Winnipeg - Of Interest

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

Also, I'm sure the risk of being hassled and fined by cops for enjoying a drink in a public park with your friends is a lot higher if you're black or indigenous.

Totally agree. I would be shocked if that wasn't true.

[zalf]

https://streetmix.net/

Here's a fun little website I came across this evening. It lets you design a cross-section of an urban street. You can also share what you've made to, say, illustrate ones ideas when posting to a popular urbanism forum.

[Ando]

As usual, well written article by Brent Bellamy discussing the success of Calgary and Edmonton urban development strategies and by contrast the lack of success of Winnipeg. One thing that really struck me was the fact that both cities started making investments in light rail over 40 years ago, when they had less than two-thirds of Winnipeg’s population.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/op...574530122.html

[GreyGarden]

I was in awe of some of the stuff listed in that article. Obviously I was way wrong, but it just seems so un-Alberta.

Does anyone who knows more about Alberta than I do have any theories on where the strong political will for progressive urban change has come from? I always think of Alberta as a hyper-conservative place that (perhaps stereotypically) I'd peg amongst the last to adopt anything progressive. I've always seen (perhaps mistakenly) Winnipeg as a much more liberal/progressive place compared to Alberta.

All I can say upon reading that is good for Alberta. Hopefully they keep pushing even with new mayors on the horizon.

[Peggerino]

I was thinking about that too after hearing an interview with Calgary's mayor Naheed Nenshi on The Agenda (great interview by the way). I'm curious how the electorate of a city that didn't elect one non-Conservative to Parliment in 2019 and also votes for Kenney's right wing UCP can also vote for a Nenshi and seemingly make progress where cities like Winnipeg seem to stall. Same thing goes for Edmonton which is more progressive than Calgary but still very conservative compared to Winnipeg I think.

Perhaps it's just stronger municipal politicians in Alberta right now or is it something deeper?

Also, great article as always Brent!

[esquire]

I don't claim any great expertise in Alberta's political culture, but I think it may have had to do with a combination of a few factors:

-the 70s were a boom era for Alberta when it was flush with cash and had tons of money to throw at infrastructure... this may have been the biggest factor
-a more group-oriented way of thinking... many in Alberta's cities were barely removed from farms where collectivism (co-ops, the wheat pools, credit unions) got them through tough times, so they were inclined to look at the greater good
-the political leadership was more of the traditional nation-building conservative rather than the hyper-American pretend-we're-Republican super aggressive identity politics that Alberta is into these days
-in addition, Alberta was growing fast and I'm sure there was a sense that a big city in the making should be doing things like that. Compare with Winnipeg where the prevailing sense in the 80s and 90s was that the city was stagnating and shouldn't really even bother trying anymore.

So there were definitely a lot of factors at play that got LRT built in Alberta's major cities.

[buzzg]

I think the issue is in the word “progressive” itself. That isn’t one all encompassing word that covers all aspects of life, just like left wing or right wing are kind of ridiculous concepts.

I think being “progressive” in civic ways and social ways are completely different. “Conservatives” like things that make good business/economic sense, which a lot of civic progressiveness does. Unfortunately our “P”C government is a group of willfully ignorant idiots.

[Biff]

Esquire, I think your first point is the most accurate. The fact that Albertan's had to basically shovel money from their sidewalks every day in the 80's played a huge part. They were growing so fast they were thinking big...and they had the ability to make that thinking possible (kind of Dubai light).

Look at Winnipeg around 1900, grand big city scale on everything we did. In the later part of the 20th century we had to scratch and claw for even the most basic maintenance and upkeep.

[Peggerino]

So you are saying that mindset has just carried on to today, more or less? What you're saying about Alberta vs. Manitoba in the 70s, 80s and 90s makes sense, but would that explain why nowadays they still seem a bit more forward-thinking than us in a lot of ways?

[Biff]

I think fostering that way of thinking in the 80"s in Alberta has continued a can do attitude to today. They also see the value in transit initiatives, TOD, public infrastructure etc. Starting the LRT 40+ years ago gave them a history of what good transit/transportation can do for a community.

Here in WPG and MB we have the opposite. Years of lack of funding and we can't afford it attitude make thinking big and making it happen difficult. Most here don't think fancy transit will make any difference and they don't want to be taxed to try it.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by Biff

I think fostering that way of thinking in the 80"s in Alberta has continued a can do attitude to today. They also see the value in transit initiatives, TOD, public infrastructure etc. Starting the LRT 40+ years ago gave them a history of what good transit/transportation can do for a community.

Here in WPG and MB we have the opposite. Years of lack of funding and we can't afford it attitude make thinking big and making it happen difficult. Most here don't think fancy transit will make any difference and they don't want to be taxed to try it.

Let's not forget the fact that the cost of capital projects have skyrocketed, even after adjusting for inflation. Requirements and standards have changed since the 1980s, so building the equivalent transit system now would be significantly more expensive, even after accounting for general CPI, than it would cost in the 1980s.

