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View Poll Results: Which city will reach 1 million first?
Winnipeg 89 76.72%
Québec 27 23.28%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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  #381  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 2:26 AM
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I think most people outside of this forum would say that Winnipeg and Quebec City are similar sized cities.
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  #382  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 2:53 AM
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Ok, so I finally made it to Albany.

Am I the only one that sees it as the true sister city of Quebec City, demographics aside?

Winnipeg, London and Hamilton have more in common than QC & WPG.
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  #383  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 3:08 AM
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
^ MB has its own Provincial nominee program for immigrants which keeps Winnipeg growing at a decent clip (10 to 15k per year) regardless of what the Feds are doing.
I do know that Manitoba has it's own Provincial nominee program particularly with the Philippines but Ottawa has the ability to override that if it wants to. Ottawa has 100% jurisdiction when it comes to immigration/visas and can put a halt to any provincial immigration program if it wants to. Manitoba's program is because Ottawa allowed them to have not because Manitoba had the right to bring in immigrants by itself.

Even if Ottawa cuts immigration but allows the Manitoba program to remain, it still comes down to politics but this time at the provincial level. This is why Canada's physical and social infrastructure is under such strain. Demographers can only go by traditional levels of growth to plan for future needs and when you have people like Trudeau who decide on a whim to open the floodgates to immigrants/students/TFW etc, it's small wonder our infrastructure and housing is woefully inadequate.
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  #384  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 3:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
I think most people outside of this forum would say that Winnipeg and Quebec City are similar sized cities.
I would take it one step further and say Hockey fans think Winnipeg is bigger while Koreans and French people think Quebec City is bigger. In reality most people outside of Canada have no damn clue about either of these cities. But I guess the ROC views them as equals.

Although in my experience spending considerable amount of time in both places, Quebec City almost always seems to have more people around. One can interpret that any way they want.
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  #385  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek View Post
I would take it one step further and say Hockey fans think Winnipeg is bigger while Koreans and French people think Quebec City is bigger. In reality most people outside of Canada have no damn clue about either of these cities. But I guess the ROC views them as equals.

Although in my experience spending considerable amount of time in both places, Quebec City almost always seems to have more people around. One can interpret that any way they want.
Tourism. Density. Walkability.
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  #386  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Tourism. Density. Walkability.
A thriving (with an abundance of retail and restaurants) and safe city centre in QC City due to the reasons you mention; plus many more vs. Winnipeg. The Christmas market in old city of QC City is an outstanding attraction; while Winnipeg has Dollarama on Postage Ave.

Longer term, the region which will grow to exceed both Winnipeg and QC City in population will be KWC. Winnipeg and QC City have a small hinterland to draw population from; while KWC is in the outer commuter shed of the GTA. As housing prices continues to increase in the GTA and GO Transit continues to expand to KWC; plus highway infrastructure expands as well (the 401 in KWC is now 10 lanes IIRC), more people will move to KWC; as well as Guelph. Eventually, those two CMAs will become one and the KWC-Guelph tech triangle will become one region with 1M+ population.
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  #387  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 6:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
I think most people outside of this forum would say that Winnipeg and Quebec City are similar sized cities.
This thread only cares about who reaches 1 million first and Winnipeg has an almost 30,000 person lead.
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  #388  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 6:37 PM
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From the statistic Canada thread,

The Functional Urban Area (FUA) of the two has already determined a winner.

1,005,982 Québec, QC
998,548 Winnipeg, MB

StatsCan has consider eliminating CMA and moving to FUA in the past which is standardize for OECD countries.
https://regions-cities-atlas.oecd.org/FUA/x/x/T_T/2020
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  #389  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 6:55 PM
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Sir, we don't use that metric in Canada.
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  #390  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 7:35 PM
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The FUA seems to be a more realistic metric IMO. Better reflects life on the ground.
Either way - QC and The Peg are very close in population and are essentially at 1M.
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  #391  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 7:46 PM
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Congratulations QC! After almost a year and nearly 400 posts, it's nice to finally have a winner.
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  #392  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Congratulations QC! After almost a year and nearly 400 posts, it's nice to finally have a winner.
QC is not the winner by Statistics Canada metrics, which are the only ones that count in this 'race'. QC may be the winner in France, but not in Canada, and therefore the 'race' is still on with Winnipeg in the lead
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  #393  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 8:59 PM
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This feels like the controversy that follows a proclamation of independence. How many countries (SSPers) will recognize the declaration of independence (Quebec first to 1 million), on what grounds and what will the political fall out be?
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  #394  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Justanothermember View Post
QC is not the winner by Statistics Canada metrics, which are the only ones that count in this 'race'. QC may be the winner in France, but not in Canada, and therefore the 'race' is still on with Winnipeg in the lead
The original post doesn't specify by which metrics the race is measured and I've decided that the FUA is acceptable. So I stand by my congratulations, but you're welcome to withhold yours until one of them passes the statscan metric if you prefer.
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  #395  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 9:06 PM
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I wonder what Quebec City would be like if it had the federally neglected indigenous population that winnipeg has?
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  #396  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 9:28 PM
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
The original post doesn't specify by which metrics the race is measured and I've decided that the FUA is acceptable. So I stand by my congratulations, but you're welcome to withhold yours until one of them passes the statscan metric if you prefer.
Okay sure. I choose to follow the metric of measurement that is legal within Canada and that the vast majority of Canadians will abide by as it is the official Canadian tool of population count in Canada. I choose not to implement foreign measurement tools in Canadian population counts as they have no legal bearing in Canada whatsoever and are irrelevant to Stats Can

