weekday.


If anything needs to be buried, It's the LRT through downtown in order to improve travel times. I think Hamilton would have been a great candidate for a light-metro system running in a mix of tunnels in the downtown and elevated / trenched sections further out (sort of like we could have gotten in the 1980's), but that ship has sort of sailed.


Also, we have to remember the Hughson connection to Hamilton GO is serving only some off peak bus routes and a handful of peak hour trains. It's not going to be a super busy route throughout the day, with all day service running out of West Harbour.

[Berklon]

I agree that an underground solution for Hamilton is overkill. Not just today, but even in the future.

A covered outdoor solution would be fine. I also think it would be a good idea for the city to plan more skywalks downtown. The city could give builders an incentive to incorporate them into their construction. It doesn't have to be large or extravagant, but it would be convenient for the people living and working downtown. Something like what Calgary has in place. This isn't really rapid transit related though.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I agree that an underground solution for Hamilton is overkill. Not just today, but even in the future.

A covered outdoor solution would be fine. I also think it would be a good idea for the city to plan more skywalks downtown. The city could give builders an incentive to incorporate them into their construction. It doesn't have to be large or extravagant, but it would be convenient for the people living and working downtown. Something like what Calgary has in place.

What? functionally that's the same as underground connections.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Toronto needs it's network less for climate if you ask me outside of a handful of days a year, but more for pedestrian volumes. At least pre-pandemic, the amount of people flowing into Union Station at 5pm is so great that they literally wouldn't fit on the sidewalks. The PATH is needed to accommodate the literal thousands of people flowing down Bay / York / Yonge St. Union Station is literally the busiest rail station on the continent and was growing rapidly in pedestrian volumes up until the pandemic, the pedestrian flows to the station are insane on a normal weekday.

This is quite true. When I worked downtown, I tried to stay at street level when the weather was good or at least dry, but at some intersections the crowds were immense, even with the numbers of people getting to Union via the PATH. I specifically tailored my work arrival and departure times to avoid the worst of the crowds (as well as the worst of the crowded trains)

There used to be some really congested choke points but they've largely been removed, especially at the subway. Before all the renos there were only a couple of narrow entry points between the train and subway stations (and especially during the renos, when corridors were closed off for construction), but walking through it a few weeks ago it looks like it should really be a breeze once the pedestrian numbers come back again.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Once Hamilton gets a bit more density downtown an indoor city option would start to make sense. Winnipeg isn’t that much bigger than Hamilton and has a mixture of tunnels and pedestrian bridges connecting up a good chunk of it’s downtown. But it’s also more centralized and lacks the competition for commercial foot traffic that is Toronto an hour away.

Both Saint John and Halifax have extensive Pedway (PATH-esque) systems in their downtowns. Be wary, though; they take a lot of foot traffic off of streets, and will make streets and the downtown look much quieter than they actually are. Great in the winter for getting around downtown, though.

It would be nice if Hughson were pedestrianized, though. I don't think it serves much of a purpose that isn't already covered by James, John, and Jackson and would provide a nice landing spot for those arriving by bus or train.