I'd argue that material costs, labour, engineering studies, consultants, environmental/noise/traffic studies/economic impact reports, expropriation costs, inclusive and accessible design, and other factors making building similar projects much more expensive these days than they were 40 years ago.

That, combined with property tax increases that have barely kept up with inflation (85% of which are dedicated to fixing roads), nation-wide increase salary costs for fire/police, and general contempt for transit among the public make large projects financially and politically difficult here in Winnipeg.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Biff

I think fostering that way of thinking in the 80"s in Alberta has continued a can do attitude to today. They also see the value in transit initiatives, TOD, public infrastructure etc. Starting the LRT 40+ years ago gave them a history of what good transit/transportation can do for a community.

Here in WPG and MB we have the opposite. Years of lack of funding and we can't afford it attitude make thinking big and making it happen difficult. Most here don't think fancy transit will make any difference and they don't want to be taxed to try it.

I think you’re right that it is partly seeing the value in investing in these types of projects, the multiplier effects, in particular for transportation. Manitoba, and Winnipeg seem to take the approach that spending money is a bad thing that has no positive outcomes. In the meantime, other jurisdictions do make the investments, and Winnipeg gets further behind, and becomes less attractive, and so the downward cycle goes. I think a key point of the article is that we are far behind, we don’t have the mindset to change that trend, and there’s a real urgency to change that mindset.

[esquire]

Random question, but are there any actual phone booths left anywhere in Winnipeg, like with an actual folding door, the whole shebang, like this?

[Biff]

One of the news channels just did a piece on the last remaining pay phones around town. It was like under 20 or so and I believe they were all in the inner city/north end. There apparently are 40 or 50 or so still stuck to the outside of buildings, but most don't work.

I don't believe there are any booths though, at least they didn't mention any.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ipeg-1.5451875

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

One of the news channels just did a piece on the last remaining pay phones around town. It was like under 20 or so and I believe they were all in the inner city/north end. There apparently are 40 or 50 or so still stuck to the outside of buildings, but most don't work.

I don't believe there are any booths though, at least they didn't mention any.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ipeg-1.5451875

Whenever I've seen a pay phone outdoors lately, chances are it has usually been destroyed. I'm assuming Bell MTS doesn't bother repairing them anymore. There are still several indoor ones you see here and there.

I saw a movie lately that included a phone booth scene and it made me wonder if there were any phone booths left here... they used to be a pretty common sight up until maybe the early 90s, but I was wondering if they have disappeared entirely from the urban landscape? It seems that way.

[Peggerino]

Originally Posted by esquire

Whenever I've seen a pay phone outdoors lately, chances are it has usually been destroyed. I'm assuming Bell MTS doesn't bother repairing them anymore. There are still several indoor ones you see here and there.

I saw a movie lately that included a phone booth scene and it made me wonder if there were any phone booths left here... they used to be a pretty common sight up until maybe the early 90s, but I was wondering if they have disappeared entirely from the urban landscape? It seems that way.

I live across the street from one that still works in West Broadway. I'm honestly surprised how much it is used by people. For homeless people or really anyone who doesn't own a cell phone payphones can be super important.

[buzzg]

There's a junk lot on the north end of Princess that has a huge pile of old phone booths in it.

There's also a vintage "rod iron" style MTS phone booth (no phone) on the corner of Rorie and McDermot. I can't remember what it is, but there was a specific reason it was left there. I want to do some sort of installation with it...

[esquire]

I remember a lot of new pay phones were installed downtown during the Murray era when there was a Portage Ave streetscaping done... it was when they installed those cheesy vintage lights. Must have been around 1999, 2000 or so. That was probably the last big blast of new payphones downtown.

But actual phone booths... man, I'm not sure there have been any new ones installed in the last 40 years.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by esquire

I remember a lot of new pay phones were installed downtown during the Murray era when there was a Portage Ave streetscaping done... it was when they installed those cheesy vintage lights. Must have been around 1999, 2000 or so. That was probably the last big blast of new payphones downtown.

But actual phone booths... man, I'm not sure there have been any new ones installed in the last 40 years.

I actually like those vintage lights and they are an almost identical match to the original. I'm guessing you like the ugly half rusted semi modern crap ?

Doing those lights was one of the best things they did to downtown. Another would be to return the hanging lights across portage.

[kalabaw]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I just don't know where else to post this.

After 6 years here in Winnipeg, I finally decided to buy a house. It's mostly so the kids have a yard to play in rather than being scooped up in an apartment. We currently live downtown, very close to Union Station... so not the best but not the worst neighborhood.

What do you guys think of the West Broadway neighborhood, around Furby, south of Broadway but north of Westminster? I know there is current resurgence of this neighborhood, but do you think it is a good area for kids?

Your comments would be highly appreciated. Thanks!