Official Fredericton, NB projects thread - Page 200

cl812 · #**3981** Posted **Dec 19, 2012, 4:15 PM**

If I'm not mistaken aren't there a couple other proposals at a few locations around town for 6-7 story residential buildings?

OliverD · #**3982** Posted **Dec 19, 2012, 5:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cl812

If I'm not mistaken aren't there a couple other proposals at a few locations around town for 6-7 story residential buildings?

Only one I can think of is Colpitts' new development off of Kimble drive which calls for at least one six story condo building but that's part of a larger proposal so who knows when that will happen.

Also, I drove by the McLeod Avenue building at lunch and it looks like it might only be six stories instead of seven. The original proposal had a smaller penthouse story as the seventh floor but since the crane is gone I'm assuming that isn't happening. I could be wrong though.

Freddypop · #**3983** Posted **Dec 19, 2012, 6:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OliverD

Only one I can think of is Colpitts' new development off of Kimble drive which calls for at least one six story condo building but that's part of a larger proposal so who knows when that will happen.

Also, I drove by the McLeod Avenue building at lunch and it looks like it might only be six stories instead of seven. The original proposal had a smaller penthouse story as the seventh floor but since the crane is gone I'm assuming that isn't happening. I could be wrong though.

What about the new apartment building planned for the old Northside Sports Bar location?

OliverD · #**3984** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 1:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddypop

What about the new apartment building planned for the old Northside Sports Bar location?

Only four stories.

Taeolas · #**3985** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 1:57 PM**

We do seem stuck in that 4-6 story range; but it is good that most of the new construction IS in that range and not less.

Hopefully within another 10 years, we'll see 6-8 become more normal, maybe even with an occasional 10.

(Oh and we're almost at 4k posts in the Freddy thread.

Wonder if we can crack 4k before 2013?)

KnoxfordGuy · #**3986** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 2:52 PM**

I wonder what Fredericton will look like in 100 years. will we stop growing or will we keep going and maybe reach the size of Halifax? Random thought I know haha.

jeddy1989 · #**3987** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 3:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeolas

We do seem stuck in that 4-6 story range; but it is good that most of the new construction IS in that range and not less.

Hopefully within another 10 years, we'll see 6-8 become more normal, maybe even with an occasional 10.

(Oh and we're almost at 4k posts in the Freddy thread.

Wonder if we can crack 4k before 2013?)

good to know, I was just curious because St. John's was stangnant for 25 years (until our recent new found resource control and development) and I was just wondering how the other atlantic canadian cities were doing... I wanted to see if it was just halifax that was developing during our "dark ages"

MonctonRad · #**3988** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 3:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

I wonder what Fredericton will look like in 100 years. will we stop growing or will we keep going and maybe reach the size of Halifax? Random thought I know haha.

Nice to dream I know, but I can't imagine any NB city really becoming a rival for Halifax in terms of size.

Halifax has an advantage because it is really such a dominant city in NS, while here in NB we have three nearly equivalent cities battling it out. There is also the perception out there in the rest of the country that Halifax is the "regional" city for the Maritimes, and as such, if any Atlantic Canadian operations are to be set up, they naturally go to Halifax by default.

The NB cities will all continue to grow, and I am confident that they will generally reach their potential, but Halifax will remain the dominant city in the region. Of this I have no doubt.

Bishop2047 · #**3989** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 3:24 PM**

Fredericton has been a steady slow grower without a real "dark age". Freddy has not been commodities or truly natural resources dependent for some time and thus not subject to the inherent swings those industries bring.
Also looks like the construction on Bishop Drive next to electric motor service will be three retail spots. Unsure if this has always been there and they only recently put up signage but IBM has moved onto Bishop drive.

jeddy1989 · #**3990** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Nice to dream I know, but I can't imagine any NB city really becoming a rival for Halifax in terms of size.

Halifax has an advantage because it is really such a dominant city in NS, while here in NB we have three nearly equivalent cities battling it out. There is also the perception out there in the rest of the country that Halifax is the "regional" city for the Maritimes, and as such, if any Atlantic Canadian operations are to be set up, they naturally go to Halifax by default.

