DENVER | Transportation Thread

[Cirrus]

In this case, yes I think so. If I'm going to include the rail lines at all, then I think they all need to be there. People are used to thinking of the FasTracks system as a network, and it would be confusing to see only part of it. The big benefit of a map like this is to help people think of a handful of bus routes as being part of the same regional network that they're used to thinking of already, so screwing with the "existing" well-known network would be counterproductive.

I could just punt and leave off the rail lines (which I did for DC), but then you're looking at a much more limited network.

[bunt_q]

Yeah I guess I'd leave them all too. If nothing else, the station infrastructure that even a mediocre rail line will get will likely make the passenger experience such that a 15 train wait will feel a lot like a 7.5 minute bus wait.

[bcp]

is FastConnects still on the table for RTD? When the plan came out, they called for having improved bus-to-bus, bus-to-rail and rail-to-bus stations with timed connections...it also clearly called for straightening out many of the RTD lines so that when you hop on you, you know where you are going easily (a big challenge with many of our routes)

Dan i think what you have there is pretty awesome....and with the train lines on there, it really highlights the need to adjust / extend a few lines to easily intersect with train stations.

[Cirrus]

OK, new version of the GIS map. This removes the 79/83, adds the DUS connection to the US36 BRT, and adds additional information on where frequent bus routes go when they split into non-frequent spurs. I won't show all the details on the non-frequent spurs, but will at least need to have arrows or something indicating that the routes don't simply end when they split.

At this point, I think I'm ready to move to Illustrator and start diagramming.

[bcp]

what exactly are you going to diagram? this is cool...but just curious...a proposal to adjust bus routes? - thanks for the effort.

[Cirrus]

I want to make a system map like you would see hanging in a train station, that includes both FasTracks and the frequent bus network. Something like this map I did for DC buses, only the Denver version will have rail too.

[Cirrus]

Eric Miller, who has sometimes posted on the forum in the past, put up this picture on facebook of him unsuccessfully trying his Seattle smartcard on the new RTD smartcard reader at Mineral light rail station.

The key news is that apparently there are now smartcard readers at some RTD light rail stations.

Maybe the rest of you already knew.

[Cirrus]

Apparently the RTD smartcard will be called "MyRide". Also something the rest of you probably already knew.

RTD smartcard page

[bunt_q]

Yeah it's a pilot program. Only at 8 stations and only for existing ecopass or college pass holders. In other words, not a farecard per se, and not a solution at all for cash riders (yet...they'll get there, fingers crossed).

[PLANSIT]

MyRide starts for Ecopass riders in January. I've seen the card readers on several buses around town.

[bunt_q]

I won't consider it groundbreaking until it starts including people who actually have to do something to ride. At this point it's just a fancy tracking mechanism. We are going from a rider waving a pass and a bus driver pushing a button, to now a rider just waving a pass. I want to see RTD figure out how to subtract dollar and cents more intelligently than, say, light rail messaging signs that are nothing more than a light up version of a paper schedule, and are wrong the instant there's any special service. Can't tell you how many times I've gotten on a ghost C train on a weekend or evening that wasn't supposed to exist per the sign.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I won't consider it groundbreaking until it starts including people who actually have to do something to ride. At this point it's just a fancy tracking mechanism. We are going from a rider waving a pass and a bus driver pushing a button, to now a rider just waving a pass. I want to see RTD figure out how to subtract dollar and cents more intelligently than, say, light rail messaging signs that are nothing more than a light up version of a paper schedule, and are wrong the instant there's any special service. Can't tell you how many times I've gotten on a ghost C train on a weekend or evening that wasn't supposed to exist per the sign.

When I was in Chicago last year visiting my cousin, we only rode public transit and she had a card that when swiped/scanned it took it right out of her bank account. And it was the same case with my friend I met in NYC right after Chicago. It was seriously 10 days of public-transit-what-Denver-should-be-doing amazingness. The MTA/CTA have this down to an art.

