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Originally Posted by Jjs5056
For starters, why does a project need to put Phoenix on the national stage to be supported and/or successful?
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I don't know? Why don't you ask the developers and the media who are marketing this "tower" as a potential iconic structure that would put on a national stage?
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056
The Pin would accomplish several things that should be viewed as positives:
1) Adding a structure to our skyline that is unique and distinctive; it would be the 2nd-highest in our city and given that our only other tower under construction is the heinous blue jail known as CityScape, I'm quite excited to see something aside from a box. The Summit, City Hall, The Pin- these are the kinds of buildings we need to break up the monotony.
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We don't need height for the sake of having height. Height does not make a city a city. The tower is hideous and frankly it wouldn't even really serve a purpose other than being some boring tourist destination featuring sweeping views of our dusty, smoggy valley. This is not an out of the box proposal. It has already been labeled Phoenix's version of the Space Needle. There are also similar structures in Dallas and Knoxville. This is a horrific proposal.
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056
2) Creating a destination/"something to do" downtown; I'll always remember the article from a few years back where hotel employees were sending their guests to Tempe and Scottsdale for entertainment. The Pin will give an option for downtown guests, convention visitors, and so on. Is it the most exciting? No. But, downtown Phoenix in general lacks "photo opps" - monuments, murals, etc. At least now, visitors can head to the top and take pictures of the things that DO bring people to Arizona - the mountains and desert landscape - against an urban backdrop. That WILL attract guests. Even if it isn't as successful as, say, the Space Needle, if it keeps people and money in our downtown and moves them closer to other destinations like CityScape, Science Center, Heritage Square, and so on, and encourages exploration of these places, that can only be a good thing.
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This "tower" is not going to keep people downtown. It will be something that locals will do once, then go on to their Suns/DBacks game and never visit again. Visitors will visit for 15 minutes, get bored, and hop in their rental cars to travel to other areas of the Valley. Downtown Phoenix is a lost cause and absolutely nothing can be done to change that. CityScape is a failure, that park with that suspended sculpture thing is a failure, Arizona Center is a continued failure, and whatever other gimmicks that have been employed down there have failed as well. My Christmas visitors noted how dead downtown was during a weekday afternoon and we spent all of 10 minutes there. With this thing, we would have spent 20 minutes down there and then left.
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056
3) Encouraging "buzz" about downtown; someone posted an article that The Pin was featured on an architectural website... If this strcutures gets people talking about our downtown, who cares that the vista might be smoggy every once in a while? Again, will this buzz equal that of other great cities? Likely not. But, it will get our name out there, show that WE are investing in and believe in our central city, and perhaps spark conversation amongst others to make similar investments through more attractions, residential, office, etc.
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Weren't the light rail, CityScape, ASU, and the suspended sculpture supposed to encourage buzz about downtown? I still have no one in my social circle who travels downtown. There's just nothing down there even with these new developments. Developers need to stop throwing these development experiments at the wall trying to see what sticks. Nothing has stuck.
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056
4) More retail downtown will be great. Shopping is one of the top activities travelers engage in and our downtown sorely lacks shopping opportunities. Who knows what kind if retail will end up within The Pin, but it'll be something for shoppers to check out and, once again, move them closer to other shopping centers like CityScape, adding vitality to the streets.
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More retail that will just close up shop after a few months in business? The retail at CityScape is devoid of customers. We have no downtown grocery store because it cannot sustain itself. Restaurants shut down not very long after they open. The Pin is not going to change any of this. It is not going to drag the masses downtown. Urban Outfitters is not going remain downtwn because of this thing. You referred to CityScape as a heinous blue jail, so why would people want to shop there?
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056
The point? This won't be the Space Needle, and it won't bring Phoenix into a category of world class cities. But, the addition of retail, a destination/attraction, unique architecture and so on is a great thing. There's some prime lots in the area awaiting development, and if this kind of investment or buzz gets the ball rolling, even better.
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It will do none of this. This is your sky high dream and you know it. It will be another failed experiment that will face foreclosure before 2020 and will be boarded up by 2025 along with CityScape, which will be completely devoid of tenants by the end of the decade if not sooner.
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056
This city will never be NYC or Seattle. But, if you can't even appreciate our vistas, then why bother? Everyone I know who visits enjoys the beautiful desert landscape and mountains. At the very least, let's not shit on something that will leverage what could be one of our few assets.
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Why bother with what? Are you implying that our supposed vistas are the only thing of value here? I know plenty of people who do love our unique landscape. But to deny that it is shrouded in dust and smog many days is just foolish. I stand by my assertion that this thing will do nothing for downtown Phoenix. I'm sure it will be constructed as planned, city leaders and downtown enthusiasts will claim that it will be impetus that will put Phoenix on a national stage, it will open to long lines and great fanfare, it will be popular for several months before starting to see a steady decline in visitors, then, a couple years later, we will get the nice article from the Arizona Republic and the Phoenix Business Journal about the owners facing bankruptcy and foreclosure, and the thing will fall into disrepair and will be shut down and torn down.