Future Transit System Ideas - Ottawa/Gatineau | Fantasy

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

- Creation of a Bank Street Subway (Central Line/ Line 3) going from Parliament to Bilings Bridge calling at : Parliament, Somerset, Gladstone, Ottawa Bus Terminal, Glebe, Lansdowne, Sunnyside and Billings Bridge. This line will serve a vital role in serving the busiest street in Ottawa but also link the Billings Bridge intermodal station to the CBD. Trains will run every 3min and will use the same technology as the Confederation Line to accomodate for better interoperability between both lines.

That is EXACTLY what the Bank Street O-Train line should look like but I do believe it needs to connect with South Keys

[Kitchissippi]

If you really wanted to turn Billings bridge into a hub, I'd take the northern part of the Trillium line and tun it into a loop going through the Southeast transitway, then elevated along the Vanier Parkway and across the river on the MC Bridge over to Gatineau and back on the POW. Use fully automated driverless SkyTrain type cars (shorter but very high frequency) both on this and a Bank Street Line which would also cross over to Hull and bisect the loop.



Both the Airport Spur and the southern part of the Trillium line would terminate at Billings, giving passengers the choice of making a bee line downtown or bypassing it east or west to transfer to the Confederation line. The loop would function as a diffuser and distributor in the central core.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

If you really wanted to turn Billings bridge into a hub, I'd take the northern part of the Trillium line and tun it into a loop going through the Southeast transitway, then elevated along the Vanier Parkway and across the river on the MC Bridge over to Gatineau and back on the POW. Use fully automated driverless SkyTrain type cars (shorter but very high frequency) both on this and a Bank Street Line which would also cross over to Hull and bisect the loop.



Both the Airport Spur and the southern part of the Trillium line would terminate at Billings, giving passengers the choice of making a bee line downtown or bypassing it east or west to transfer to the Confederation line. The loop would function as a diffuser and distributor in the central core.

I like this idea. It could also function like the Circle Line does now in London. It used to be a circle running in both directions, but in recent years has a loop out to Hammersmith. This Trillium Line could function like that, instead of having a different line out to the Airport, just have it leave the Trillium Line circle.

[TheMatth69]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

If you really wanted to turn Billings bridge into a hub, I'd take the northern part of the Trillium line and tun it into a loop going through the Southeast transitway, then elevated along the Vanier Parkway and across the river on the MC Bridge over to Gatineau and back on the POW. Use fully automated driverless SkyTrain type cars (shorter but very high frequency) both on this and a Bank Street Line which would also cross over to Hull and bisect the loop.



Both the Airport Spur and the southern part of the Trillium line would terminate at Billings, giving passengers the choice of making a bee line downtown or bypassing it east or west to transfer to the Confederation line. The loop would function as a diffuser and distributor in the central core.

The concept is good, but the whole idea when I did my virtual network was to :
1) Keep cost at a minimal.
2) Bilings Bridge is a hub for commuters coming from Kanata and Barrhaven using the commuter rail lines. They would then transfer at Billings Bridge on the Central to reach downtown
3) Be realistic. Realising such a loop line going all the way into Gatineau would be very hard . Especially considering the difference in elevation between Ottawa's CBD and Gatineau, which would force the lines to run very deep underground. Also I think it's not a good idea to scrap the Trillium line just to make it a loop when it has a much better purpose of serving southern communities.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

3) Be realistic. Realising such a loop line going all the way into Gatineau would be very hard . Especially considering the difference in elevation between Ottawa's CBD and Gatineau, which would force the lines to run very deep underground. Also I think it's not a good idea to scrap the Trillium line just to make it a loop when it has a much better purpose of serving southern communities.

So much for fantasy The idea of a Bank Street line is already not that realistic.

The problem with the Trillium line is that the increasingly urban needs of the northern section requiring steady all-day service at very high frequencies will start to conflict with the largely intermittent peak hour needs of the southern suburban section. Within an urban loop you could go with shorter trains at sub-2 minute frequencies, and use the long trains for the less frequent hauls to the suburbs.

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by caboose

I like this idea. It could also function like the Circle Line does now in London. It used to be a circle running in both directions, but in recent years has a loop out to Hammersmith. This Trillium Line could function like that, instead of having a different line out to the Airport, just have it leave the Trillium Line circle.

I agree that is the perfect setup and gets people in and out and throughout the downtown core while getting the suburbs in and out of the city

[Tortuga]

Hopping on the Fantasy Transit bandwagon.

Made three scenarios for an LRT line from South Keys to the west end. Late to the party on this. I'm sure the forum was talking about this when Ottawa considering purchasing the Beachburg Subdivision for transit.

Here are the maps. Scenario A and B are definitely more realistic than C. C would only work if there was a some sort of rail link from South March that went to Pembroke and beyond. Also, with talks of a Baseline BRT in the works, I wonder if an LRT line like this would ever be needed.

