Winnipeg - Of Interest

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

Like others have said, esquire's doom and gloom is a bit over the top. I live downtown and I really don't see the decline that he's talking about, aside from the obvious fact that it's much less busy due to WFH. But I certainly don't have the sense that the area is degenerating into a ghetto. It's just a quieter version of typical downtown Winnipeg.

Well, I don't mean to be unduly alarmist but I don't know how anyone could look around downtown today and not see a stark decline compared to 2 years ago.

People are gone but I'm not sure it's a given they'll all be back once our vaccination numbers hit a certain point. And even when they do come back, it doesn't change the fact that the only department store is gone for good, along with the only bookstore, Staples and who knows how many other retailers.

[bomberjet]

Have the mosquitoes even been bad lately?? Like over the last decade? We've been in a relatively dry cycle since the floods of the 2010 era.

I haven't noticed any considerable mosquitoes unless you are out in the country near swamplands.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by esquire

Well, I don't mean to be unduly alarmist but I don't know how anyone could look around downtown today and not see a stark decline compared to 2 years ago.

People are gone but I'm not sure it's a given they'll all be back once our vaccination numbers hit a certain point. And even when they do come back, it doesn't change the fact that the only department store is gone for good, along with the only bookstore, Staples and who knows how many other retailers.

It definitely sucks to have lost the Bay and Staples, but I was commenting more on the idea that downtown was degenerating into a "more hostile" environment. Maybe that's happening way up by Waterfront & Higgins, but I'd hardly even call that downtown. Here by Portage I don't notice any change in the vibe, again aside from the overall reduction in activity, and I don't feel any less safe when out and about.

I also haven't noticed much of a loss in retail and restaurants, aside from the obvious big ones (the Bay and Staples). Otherwise, all the stuff I love downtown is still here. In fact, Mottola Grocery opened during the pandemic and I've shopped there way more than I ever did at the Bay, which was more of a symbolic asset than a useful amenity. You mentioned bookstores -- we still have Bison Books, Book Fair, and Red River Books, which beats a generic Coles anyway.

[buzzg]

I would say the "retraction" and issues in downtown are mostly in Downtown BIZ area. While there's certainly less people on the street on a given day in the Exchange right now, it's not too bad. There's actually been net additions to businesses in the Exchange since COVID hit. Only one restaurant closed since then due to the slowdown (Hermano's) but I had heard they were already considering closing before then. The owners pivoted to weed and PPE pretty quickly and are doing just fine. Talking to the Exchange BIZ, they said their convos with businesses were really positive last summer. Most restaurants/bars reported a down July because there were no festivals, but most had record Augusts.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by esquire

Well, I don't mean to be unduly alarmist but I don't know how anyone could look around downtown today and not see a stark decline compared to 2 years ago.

How so? Since 2 years ago we've added a residential tower at Broadway & Colony, a residential tower behind the WAG with another one on the way, the new Inuit art gallery, 225 Carlton and the Medical Arts bldg have filled with new residents and 185 Smith soon to do the same. New residential starting at the Forks and underway at 433 Main and on Waterfront, new building on the way at RRC. Oh and what 400 units coming at 300 Main? That's all cancelled out because Staples closed?

Originally Posted by esquire

People are gone but I'm not sure it's a given they'll all be back once our vaccination numbers hit a certain point. And even when they do come back, it doesn't change the fact that the only department store is gone for good, along with the only bookstore, Staples and who knows how many other retailers.

The Bay's days were numbered long before covid. Do you remember setting foot in that sad empty place 2 years ago? Let's be honest it unfortunately wasn't adding much life to the downtown, hopefully a new use can be found for the building that actually does. Next year attendance at Jets games will be back. Maybe not all, but lots of UofW and RRC students will be back. Some companies will want everybody back in the office, but I think most are looking at 40-50% working from home post-covid. Which still means tens of thousands more office workers back downtown. I think it actually reveals how far downtown has come that not many businesses have closed and a few have actually opened in this. There is resilience there. 15 years ago this would have been a death knell to downtown for sure.