*note - I have no idea where that frowny emoji came from lol
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  #397  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Justanothermember View Post
Okay sure. I choose to follow the metric of measurement that is legal within Canada and that the vast majority of Canadians will abide by as it is the official Canadian tool of population count in Canada. I choose not to implement foreign measurement tools in Canadian population counts as they have no legal bearing in Canada whatsoever and are irrelevant to Stats Can

*note - I have no idea where that frowny emoji came from lol
Good thing we're on a hobbyist web forum where we can use whatever data we believe works best for our purposes. If we were conducting official Statscan measurements and analysis or I'd be a little worried. Although the "legal within Canada" part sounds a bit scary. Almost makes it sound like doing anything different from Statscan is illegal. Hope my computer doesn't get seized.
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  #398  
Old Posted May 31, 2024, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Nite View Post
StatsCan has consider eliminating CMA and moving to FUA in the past which is standardize for OECD countries.
https://regions-cities-atlas.oecd.org/FUA/x/x/T_T/2020
Source?
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  #399  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2024, 2:47 AM
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Originally Posted by LuluBobo View Post
Source?
I am going by the following post in the statistic canada thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laceoflight View Post
The last population estimates from July 1, 2023 are interesting to look at, and I have been pleased to read all of this thead. What is even more interesting, though, is that after the (vast and expensive) consultation that were held a few years before last census (2021), which I have taken part of, Statistics Canada have decided to maintain its census metropolitan area delineation method, rather than update to a method that is becoming standard worldwide, the Functional Urban Areas (developed in collaboration with OECD and EU).

Basically, this method is simple : there are urban centres or "cities" which are defined as continuous built-up spaces. All the municipalities where most of the population live in that continuous built-up space are considered part of the "city" (in other words, the urban core). There are thresholds for size, which are based on the number of jobs, density and population of said cores. For example, the core of a functional urban area of greater importance consists of a conurbation of at least 50k population, 10k jobs and 1500ppl/sqkm. There are many sources online where you can find the detail for this method. There is then a threshold of 15% commuting between "cities". It a city sends more than 15% of its working population to another city, it is considered as a secondary "urban core" of this second city. You understand that there is no such thing as Hamilton, Oshawa, Abbotsford, Valleyfield, etc. with this method. Which is the interesting part.

The delineation method that is used in Canada for CMAs is pretty much unique worldwide, which limits comparisons when it comes to urban matters (public health, urban growth, urban sprawl, etc.) I am a researcher attached to the Urban development chair at UdeM. For most of our analysis, we use, for Canada, the data for Functional Urban Areas (Aires d'attraction des villes en français). We can therefore do some comparisons with european cities, for example. We work closely with Statistics Canada : they provide us with the granular data (ex.: census blocks, attributes, etc., which are all public by the way), and mostly, the number of jobs by census block.

Anyway, as we keep track of this data, I thought I'd share it with you, in order to add another perspective when it comes to comparing urban areas in Canada. I will be glad to answer your questions, even though demographics is not my field of study - I work in environmental geography, landscape and cultural heritage. I may have to ask colleagues before being able to come back to you.


