[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[drewber]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

I'm fairly ignorant about these things but what is the advantage for Blue Cross being downtown or any large employer for that matter? Things like traffic and parking can become issues for employees and attracting new employees.

If there are hundreds of employees that used to go to lunch at subway, starbucks, piatto, etc, etc. Losing business in the core of a city affects all the businesses there that depend on that traffic

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by drewber

If there are hundreds of employees that used to go to lunch at subway, starbucks, piatto, etc, etc. Losing business in the core of a city affects all the businesses there that depend on that traffic

OK but that's not answering the question I asked. I'm sure Blue Cross will not go under if they left the downtown core.

[drewber]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

OK but that's not answering the question I asked. I'm sure Blue Cross will not go under if they left the downtown core.

Sorry I read it as the benefit for the downtown not for Blue Cross. Maybe different tax rates? I personally don't think there is a benefit hence why they will probably find somewhere else to go sooner than later

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by drewber

Sorry I read it as the benefit for the downtown not for Blue Cross. Maybe different tax rates? I personally don't think there is a benefit hence why they will probably find somewhere else to go sooner than later

Ah OK, that would make sense if taxes were cheaper.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

I'm fairly ignorant about these things but what is the advantage for Blue Cross being downtown or any large employer for that matter? Things like traffic and parking can become issues for employees and attracting new employees.

A fair question.

In terms of actual costs, Blue Cross would likely be better off by having their HQ in a suburban office campus. The only advantage of being downtown is having a "prestige" office address, and allowing their employees the opportunity to frequent downtown restaurants and boutiques on their lunch break. This might be a benefit to Blue Cross in terms of employee recruitment or retention. Otherwise, a nice new shiny building in the Emmerson Business Park (with lots of on site parking) might be the best option for Blue Cross financially and in terms of employee satisfaction.

And this is truly the issue. Having Blue Cross downtown probably matter more to downtown than it does to Blue Cross. If downtown lost Blue Cross and their hundreds of employees, this could be a game changer for many of the restaurants down there. I think a lot of restaurants operate on a pretty thin margin. If they lost the lunchtime crowd, this could tip them over the edge. Downtown could start to hollow out. Any momentum recently gained in the core could disappear overnight.

The best solution now would be for Slate and city hall to expedite their plans for a new parking structure in an attempt to prevent loss of tenants and the ripple effect this could have across the downtown core.

[OliverD]

There are studies that show that companies that locate in urban areas are more profitable than those in suburban areas.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OliverD

There are studies that show that companies that locate in urban areas are more profitable than those in suburban areas.

It would be interesting to see these studies and where they were conducted.

I imagine this is true in a major metropolis like NYC. In a big city like this, if you locate in Manhattan, you would be close to your competitors and this could result in some creative synergy. If your HQ was in some far flung suburb like Rahway NJ instead, you would be "out of the loop", and you might have difficulty in attracting high quality employees.

In Moncton however, there is lots of land for development in the Emmerson Business Park, and this in only a little over a km from the Avenir Centre. You could construct a building to your own specifications, with lots of parking on site and still be not too far away from your clients. Hell, your clients might even find it more convenient if you have ample on site customer parking...........

I should note that I am playing the devil's advocate here. I definitely do not want to see Blue Cross (or any other Slate tenant) move out of downtown, but I do think there is a risk. We all agree that we want to see surface parking gone, and develop more intensive use of land in the downtown core. The issue is how do we do this in the most efficient and business friendly way? I don't think city council got this one right..........

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It would be interesting to see these studies and where they were conducted.

I imagine this is true in a major metropolis like NYC. In a big city like this, if you locate in Manhattan, you would be close to your competitors and this could result in some creative synergy. If your HQ was in some far flung suburb like Rahway NJ instead, you would be "out of the loop", and you might have difficulty in attracting high quality employees.

In Moncton however, there is lots of land for development in the Emmerson Business Park, and this in only a little over a km from the Avenir Centre. You could construct a building to your own specifications, with lots of parking on site and still be not too far away from your clients. Hell, your clients might even find it more convenient if you have ample on site customer parking...........

I should note that I am playing the devil's advocate here. I definitely do not want to see Blue Cross (or any other Slate tenant) move out of downtown, but I do think there is a risk. We all agree that we want to see surface parking gone, and develop more intensive use of land in the downtown core. The issue is how do we do this in the most efficient and business friendly way? I don't think city council got this one right..........

Well RBC built a new contact center on St. George Blvd. They were many years at their previous location, but constructed a brand new building to their own specifications to meet their needs. So you are right about their being a risk of large companies moving.
I would be curious to know if this decision by council is final or if Slate can adjust their proposal in some way to obtain the rezoning. You have to think that five years with a possible extension on top of that is just too long. Show us the plans for expansion (including parking) at the Blue Cross location with construction to start in 1-2 years. Would council grant the rezoning then?