[OTL]

Thank you kindly for your responses. Yes it's difficult to predict if things in the city centre will pick up again. I used to be a negative Nelly like many in the city, and it was always because of the governing body at the time. Currently, you have a provincial government who could not care less if Winnipeg rots, as long as his pea plant in Portage La Prairie is a success and his family wealth continues. I find that neglectful attitude putrid. I do look forward to the conversations unfolding over the next while with regards to the city and it's long anticipated recovery, specifically the city centre.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

I also haven't noticed much of a loss in retail and restaurants, aside from the obvious big ones (the Bay and Staples). Otherwise, all the stuff I love downtown is still here. In fact, Mottola Grocery opened during the pandemic and I've shopped there way more than I ever did at the Bay, w

wheres mottola and how big is it?

[zalf]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

wheres mottola and how big is it?

True North Square. It doesn't have a ton of fresh foods, as their focus seems to be on providing good-quality prepared frozen dinners. There's also a butcher, cheese counter, and pastry counter in there. Wine is available too.

I liked it. Just don't expect to be able to buy a full range of fresh produce.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

I'd imagine that if you live in Winnipeg and have the cash to spend $2k per month on rent, you'd come to your senses during a pandemic and put that monthly rent payment into a condo or home with a yard.

High end apartments are a tough sell in cities where commute times are low (especially true if working remotely) and housing prices are very affordable.

I could stomach renting for $2k per month in downtown Vancouver where my alternative is a $3k month mortgage payment on an equivalent-sized condo. In Winnipeg though, $2k monthly payment gets you close to a $500 to $600k house - hard to justify living in a downtown apartment next to windswept streets, vacant parking lots, and homeless-occupied bus shelters when you can grab yourself a pretty sweet house 20 minutes south with a backyard and retention pond nearby.

I know urbanists don't want to hear it, but like most cities our size, our inner core has a lot of work to do before it can be a reasonable alternative for most people in the fourth or fifth income quintiles.

The landlords don't understand this equation. Look at the rent in any apartment being built anywhere in Southern MB. You won't find anything 2-3 BR for under $1500 a month. In many of these communities you can buy a 40 year old house with 4-5 bedrooms, 2-3 bathrooms 1200 sq ft for $300,000 or less.

I think we are pretty quickly headed for a situation where we have hundreds maybe even thousands of rental units sitting idle in Southern MB because they are priced right off the market but the builders hold out hope they can sucker someone into signing that lease.

The level of irrational speculation in the real estate market is just incredible.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by zalf

True North Square. It doesn't have a ton of fresh foods, as their focus seems to be on providing good-quality prepared frozen dinners. There's also a butcher, cheese counter, and pastry counter in there. Wine is available too.

I liked it. Just don't expect to be able to buy a full range of fresh produce.

Yeah, it's not a supermarket for sure, and the prices for the produce are outrageous. Double or more what you'd pay at Family Foods a couple blocks away (e.g. bananas $1.79/lb). But it's a great place for specialty foods (and gifts), and the bakery is excellent.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by zalf

True North Square. It doesn't have a ton of fresh foods, as their focus seems to be on providing good-quality prepared frozen dinners. There's also a butcher, cheese counter, and pastry counter in there. Wine is available too.

I liked it. Just don't expect to be able to buy a full range of fresh produce.

I was told they do plan on having a more extensive grocery selection, but I'm guessing it just doesn't make sense right now given the lack of customers. Commuters grabbing a few things on the way home was likely a big part of the business plan.

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

Yeah, it's not a supermarket for sure, and the prices for the produce are outrageous. Double or more what you'd pay at Family Foods a couple blocks away (e.g. bananas $1.79/lb). But it's a great place for specialty foods (and gifts), and the bakery is excellent.

Ya some stuff is definitely expensive, but I don't think they were really hoping or expecting to be the place where someone does all their shopping. Great model for those "in between" shopping trips. For myself personally I go to Superstore every 3-4 weeks for big shops (ie: load up on PC/Blue Menu and non-food stuff) then supplement with produce and small things from Young's or No Frills as needed. I even popped into Giant Tiger for the first time in years the other day to get butter and was pleasantly surprised at how nice and clean the store is now, and the expanded grocery section. They don't carry a lot of specialty brands or items, but you can definitely get all the necessities and normal produce.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I even popped into Giant Tiger for the first time in years the other day to get butter and was pleasantly surprised at how nice and clean the store is now, and the expanded grocery section. They don't carry a lot of specialty brands or items, but you can definitely get all the necessities and normal produce.