[GradualFuture]

Originally Posted by Tortuga

Hopping on the Fantasy Transit bandwagon.

Made three scenarios for an LRT line from South Keys to the west end. Late to the party on this. I'm sure the forum was talking about this when Ottawa considering purchasing the Beachburg Subdivision for transit.

Here are the maps. Scenario A and B are definitely more realistic than C. C would only work if there was a some sort of rail link from South March that went to Pembroke and beyond. Also, with talks of a Baseline BRT in the works, I wonder if an LRT line like this would ever be needed.

https://i.postimg.cc/d3F88t5j/Stage-4A.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/T1cnQMSM/Stage-4B.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/gcyyG80S/Stage-4C.jpg

Damn fantasy poster's *spits on ground.

Joking, joking. You deserve a safe space for these.

I hadn't of thought of a train line running along this alignment. I suppose THIS would be a far future idea where the city has reached capacity in the core and the urban environment along with urban development needs extends out to absorb this area? This idea would be the first urban frontier to urban frontier train line.

[Tortuga]

GradualFuture;9038052]Damn fantasy poster's *spits on ground.

The disrespect!

I hadn't of thought of a train line running along this alignment. I suppose THIS would be a far future idea where the city has reached capacity in the core and the urban environment along with urban development needs extends out to absorb this area? This idea would be the first urban frontier to urban frontier train line.

Yeah. This would probably be 20-30 years from now.

[swimmer_spe]

I am trying to figure out after Phase 2 is complete, what will be left of the Transitways?

[Nowhere]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I am trying to figure out after Phase 2 is complete, what will be left of the Transitways?

Barrhaven Centre to Algonquin.
The one in the median of Chapman Mills in Barrhaven.
South Keys to Hurdman.
The bus lanes along the 417 to Kanata.
The Rapibus in Gatineau.

I think that's it.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

Barrhaven Centre to Algonquin.

North of the Sportsplex (at Hunt Club) it is just bus lanes on Woodroffe. Not sure if that really counts as a Transitway (there are bus lanes on city streets elsewhere in the city).

Originally Posted by Nowhere

The one in the median of Chapman Mills in Barrhaven.
South Keys to Hurdman.

Even after stage 3, these two will remain and are unlikely to be replaced any time soon. If you are counting bus lanes, the former actually extends to Riverview Park & Ride.

Originally Posted by Nowhere

The bus lanes along the 417 to Kanata.

While better than bus lanes on city streets, I am still not sure I would count them as Transitways.

Originally Posted by Nowhere

The Rapibus in Gatineau.

True.

Originally Posted by Nowhere

I think that's it.

Unless you are counting bus lanes on city streets, then there are a bunch more (some of which are only during peak periods).

There is also talk of building the Baseline BRT. It may not happen before Stage 2 is complete but you never know.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by GradualFuture

Damn fantasy poster's *spits on ground.

Joking, joking. You deserve a safe space for these.

I hadn't of thought of a train line running along this alignment. I suppose THIS would be a far future idea where the city has reached capacity in the core and the urban environment along with urban development needs extends out to absorb this area? This idea would be the first urban frontier to urban frontier train line.

It would be useful to connect the tech sector with the airport link. I would recommend less intermediate stations at first to maximize speed and service to important stations and transfers.

[Richard Eade]

I think that a Bank Street Subway with an airport connection has some merit, as well as the following changes:

• Create a Transfer Station at Heron and the Airport Parkway (Mooney’s Bay Station). Billings Bridge Station would not be the primary transfer station between the three lines but would provide transfers to local bus routes. The current Heron Station would disappear, as would the Mooney’s Bay station name, and the new transfer station would be named Heron Station. This could spur development of the Federal land around that area.
• Re-route the future Baseline BRT so that it does not go to Bayshore along Richmond Road, but, instead, continues west through Bells Corners to Moodie, where it turns north to go to the DND Campus. This would provide the ‘shuttle’ between the Moodie Station and the DND Campus. The BRT could, possibly, then continue west from the DND Campus, along a re-built Carling Avenue, to Kanata North.
• Extend Line 2 across the Ottawa River, on a renovated Prince of Wales Bridge. This would allow Carleton University students easier access to the SAQ – especially if the SAQ built a new large Warehouse outlet at the end of the line.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I think that a Bank Street Subway with an airport connection has some merit, as well as the following changes:

• Create a Transfer Station at Heron and the Airport Parkway (Mooney’s Bay Station). Billings Bridge Station would not be the primary transfer station between the three lines but would provide transfers to local bus routes. The current Heron Station would disappear, as would the Mooney’s Bay station name, and the new transfer station would be named Heron Station. This could spur development of the Federal land around that area.