[Monctoncore]

I think everyone is getting way to excited over this, they will probably come to the table and negotiate a new deal and we will all forget about this

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

I think everyone is getting way to excited over this, they will probably come to the table and negotiate a new deal and we will all forget about this

That is exactly what I was wondering. Why couldn't the company come back to the table with a proposal that the city could live with, and get the rezoning they want. Win-win.

[Photo1]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

I think everyone is getting way to excited over this, they will probably come to the table and negotiate a new deal and we will all forget about this

If they'd given the city an option they could get behind to begin with it wouldn't have mattered, hopefully they have a "Plan B"...5+ years of 350+ cars in a surface lot downtown is not good.

But I agree, this will get done somehow (I hope).

[theshark]

How many people work for blue cross in Downtown Moncton?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by theshark

How many people work for blue cross in Downtown Moncton?

Not sure precisely, but I believe it's in the 800-1000 range. It's one of the larger employers in the city.

[MonctonRad]

The V Hotel has now been completely demolished. Site prep for the Hilton Garden Inn can begin in earnest.

[jonny golden]

The following is from the City of Moncton website, concerning Slate Office REIT zoning request for 20 record Street:

That notwithstanding the Zoning By-law’s Table 16.1 Downtown Zones Use Table, a non-building associated surface parking lot will be permitted as a main use of land at 20 Record Street subject to a maximum timeline of 5 years ending on June 30, 2024 with potential for a limited renewal period at Council discretion under the following conditions:
1. Slate has moved forward with new building plans and / or public / private parking garage on its land holdings adjacent to its Blue Cross Building as part of an expansion of its Blue Cross Campus, and / or at their 20 Record Street property by June 30, 2022;

Is Slate planning an expansion of the Blue Cross building including a parking garage? Is there enough room to add a parking garage and new office space?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Is Slate planning an expansion of the Blue Cross building including a parking garage? Is there enough room to add a parking garage and new office space?

I believe Slate owns the land in behind the Marriott Inn & Suites. Currently it's surface parking. If they build on it, it would compound their current parking situation, which is why they needed the old Co-op site as a safety valve.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I believe Slate owns the land in behind the Marriott Inn & Suites. Currently it's surface parking. If they build on it, it would compound their current parking situation, which is why they needed the old Co-op site as a safety valve.

Well if they want to expand, they'll have to include multi level parking somewhere. I guess the Record Street parking lot would have been a temporary solution. It will be interesting to see what their next move will be.

[benvui]

On the argument about having Blue Cross downtown, as someone who just switched from a job in the Caledonia Industrial Park working for IGT (an office job) to working for ALC on Main st. there is definitely a bonus for employees working downtown. There is an atmosphere and everything is close and things to do at lunch. When working at IGT if you wanted to do anything during the day, you were 15 minute drive to get almost everywhere. I know Emmerson is closer to down town but most people wouldn't walk from there, they would drive downtown.

As far as the parking lot, what bothers me is that the proposal was voted down (which I agree with) but no solution was given to fix the parking issues downtown and to get people to stop driving. I think things like park n' rides would be a good idea for Moncton with express buses to different parts of the city. Remember a lot of people that work in Moncton live in outlying areas like Shediac or Bouctouch where no public transit into Moncton is available. Maybe it is time for NB to look at putting in a GO train type service from those areas into the city. I don't know, but I do know that having no plan on the city/province part isn't going to help the situation right now. Saying people need to bike more is not the solution.

P.S. Since switching to my new job, I do take the bus and bike to work as often as I drive now, however there are days where I still need to drive for personal reasons.

[gehrhardt]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

A fair question.

Otherwise, a nice new shiny building in the Emmerson Business Park (with lots of on site parking) might be the best option for Blue Cross financially and in terms of employee satisfaction.

Just as an aside, Blue Cross already has a fair amount of office space on Millennium Blvd.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by gehrhardt

Just as an aside, Blue Cross already has a fair amount of office space on Millennium Blvd.

Indeed. I was aware of this. This is why I used the Emmerson Business Park as an example. Blue Cross could completely decamp from downtown and call it's move simply a "consolidation" of space. This could be spun many ways.

In any event, the parking issue for Slate at the Blue Cross Centre is a huge problem. If the city doesn't want to lose nearly 1000 high paying jobs from the core, they had better start paying attention to this rather than constantly pandering to the cycling zealots.......

The one thing that makes me comfortable that a move by Blue Cross out of the core likely won't happen is that the President and CEO of Blue Cross is Bernard Lord. He is a loyal son of Moncton and a former politician. As such, I'm sure he wouldn't want to do anything that would hollow out downtown Moncton.