Yeah, despite the stigma that some seem to attach to it, I think Giant Tiger might be the most useful retail in all of downtown! Super friendly staff at that location too.

[buzzg]

Def agree about the staff, and they're being extremely diligent with covid-related cleaning.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

Yeah, despite the stigma that some seem to attach to it, I think Giant Tiger might be the most useful retail in all of downtown! Super friendly staff at that location too.

100%. It has no glam factor or cachet, but it's useful... you can go get a mid-week stock-up of grocery basics, pick up some socks and a baking pan all in one go, without having to go to Walmart.

[GreyGarden]

I saw this article on park use in the city:

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...574433362.html

If there's one thing I've liked about the pandemic, it's the feeling of being in a park in the City. Most evenings I go through the legislative grounds, and if I ever catch up with a friend, its often at Munson park. Both spaces are so vibrant now. Not in an unsafe way, usually groups of two to four (if it's two couples) or families, and spaced appropriately. But the parks are full of people having a beer or bottle of wine, plus lots of people by themselves reading a book. The legislative grounds also has lots of families in it, playing soccer or whatever. It's a great vibe all around.

I remember pre-pandemic, our parks often felt so empty and under-used. But now, to borrow another poster's phrase, it feels like being in a 'real city'. Hopefully the enjoyment of being in a park around other people carries into post-pandemic times.

[peg]

I took a walk and sat in Stephen Juba park for a while last night. The park was nicely full, and people were walking and biking etc. Way more active than the park usually is. I also found myself thinking it felt like a big city haha.

The street wall, with the addition of the pumphouse, has really helped that park have an urban feel as well.

I too hope that this increased park use is here to stay post-pandemic!

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by peg

I took a walk and sat in Stephen Juba park for a while last night. The park was nicely full, and people were walking and biking etc. Way more active than the park usually is. I also found myself thinking it felt like a big city haha.

The street wall, with the addition of the pumphouse, has really helped that park have an urban feel as well.

I too hope that this increased park use is here to stay post-pandemic!

I could see increased park usage staying around if the rules surrounding barbecuing and alcohol were relaxed. All the people having beers in the park are likely doing so illegally in terms of open liquor. Lots of places seem to have strict rules about bringing out a small charcoal grill. If those things were lifted in city parks, they would probably be a great and popular option for hosting get togethers.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I could see increased park usage staying around if the rules surrounding barbecuing and alcohol were relaxed. All the people having beers in the park are likely doing so illegally in terms of open liquor. Lots of places seem to have strict rules about bringing out a small charcoal grill. If those things were lifted in city parks, they would probably be a great and popular option for hosting get togethers.

Won't someone please think of the children?

Seriously, though, that would kick ass, and I'm very happy with the current vibe in the city's parks.

Open-container laws are one of those things I find absolutely hair-pulling. Their purpose is to prevent people from getting drunk and causing trouble, but getting drunk in public and causing trouble is already illegal. It's this weird redundancy that doesn't solve the stated problem, which is itself already covered by other laws, and creates an uncomfortable uncertainty about enforcement for a couple of friends having a picnic with beers. Maddening.

[bomberjet]

I take beers with me all the time. Bike rides, walking. As long as you're not being an ass. You shouldn't have any trouble.

I was at a park off Academy this weekend with my son, while the wife was dress shopping. There was a group of 5 people, one couple and 4 others. They were all on their own blankets, sipping bubbly and having a good time. What's wrong with that?

[esquire]

^ Nothing wrong with it, but I would have a hard time enjoying myself knowing that an ornery cop could write me a ticket costing hundreds of dollars for doing nothing more than sitting in a park quietly enjoying a rosé.

You kind of forget how dumb it is until you go to another part of the world where people are entrusted with the awesome privilege of being allowed to have a drink in a park or wherever.