The NB cities will all continue to grow, and I am confident that they will generally reach their potential, but Halifax will remain the dominant city in the region. Of this I have no doubt.

Our city is on our way IMO hehehehe
I can see St. John's being a major competitor (one that's off to the side which will affect it a bit all the same)

Do you guys find that because the resources are spread between three cities in NB that it can dilute the competitive edge?

I think It's awesome you have three cities though to be honest! It would be great if NL had another actual city near by that wasn't over an hour by plane away.

How do you guys in NB veiw St. John's? we over here as far as I know have no negative feelings towards NB and tend to look at you guys as our friends across the water.. where as with NS there is a feeling of snubbiness/ tensions and maybe that somes from being neighbours and competition (along with our historic feeling that many beleive that Mainlanders think Canada ends in Halifax) even in commercials they have said (even for tim hortons) from Vancouver Island to Halifax .. and we were like FTW?!.. and then it changed hahaha

Taeolas · #**3991** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 3:56 PM**

Freddy won't reach Halifax sizes, but in a hundred years, but it will continue growing. Saint John or Moncton have better chances of reaching Halifax sizes, but they both depend on fickle boom/bust cycles of their industries (Saint John especially, but Moncton to a slightly lesser extent).

As said, we're a slow grower; primarily a Tech/Education/Government city. The tech angle especially will probably be a growth spurt in the near (20-40 year) future.

We'll probably still sprawl out; filling in towards Lincoln and Oromocto, Hanwell and New Maryland, as well as along the river on both sides. In a hundred years, that sprawl might be enough that Oromocto, Lincoln, Hanwell and maybe even New Maryland will be merged into Freddy; they're already all but part of our CMA to begin with.

We'll probably start seeing some 10 story buildings eventually, but maybe not downtown due to the land issues. Does the North side shore of the river have the same soil problems the downtown has?

It would be good if the North Side commercial areas can take off a bit more than they have; especially 2NC. Hopefully by then the bridge @ Ring Road and 2NC will have been built so they can benefit from the Northside traffic.

And now for the pessimistic view from a certain other poster on these forums.

*Edit to add*

Having 3 major cities does dilute the province, especially in the early years. But IMO it is also one of our strengths. Even now, we are a province that has 3 CMA's in an area that's smaller than Southern Ontario; hell that's practically smaller than the GTA alone. Historically, the way the Maritimes were treated in the late 19th and early to mid 20th centuries probably have held us back more than anything. We were all but ignored by the rest of Canada, and didn't get as big a boost as they did; something that's only turning around now in the past few decades IMO. Going forward, it does mean we will probably never be able to out draw the concentration that Halifax provides. But at the same time, our tricities are just far apart that they can offset Halifax's concentratedness. We sort of get the benefits of both worlds; a company can set up 1 location and draw from all three cities. Or they can set up 3 locations and still have a decent enough pull that one doesn't cannibalize the other. (Look at Costco; we have 3 locations all doing well, compared to 2 in Halifax and none anywhere else in NS).

As for our view on Saint John's; I don't think we have much of a view one way or another, other than as another provincial capital. NB doesn't have the historical connections to NF like Nova Scotia has, and so we never made the links that endure to this day. We're friendly, and in many ways kindred spirits in our views towards the Rest of Canada; but other than the city name confusion, there isn't much between Saint John's and NB that I've noticed.

MonctonRad · #**3992** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 4:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

Do you guys find that because the resources are spread between three cities in NB that it can dilute the competitive edge?

I think It's awesome you have three cities though to be honest! It would be great if NL had another actual city near by that wasn't over an hour by plane away.