So, according to the July 1st 2023 estimates that were released recently, Canada's main Functional Urban Areas are :

Position. Population. Name

Code:
1.   8 854 488   Toronto, ON
2.   4 925 560   Montréal, QC
3.   3 342 027   Vancouver, BC
4.   1 787 183   Calgary, AB
5.   1 745 823   Ottawa / Gatineau, ON/QC
6.   1 597 116   Edmonton, AB
7.   1 005 982   Québec, QC
8.     998 548   Winnipeg, MB
9.     683 300   Kitchener / Cambridge / Waterloo, ON
10.    682 528   London, ON
11.    552 728   Halifax, NS
12.    453 695   Victoria, BC
13.    441 736   St. Catharines / Niagara Falls, ON
14.    434 729   Windsor, ON
15.    371 640   Saskatoon, SK
16.    291 198   Sherbrooke, QC
17.    290 871   Regina, SK
18.    253 027   St. John's, NL
19.    246 789   Kelowna, BC
20.    240 197   Moncton, NB
21.    235 600   Kingston, ON
22.    214 141   Guelph, ON
23.    213 244   Trois-Rivières, QC
24.    204 585   Red Deer, AB
25.    192 723   Sudbury, ON
26.    182 072   Saguenay, QC
27.    171 685   Belleville / Trenton, ON
28.    154 156   Lethbridge, AB
29.    152 330   Fredericton, NB
30.    151 501   Peterborough, ON
31.    149 516   Nanaimo, BC
32.    146 943   Saint John, NB
33.    132 733   Kamloops, BC
34.    131 212   Thunder Bay, ON
35.    129 190   Drummondville, QC
36.    122 182   Granby, QC
37.    116 452   Sarnia, ON
38.    113 755   Charlottetown, PE
39.    113 238   Chatham-Kent, ON
40.    111 033   Sydney (Cape Breton), NS
41.    104 789   Joliette, QC
42.    101 444   North Bay, ON
43.    100 484   Saint-Hyacinthe, QC
44.    100 006   Grande Prairie, AB
A few remarks :
  • There is a problem with the inconsistency of census subdivisions, espacially in BC and AB, where immense municipal districts create municipal enclaves within them. The urban areas in these 2 provinces, especially Alberta, tend to grow add no municipality for a few censuses, and then add like 10 or 15 in one census, because the sum of commuting worker for a whole municipal district and all of its enclaves combined reaches 15%. The same problem is experienced with the official Statistics Canada method.
  • The Toronto FUA (functional urban area) comprises Hamilton, Oshawa, Barrie, Milton and Brantford, which are all secondary cores of category A. The statiscal "city" of Brantford sends 15,33% of its working population to Toronto and adjacent municipalities.
  • In Vancouver, Abbotsford (A), Mission (C) and Chilliwack (B) are all considered as secondary cores.
  • For Montreal, Saint-Jérôme (A), Salaberry-de-Valleyfield (B) and Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu (B) are also considered as secondary cores. Saint-Hyacinthe, Sorel and Joliette are not close to become secondary cores.
  • Outside of the larger 3 agglomerations, we note that Shawinigan, QC is only at 1,01% of commuting to becoming a secondary core to Trois-Rivières. We consider them separate for now. It is also interesting that Louiseville, a C-category "city", is now at 13.7% commuting to Trois-Rivières. But outside of the suburban world, these stats tend to take time to increase, and honestly, we would prefer not to see it happen.
  • Sainte-Marie, QC sends 13.21% of its working force to Québec, QC. Seeing the growth of this rate in the last 2 censuses, the "city" should join QC in 5 or 10 years.
  • Airdrie, AB, is a secondary core to Calgary (46% of commuting)
  • Guelph, ON, is closer to be added to the FUA of Toronto (8,7% of commuting) than it is to join KCW (4,0% of commuting). Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo is not even close to join Toronto either (3.64% of commuting); it is still fairly independent.
  • Vernon, BC and Kelowna are not close to merge.
  • Cobourg, ON will not likely be integrated soon to Toronto, but it is getting closer (11% commuting). So is Midland (11% also). Brighton could eventually be integrated to Belleville-Trenton, but is not close enough for now (10.5%).
  • Alma, QC could eventually join Saguenay, but it will take some time (understand : decades) (11% commuting). If Sorel grows more, it could also eventually be added to Montreal, but recent trends suggest otherwise (10%). Same goes for Coaticook to Sherbrooke (10.3%), and Cowansville to Granby (10%).
  • Shediac is already integrated into the Moncton FUA (44% commuting for the combined town and parish).

I hope it was informative. Don't forget : these are all just stats, and they mostly are useful to compare apples to apples. This is not a popularity contest or an indicator of greatness.
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  #400  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2024, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Good thing we're on a hobbyist web forum where we can use whatever data we believe works best for our purposes. If we were conducting official Statscan measurements and analysis or I'd be a little worried. Although the "legal within Canada" part sounds a bit scary. Almost makes it sound like doing anything different from Statscan is illegal. Hope my computer doesn't get seized.

Better not snitch on the provincial government of Ontario either, which uses the "illegal" Greater Toronto Area rather than the Toronto CMA for planning purposes!
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