I agree with the idea of creating some sort of Heron transfer station, but I don't think the theoretical Bank Street Subway should go there. Doing that leaves the intersection of Bank/Heron without higher-order transit. That area is changing, with the new towers on the north-west corner, and there is opportunity for more. It doesn't make much sense to swing the line over to Heron for connections, as those connections could be made at Billings Bridge or Walkely otherwise.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I agree with the idea of creating some sort of Heron transfer station, but I don't think the theoretical Bank Street Subway should go there. Doing that leaves the intersection of Bank/Heron without higher-order transit. That area is changing, with the new towers on the north-west corner, and there is opportunity for more. It doesn't make much sense to swing the line over to Heron for connections, as those connections could be made at Billings Bridge or Walkely otherwise.

It would be significantly more expensive to extend a theoretical Bank Street Subway straight down Bank street than it would be to follow the existing Transitway/Trillium line corridor between Billings Bridge and Greenboro. Yes there is an abandoned ROW, but significant portions of it have been built over and it never did go to Billings Bridge (it split closer to Pleasant Park).

As a result, the question becomes is the benefit of having a stop at Bank and Herron outweigh the cost of the extra tunneling?

[JHikka]

I get the benefit of both proposals. If I had to lean one way (in this fantasy thread) it would be to keep the line primarily on the Bank corridor so it can spur direct TOD and density along Bank rather than pushing it off and to the west. Bank & Heron is much more dense than it was five years ago, with more to come, and neglecting that by a KM or so would be a bit of a miss IMO.

I think Billings should be the major transfer spot but that's an aside.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I get the benefit of both proposals. If I had to lean one way (in this fantasy thread) it would be to keep the line primarily on the Bank corridor so it can spur direct TOD and density along Bank rather than pushing it off and to the west. Bank & Heron is much more dense than it was five years ago, with more to come, and neglecting that by a KM or so would be a bit of a miss IMO.

I think Billings should be the major transfer spot but that's an aside.

I agree. Should the Bank subway ever come to fruition, I would elevate the line south of Billings, maybe even south of the Rideau River.

If Trillium never goes downtown, the Bank Line could turn towards the airport at Lester and connect with the Airport spur currently u/c. The spur would then no longer serve Trillium, but Bank instead.

The City has always planned transit based on cost. If we're doing fantasy, might as well "serve" new areas instead of upgrading exiting infrastructure that's already functional.

[Kitchissippi]

The sad thing is that there used to be rails along what is now Glenhaven Private. Traces of ROW are still evident on google maps and almost makes a beeline to Billings before it curves into Lamira Street where it merges into the current VIA tracks. A Bank Street line could have used this ROW to get towards the Airport.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I get the benefit of both proposals. If I had to lean one way (in this fantasy thread) it would be to keep the line primarily on the Bank corridor so it can spur direct TOD and density along Bank rather than pushing it off and to the west. Bank & Heron is much more dense than it was five years ago, with more to come, and neglecting that by a KM or so would be a bit of a miss IMO.

If it is a fantasy thread, then why be limited to existing (or former) ROWs at all? You could bulldoze through any building you wanted to achieve your ultimate system. I prefer to keep my fantasies grounded on some sense of plausibility (even if still unlikely).

Originally Posted by JHikka

I think Billings should be the major transfer spot but that's an aside.

The problem is that the Trillium line doesn't go to Billings Bridge.

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The sad thing is that there used to be rails along what is now Glenhaven Private. Traces of ROW are still evident on google maps and almost makes a beeline to Billings before it curves into Lamira Street where it merges into the current VIA tracks. A Bank Street line could have used this ROW to get towards the Airport.

I mentioned that in a previous post:

Originally Posted by roger1818

It would be significantly more expensive to extend a theoretical Bank Street Subway straight down Bank street than it would be to follow the existing Transitway/Trillium line corridor between Billings Bridge and Greenboro. Yes there is an abandoned ROW, but significant portions of it have been built over and it never did go to Billings Bridge (it split closer to Pleasant Park).

As a result, the question becomes is the benefit of having a stop at Bank and Herron outweigh the cost of the extra tunneling?

While your route looks nice on a map, when you switch to satellite view and zoom in, you realize you are going under (or over):

• The entrance for a residence hotel (with underground parking),
• 15 multi-unit townhomes,
• a strip mall, and
• the rear parking lot and loading bay for several other stores.
• (plus there looks like from Street View (Sept. 2019), a new multistory building is being (or was) built adjacent to the ROW on Heron. I'm not sure how they will be using the ROW (if at all)).

That means cut and cover would be expensive in expropriation costs, boring would just be expensive (despite what Elon Musk says) and elevated would also have significant expropriation costs and risk significant legal costs from the hotel fighting against trains running a few meters from their windows.

Once again, I have to question, do the benefits of this route outweigh the costs?