Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[harls]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^Then raise salaries. Surely if waiters in Québec are paid 50% more than in the ROC, then all the waiters from the ROC will flock to Québec.

I think it would take more than a fifty percent raise to get someone from the boonies in English Canada to move to Montreal, especially if they have to learn how to speak French.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by harls

I think it would take more than a fifty percent raise to get someone from the boonies in English Canada to move to Montreal, especially if they have to learn how to speak French.

I would have thought that anyone with high school French could learn a food server's vocabulary.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Wasn't King Arthur legend kind of a rip off of Charlemagne?

No.

[harls]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I would have thought that anyone with high school French could learn a food server's vocabulary.

Jesus, man. you are starting to become my nemesis.

Most servers don't even engage in a conversation nowadays, so you're right.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I would have thought that anyone with high school French could learn a food server's vocabulary.

The vast majority of people waiting on tables in a place like Ottawa would disprove that theory quite evocatively.

[Dengler Avenue]

As someone who started learning French in the later years of university, I always find it ironic that I can talk about highways, politics and possibly geography in French, but not food, which is quite important.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The vast majority of people waiting on tables in a place like Ottawa would disprove that theory quite evocatively.

Can't and won't are two different things.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

As someone who started learning French in the later years of university, I always find it ironic that I can talk about highways, politics and possibly geography in French, but not food, which is quite important.

Take a degree in French literature and see what it does to your vocabulary - you end up able to expound on naturalist elements in the work of Zola, but "please pass the salt" can be a challenge.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^Then raise salaries. Surely if waiters in Québec are paid 50% more than in the ROC, then all the waiters from the ROC will flock to Québec.

Aren't earnings in Quebec rising more quickly that in MOC? I thought I read that somewhere last year.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

but "please pass the salt" can be a challenge.

Easy: "Le sel bordel !"

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Then what are you guys complaining about, labor shortages and whatnot?

PS: I have a hard time seeing how an independent Québec would be less attractive than a province of Quebec. If an independent Iceland, small and isolated in the middle of the northern Atlantic with the most awful climate in the world, can attract tons of immigrants as they do, then surely it's no issue for an independent Québec.

I generally agree with your arguments.

An independent Quebec would almost certainly be among the 30 top countries in the world, and maybe even crack the top 20.

It wouldn't be hard to find twice or even three times the number of immigrants who currently move here. And they could all be francophones or at least be interested in learning French instead of shirking out on that and learning only English with the fallback that "it's Canada and English is official too and so there, talk to me in English ya bunch of Frenchies".

People might ask why Quebec doesn't do that already, and why does it oppose increases in immigration targets, but obviously the situation is quite different in that Quebec as a Canadian province doesn't fully control who enters its territory, under what conditions, and even in all cases how people integrate with their new home.

Anyway, the idea that no immigrants would want to move to an independent Quebec is totally ridiculous.

Many hundreds of thousands of people in the developing world move or would move to middle income countries that are far less prosperous than an independent Quebec would be under a worst case scenario.

As for immigrant retention, you are also correct.

Seems to me it is easy to understand why.

If someone gets accepted by the Republic of Quebec, they are only accepted by Quebec. Their admission is only valid for Quebec territory.

If they want to move to Canada(-sans-Québec), then they need to go through Canada's admissions process which would be that of another country and completely separate.

This is quite different from today's situation, where admission in Quebec includes the wide-open possibility of moving to any other part of Canada anytime you want.

So yes, more of the immigrants admitted to Quebec would very likely stay in Quebec, if only because there would be an additional process they'd have to start over in order to move to "Canada".

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Aren't earnings in Quebec rising more quickly that in MOC? I thought I read that somewhere last year.

What is MOC?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

What is MOC?

Most of Canada. Canada outside Quebec.

Generally, you hear ROC - Rest of Canada.

But KW does not like that because he thinks that it diminishes the ROC, which is in fact bigger than Quebec.

So he invented MOC.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

To fill a worker shortage or an inferiority complex facing other G7 counties (particularly the United States) ?

Electoralist considerations are probably quite high up on the list as well.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Generally, you hear ROC - Rest of Canada.

Ironically, I only hear ROC from people east of Ontario.

Manitoba west, an average person will not know what the fuck you are talking about (SSP doesn't count).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Electoralist considerations are probably quite high up on the list as well.

So you mean if most Canadians were bigoted, Justin Trudeau would be bigoted too, out of electoralist considerations?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So you mean if most Canadians were bigoted, Justin Trudeau would be bigoted too, out of electoralist considerations?

Justin Trudeau follows the way the wind blows more than almost any other politician, though that might even be a bit much for him.

[New Brisavoine]

By the way, how do you guys in Québec pronounce his name? Djeusse-tinne or Jusse-thym ?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

By the way, how do you guys in Québec pronounce his name? Djeusse-tinne or Jusse-thym ?

The way that sounds phonetically logical in French. Always.

It's a bit of a joke here that some of the French media say it the pseudo-English way (djeusse-tinne).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The way that sounds phonetically logical in French. Always.

It's a bit of a joke here that some of the French media say it the pseudo-English way (djeusse-tinne).

In France it depends. Some journalists say "Jusse-thym", but many say "Djeusse-tinne", out of this most annoying snobbism of pronouncing things with an English pronunciation (see how so many Parisian journalists pronounced the name of the French culture minister Jack Lang as "djaque").

In this video for example the female journalist says "djeusse-tinne".

• Video Link