[wong21fr]

Bunt, here's the answer to your lamentations.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Here's a few more RTD tidbits:

For Bunt (as he's bitched about these in the past):

1) RTD will have credit card ticket purchases in 2Q 2013.
2) Smart cards will roll out by the end of this year (being printed right now for Ecopasses and college passes) with the elimination of all paper tickets by the end of 2013.
3) Implementation of Real Time Passenger Information on busses in 2014 and rail in 2015. Radio location systems are currently being installed on the bus fleet.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Bunt, here's the answer to your lamentations.

That's the plan, not the answer. Remember how late the first batch of passenger information messaging signs were at the rail stations?

It's all low hanging fruit right now. Like I said, I'll be impressed when they roll out smart cards that actually hold money. Doing a pilot program that only includes passes...not even experimenting with pre-paid...frankly, concerns me. But I am hopeful.

Let me add, I don't feel like I'm being unreasonable here. If I'm beating a dead horse and repeatedly complaining about the same stuff, it's because I find it simply unacceptable that it's taken this long already. It's not even new technology. I am not asking RTD to be cutting edge; I'm asking for them to be at least average.

[CPVLIVE]

All part of the same plan - just being rolled out in phases. The MyRide cards will function as expected - they can be loaded and re-loaded with cash.

I set-up all of the smart-card (ECO) passes for my company just last week - we're ready to receive them soon.

RTD will make their big announcement sometime early next year as alluded to on their webpage posted by Cirrus

http://www.rtd-denver.com/SM_Main.shtml

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

That's the plan, not the answer. Remember how late the first batch of passenger information messaging signs were at the rail stations?

It's all low hanging fruit right now. Like I said, I'll be impressed when they roll out smart cards that actually hold money. Doing a pilot program that only includes passes...not even experimenting with pre-paid...frankly, concerns me. But I am hopeful.

Let me add, I don't feel like I'm being unreasonable here. If I'm beating a dead horse and repeatedly complaining about the same stuff, it's because I find it simply unacceptable that it's taken this long already. It's not even new technology. I am not asking RTD to be cutting edge; I'm asking for them to be at least average.

It may be just the plan, but it does answer you complaints. Stored value cards and the elimination of paper tickets for the bus system is clearly stated as being the third phase for the Smart Care roll-out in Fall 2013. The PO for new smart card dispensers has been issued and they will be installed in grocery stores and convenience stores throughout the metro area early next year.

It may not be in a very reasonable time on the passenger information systems, but it will get there. Which is pretty typical for RTD. Slow and steady.

Granted, none of it may end up working and all of this will end up being horribly delayed. You're the lawyer, you should know that a contract doesn't guarantee that what is proposed will actually work it's been implemented. Failure to meet contractual obligations (realistic or not) is a major reason for your profession.

[Zmapper]

Transfort in Fort Collins installed smart card readers on all 34 of their buses. Currently, only the CSU students with university-issued passes use them, while the other riders have to use flash passes.

[Zmapper]

Cirrus, Englewood has the ART shuttle, which operates every 15 minutes, but the route only operates between 6 am and 6:30 pm. However, all bus stops on the route save for the east loop do have night and weekend replacement service on Route 12. Personally, I would include it on the map with a note explaining that passengers should use Route 12 outside of M-F daytime, but as it is your map it is up to you, of course.

[Cirrus]

Tough call. My inclination is to leave it off, because I don't think you can call something with no evening or weekend service a major route. There are a lot of other RTD routes that have 15-minute frequency part of the time. I'm also not including Boulder's Community Transit Network, which has some 15-minute routes (simply because it's a lot of work and Boulder may as well have a separate map), nor the FlatIron Crossing Zip tram (does that thing even still exist?).

How about this: I'll add icons in Englewood and Boulder to indicate the presence of a transfer to frequent local circulators.

[Cirrus]

Here's Englewood's Art Shuttle, BTW. I'd never heard of it. I like the stop flag. Wish they included a map.


from dgrinbergs on flickr