I actually am a fan of having the three cities. It's nice having the variety and it increases the choice of places to explore. I actually think having three cities increases competitiveness. If you have one single hugely dominant city, I kinda think that you start to feel entitled. In NB, you have to actually earn your success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

How do you guys in NB veiw St. John's? we over here as far as I know have no negative feelings towards NB and tend to look at you guys as our friends across the water.. where as with NS there is a feeling of snubbiness and maybe that somes from being neighbours and competition (along with our historic feeling that many beleive that Mainlanders think Canada ends in Halifax) even in commercials they have said (even for tim hortons) from Vancouver Island to Halifax .. and we were like FTW?!.. and then it changed hahaha

I like Newfoundland and St. John's very much. I have visited your province several times both for work and play. I have said in the past that if St. John's were on the mainland that I would seriously consider living there. By this I mean that I find St. John's somewhat isolated. That's the only knock I have against your city.

Taeolas · #**3993** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 4:12 PM**

Agreed MonctonRad; I have the feeling that a dominant city tends to spur too many feelings of "Us vs Them" within the province, since so much of the province's economic and political power tends to get concentrated in that city.

By having 3 roughly equivalent cities (and 3-4 more on a second tier below, but still a noticeable if shrinking force in the province), it dilutes that feeling. It has hurt us in the past; transportation outside of the province is screwed up because we don't have a really dominant airport for example, though YQM tries. But the tricities overall are the classic Frenemy. We compete where we need to, and we support eachother when we need to as well. Each city has its strengths and weaknesses, with some overlap( SJ: Industry and Transportation. Moncton: Retail, Tourism and Business; Freddy: Government, Education, Military), and I do feel we're a bit stronger because of that.

jeddy1989 · #**3994** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 4:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Agreed MonctonRad; I have the feeling that a dominant city tends to spur too many feelings of "Us vs Them" within the province, since so much of the province's economic and political power tends to get concentrated in that city.
By having 3 roughly equivalent cities (and 3-4 more on a second tier below, but still a noticeable if shrinking force in the province), it dilutes that feeling. It has hurt us in the past; transportation outside of the province is screwed up because we don't have a really dominant airport for example, though YQM tries. But the tricities overall are the classic Frenemy. We compete where we need to, and we support eachother when we need to as well. Each city has its strengths and weaknesses, with some overlap( SJ: Industry and Transportation. Moncton: Retail, Tourism and Business; Freddy: Government, Education, Military), and I do feel we're a bit stronger because of that.

Yup that happens for sure we even have special names for each other lol and a symbolic "overpass" hahaha

try adding to the mix that the dominant city was the capital of what was the country lol and ALL control came from there

I definitely see your point on that!

can we have one of your cities please? we could put it in Corner Brook

hahah

jeddy1989 · #**3995** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 4:18 PM**

just to add to that us and them idea

have a look at this video
A Townie is from St. John's and a Baymen is from well anywhere on the island that is not St. John's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=9QlQkw2FCek

OliverD · #**3996** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 4:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

Also looks like the construction on Bishop Drive next to electric motor service will be three retail spots. Unsure if this has always been there and they only recently put up signage but IBM has moved onto Bishop drive.

They've been there for at least a couple years now, previously as Q1 Labs. The IBM signage is fairly recent though.

RyeJay · #**3997** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 4:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

I wonder what Fredericton will look like in 100 years. will we stop growing or will we keep going and maybe reach the size of Halifax? Random thought I know haha.

I suspect Fredericton will always remain relatively petit. If you wish to compare it to Halifax: Nova Scotia's capital has the industrial and military advantages of being a port city. The shipbuilding contract is a recent example. The Atlantic Gateway expansion of the City's cargo and cruise ship traffic is another example.

One factor the two provincial capitals have in common is that their economies highly depend upon their universities and colleges.

I hope Frederiction eventually establishes some decent density in its downtown, because one of the major advantages Halifax has is that it is the only Maritime city with a versatile core. Urbanity is increasingly what the young working demographics are demanding: and Halifax's established framework has opened the door for private investments in even more urban living options, close to numerous post secondary educational institutions, public services, entertainment, and most importantly: sources of employment. Saint John is slowly bringing more density to its Uptown; however, it's progress could be accelerated with a higher employment rate.

New Brunswick's cities seem to still be obsessing over economically unsustainable and undesirable sprawl. Halifax is sprawling as well, but is making efforts to curb the outward 'growth' so that vertical growth may occur.

The Halifax Central Library and the Halifax Nova Centre (convention and trade centre) are recent example of public investments that have been made, which will bring more jobs downtown. These types of investments are difficult to make in cities in New Brunswick because (1) New Brunswick's absurd amount of provincial debt; and (2) none of NB's cities are amalgamated for economic sustainability, nor for political unification in order to create a solid direction for investment. Moncton, for example, is still fragmented politically, despite economically function as one with Dieppe and Riverview. A third reason for a hesitation in downtown investments is due to the unusually negative bias New Brunswickers have toward 'dirty downtowns'.

(Downtowns/Uptowns are only dirty if you allow them to be.)

If the Moncton area were amalgamated, the larger city would be able to more easily invest in a downtown events centre, which would be a source of jobs. This would modestly help bring residential and commercial developments that would bring density to the core -- and therefore the city's tax base -- and this would be of an economic benefit for the communities within both Dieppe and Riverview, because money to maintain their roads, parks, and public services doesn't appear out of thin air. Sprawl never pays for itself. Cities need a healthy core in order to pay the bills.

Oromocto, Hanwell, and New Maryland should be merged with Fredericton.

Twinkies · #**3998** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 5:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

Our city is on our way IMO hehehehe
I can see St. John's being a major competitor (one that's off to the side which will affect it a bit all the same)

Do you guys find that because the resources are spread between three cities in NB that it can dilute the competitive edge?

I think It's awesome you have three cities though to be honest! It would be great if NL had another actual city near by that wasn't over an hour by plane away.

How do you guys in NB veiw St. John's? we over here as far as I know have no negative feelings towards NB and tend to look at you guys as our friends across the water.. where as with NS there is a feeling of snubbiness/ tensions and maybe that somes from being neighbours and competition (along with our historic feeling that many beleive that Mainlanders think Canada ends in Halifax) even in commercials they have said (even for tim hortons) from Vancouver Island to Halifax .. and we were like FTW?!.. and then it changed hahaha

I have no problem with New Foundland or the people. Ive been there once. I drove 8 hours to get on the ferry then another 11 hours due to winds on the ferry. Its was beatiful when I got there but that wasnt even St Johns. I guess thats anther 8 hour drive. Its just to far to travel. I can head south to a warm tropical climate with all inclusive food and drinks for what it would be to fly to NFLD. So to me its a world away.

RedBall · #**3999** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 6:15 PM**

I was planning on getting some photos of Bishop Drive work but have not had the time. Here are some pictures that I have taken.

So.. it seems my flickr skills are lacking.. I will get some pics up.

cl812 · #**4000** Posted **Dec 20, 2012, 8:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

Our city is on our way IMO hehehehe
I can see St. John's being a major competitor (one that's off to the side which will affect it a bit all the same)

Do you guys find that because the resources are spread between three cities in NB that it can dilute the competitive edge?

I think It's awesome you have three cities though to be honest! It would be great if NL had another actual city near by that wasn't over an hour by plane away.

How do you guys in NB veiw St. John's? we over here as far as I know have no negative feelings towards NB and tend to look at you guys as our friends across the water.. where as with NS there is a feeling of snubbiness/ tensions and maybe that somes from being neighbours and competition (along with our historic feeling that many beleive that Mainlanders think Canada ends in Halifax) even in commercials they have said (even for tim hortons) from Vancouver Island to Halifax .. and we were like FTW?!.. and then it changed hahaha

I came to St. John's for work for a few days back in the spring, and it was my first time to Newfoundland. I have to say St. John's is very impressive, it is a beautiful city and I intend to come back for vacation at some point. I wish we had more time to see more of the city and the rest of the Island. The restaruants were the part that really impressed me, so many good places to eat.

Personally, I think it is great to see things going well in St. John's and Newfoundland.